Moraelin Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 "Keep your enemies closer" does not mean "escort them to their castle and leave them there. With an Elder Scroll too." though. "Keep your enemies closer" would have been more like, dunno, take her to the Dawnguard. Don't get me wrong, I don't really dislike Dawnguard, but I do feel that the beginning of that arc could have been less heavy handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nudedragon Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 They didn't design the game for you to BE a vampire hunter. You needed a mod to rp as a VoS remember? They weren't planning on that originally. Dawnguard is the first official content where you CAN be a vampire hunter. Instead of just quitting, you should play it out. You'll see that you do have options, but you can't kill her on the spot. Plus, she'll help you kill her own kind. You're rping, say you're bringing her back for questioning, or whatever floats your boat. The dawnguard fortress does have a torture room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) "Keep your enemies closer" does not mean "escort them to their castle and leave them there. With an Elder Scroll too." though. "Keep your enemies closer" would have been more like, dunno, take her to the Dawnguard. Don't get me wrong, I don't really dislike Dawnguard, but I do feel that the beginning of that arc could have been less heavy handed.I meant exactly what I said, in that keep your enemies closer does NOT mean take them prisoner. You befriend them instead, in this case you return her to her castle. It's not the ideal scenario for a Vampire Hunter, but then again the Dragonborn isn't just some slappy Vampire Hunter anyway now is he? Added: For the same reason the Dragonborn doesn't go all postal on Paarthurnax - just because he's a dragon doesn't mean he's the enemy. Serana never makes the first move, so why am I compelled to slaughter her? Pretty sure I'm a little more advanced in thought than the overwhelmed farm boy recruit. Edited January 2, 2014 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moraelin Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well, if you're playing some super-smart guy who also has the clairvoyance to know that she'll come back, after you just delivered an Elder Scroll to a castle full of vampires, more power to you. It wasn't really the character I was playing, though. Remember I'm also the guy who came up with Maxine in FO3... who thought she's "number one in intelligence" because that's the number she had there in the stats, and needed Brisa (a companion) to even operate the terminals for her :p Don't assume my character would figure out that I need to befriend the guys who just slaughtered the Vigilants, and attacked all major cities and killed people on sight. Half the vendors in Whiterun are gone because of the <bleep>ing master vampire attacks. I mean, not only they got Adrienne Avenici, who is outside, but somehow they caught even Berengar outside and killed him, and I'm still not sure how THAT happened. Would my vampire hunter character figure it's smart to befriend the people who just did such mass murders all across a whole province with no provocation? Well, no, he probably wouldn't think it out half that far. That's why he wanted to hunt them down in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Serana didn't slaughter the Vigilants, same way Paarthurnax wasn't slaughtering helpless people all over Skyrim. Somewhere, someone needs to make a distinction - I would just assume that the Dragonborn would be the one to do that. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should just leave things like that up to Delphine and Esbern - just kill 'em all and be done with it. The part that bothered me far more than escorting Serana back was that I was sent out alone even though the entire Vigil was wiped out...... In that case, I'm doing things my way - and in that case Serana had far more to offer "alive" to the greater cause than dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moraelin Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well, Paarthurnax had a bit of introduction, though. The Greybeards made it perfectly clear that he's one of them. If Paarthurnax had just appeared out of nowhere, yeah, I'd probably want his head on a wall too. I have no problems imagining I'd work with a vampire against other vampires. I made one of the Hellsing guns for NV and FO3, after all. I'm used to that concept. But it has to be a lot less heavy-handed than "take me home" and my character going, "ok". So to speak. At that point I'm really given no reason why my vampire hunter wouldn't want to stake her to the outside door at dawn and grab a bag of popcorn. "I have been out of the loop for ages" (paraphrase, not exact quote) or "boohoo, I have daddy issues" are not enough reason. Especially for someone who later basically tells you that her necromancy is based on trading human souls to some beings who'll slowly devour them... yeah, it's not exactly giving that vibe that she's not the kind of vampire my character would want to stake outside before sunrise. Bethesda could have actually given me a better reason than "I wanna go home". Is all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Garon Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) ...Bethesda could have actually given me a better reason than "I wanna go home". Is all I'm saying. Agreed. Especially when Dawnguard revolves around a seemingly "either - or" premise. When I first encountered Serana, I honestly thought that taking her home was the "decision" to side with the Vampires. That wasn't so, obviously, but the prelude to meeting Harkon seemed unnecessary and poorly contrived. Even for Skyrim. Edited January 2, 2014 by Lord Garon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosrex Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Yeah definetly would been cooler to have a 2 Path quest arc, 1) you go With her to the Castle and become a vampire, 2) your force her to follow you and bring her back to the Dawnguard. 60% of the Dawnguard quest arc could play the same for both sides, with of course different "sides quests" for each faction, Whne you learn to become a Vampire Lord with Volkar, you learn Killing techniques with Isran in the Dawnguard keep. When you go get the Blood thingy with the Calice in the cave for Volkar, you go into this cave and prevent the Vampires to take the blood and take the calice to put it away in the vaults of the dawnguard keep. Also i was dissapointed that there was no "Raid" type quest on the dawnguard keep when you play has a Vampire or vice versa..., with the obvious and chessy, but classic " Its not Over yet!, its just a setback!, we will meet again, and that time i will rip your heart out of your chest/ drive a stake through your wretched heart" and Volkar/isnar goes away to another secret location... Oh well, maybe in a futur mod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaki80 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Think of it this way, having Serana as an ally could be an advantage. She'd know all the weaknesses and hideouts of other vampires, so if she serves you faithfully, you let her live. If her life means the death of hundreds of other vampires, then so be it. Besides, the Vigilant of Stendarr don't just hunt vampires. They also hunt werewolves and daedra. Take Serana out to kill some flame atronachs and hope she gets burned to death if you wish, and if she survives, just shrug your shoulders and think to yourself, "I'll kill her next time." Yeah, give her the Dread Pirate Roberts treatment: "Good work Wesley, sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning." Another thing worth mentioning, when you first meet Serana, she asks you to bring her home, and when you do you get "rewarded". Now if you accept the reward, you're basically giving in to the Dark Side and becoming a vampire, but of course you can always refuse the reward and get kicked out of the castle, thankfully in one piece and not blood drained, and at that point you can go back to the Dawnguard castle and continue work as a vigilant of stendarr. Requiting new Dawnguard members, killing vampires, the whole shebang. Of course Serana will come along and tip you off on what the vampires are up to, and she'll tag along to help... this is where having a vampire for an ally would be an advantage liek I mentioned earlier. So as far as the role playing part of it goes, here's an answer: You've spent most of the game working for the vigilant of Stendarr, seeking out and slaying daedra, summoned monsters, werewolves, and vampires. You've fought for a very long time, and then one day you discover that the vampires have finally struck back by destroying the hall of the vigilants - everything is burnt to the ground. Now you wonder about Skyrim. Most of your vigilant friends are now dead. Your leader is MIA - you don't know if he's dead or alive. You begin to feel like you've lost your sense of purpose. Then you hear of the Dawnguard being reformed - an order of vampire hunters in a fortress in The Rift. Vampire killing is one of your specialities, so you go in search of it. You don't care about the conflicts between Dawnguard and Vigilants from long ago - all you want is to kill vampires to avenge your fallen brethren, and save Skyrim from overwhelming darkness.hmmm. maybe I should write a novel, lol Edited January 25, 2014 by amaki80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifteenspades Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I agree with all the Pro Serana people. If a certain country attacked my homeland, i wouldn't just go killing off everyone from that country just because they are from there, now would i? Substitute vampire instead of country. "Just because my home ( Vos ) was attacked and burned down by a certain order of vampires doesn't mean i go kill all vampires saying "Where is she!!!" The DG DLC gives you insight into how vampires aren't just these murdering, ravenous monsters that they are portrayed as. Serana didn't even get a choice to become one, and the process of becoming one was very traumatic if anything you should be feeling sympathy. Serana didn't slaughter the Vigilants, same way Paarthurnax wasn't slaughtering helpless people all over Skyrim. Somewhere, someone needs to make a distinction - I would just assume that the Dragonborn would be the one to do that. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should just leave things like that up to Delphine and Esbern - just kill 'em all and be done with it. The part that bothered me far more than escorting Serana back was that I was sent out alone even though the entire Vigil was wiped out...... In that case, I'm doing things my way - and in that case Serana had far more to offer "alive" to the greater cause than dead. That isn't exactly fair to compare too. Paarthurnax committed War crimes personally, that is part of the reason Delphine and Esbern want him dead ( besides there hate for all dragons ) so that is a pretty legitimate reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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