The Empire, Skyrim and the Thalmor. Solution, Resolution and Perspecti

[Drakescale]

Imperial vs Stormcloak thread was an enjoyable read, there's talk about right/wrong a side was and how things should have been, some even changed allegiance! But there were less of those who actually came up with a solution, a plan to overcome them. We saw how the Thalmor manipulated WGC to incite violence against the Empire. So, if you think the Empire were in the right and the rebellion wrong, what would you have done to rectify it in a manner that would have been deemed appropriate by both Nords and Redguard?

If the Concordant didn't come to pass or rejected halfway, what would you have done as TMII? What would your defensive or offensive strategy be? What schemes or ploy would you devise to derail the Aldmeri Dominion invasion? Stalemate with home turf advantage by the Redguard for example. In Psycological warfare, will you use the WGC to attract sympathizer and zealots to your cause? Not forgetting the Imperial loyalist within Valenwood and Elyswer ofcourse! We saw how the Thalmor used Land and Religeon to their advantage. What treaties will you make with the surrounding provinces? Imperial Nobility, High Rock's 5 kingdoms or maybe Argonians to bolster your already empty coffers, in short economics! What of logistics? Where will you get the resources for your endeavour? There's a lot of questions but so little answers! It's certainly interesting to me to hear yours! Everyone can criticize but not everyone can lead!

 

p/s: I'd really love it if battle strategy could be portrayed through maps and the like but that might just be asking a lot...

 

Cheers!~

[RighthandofSithis]

YEAH! This is my type of thread!

 

So, I'll assume that I am leading Skyrim following a successful revolution.

 

I would happily talk with the Empire, would even rejoin it on the term that Skyrim's Internal Politics are not interfered with by the Empire, and that Skyrim was placed in a position where, when the Empire does collapse, the aftershocks do not reach Skyrim. This could be done by demanding a large sum of gold from the Empire to rebuild and improve Skyrim's infrastructure. In return, Skyrim would pay tax to the Empire, imperial Troops would be permitted Garrisons withing Skyrim, and Skyrim's forces would come to the aid of the Empire if needed. Abusing the right to independent politics, I'd immediately begin talks with Hammerfell to find out where Skyrim's strongest allies are, and, if possible, create closer ties with Hammerfell.

 

In this scenario, Skyrim is part of the Empire, yet independent and strong. With ties to Hammerfell, we would be able to keep the Empire alive, but pressure it to move further away from the Aldmeri Dominion, and perhaps end in a scenario where it is run by one of its own client kingdoms!

 

If that plan failed (which given its idealism, it very well could), I'd move straight for ties with Hammerfell, while either appealing to the North Cities of Cyrodiil to join Skyrim, or directly annex them (after a while, that is. let the Empire die a bit first). in the case of bruma, I'd incite a Revolution amungst the Local Nords, if it hasn't already erupted, in the hopes of bringing it into Skyrim (as it is a key defensive center).

 

In the absolute worst case scenario and Hammerfell decides to leave me hanging, I'd focus on taking these northern cities for myself, and prepare for all hell to break loose. In either scenario, I'd use the additional income from these cities to rebuild and improve nordic infrastructure.

 

At home, the situation would remain the same either way, rebuilding. In particular, I'd utilise Imperial POWs and captured Thalmor Justiciars as a sort of slave labour force (In a rather loose use of the term), using them as cheap labour. In the case of Imperials, I'd have them build settlements which, when completed, they will be permitted to settle as Nordic citizens (ultimately adding to Skyrims agricultural output). In the case of the Thalmor, well, I'd be less forgiving. Think Cidhna mine filled with Justiciars.

 

In attempts to rebuild the army, I have an innovative approach. Training will consist of basic recruit training, followed by sparring with fellow recruits and eventually more experienced warriors. FInally, recruits will be put to the task of clearing bandit camps (under more experienced leadership of course) in an attempt to A. Give them a better feel for what it feels like to face an opponent in a life and death situation, and B. To help clear trade routes.

 

Markarth is a different issue. I would weigh up costs, and determine if it is worth wagin war against the Forsworn or not. if so, then i'd do as follows to try and curb their power:
http://i.imgur.com/diEgL.jpg

 

The Ridge between the Reach and Whiterun is crawling with Forsworn camps, and most notably, a number of redoubts. Controlling these redoubts provides greater control over the reach, and makes it virtually impossible for the Forsworn to conduct a conventional war. From there, I'd attack and occupy as many redoubts in the Reach as I can, notably Dead Crone Rock, Deepwood Redoubt, and Lost Valley Redoubt. The Karthspire would be taken, and granted to the Blades in return for them agreeing not to harm Skyrim or Hammerfell (but let their fury loose upon the Thalmor).

 

Of course, this military campaign must work with a civil campaign in Markarth itself. Greater welfare would be grated to the inhabitants of the Warrens, and granting Reachmen land in return for service may also be beneficial (although granting them land may backfire, causing them to revolt against Skyrim again).

[fraquar]

The current Empire would collapse, it would be a power vacuum. There is no way that Skyrim could willingly rejoin an Empire run by Titus Mede II, or any other Imperial replacement. They were at the heart of the problem that led to the rebellion - turning their backs on their member states for self-preservation.

 

This isn't to suggest that you can't have an Empire, it's just that it would be a long, drawn out political affair to reconstitute a new Empire structure. That would take years, maybe decades, if not an entire generation to re-establish. Old members would need to be courted and old wounds healed - that takes time.

[kradus]

Indeed, segregation is the worse option in the face of annihilation.

 

I'd rather play it safe myself.

With the stormcloak rebelion quelled, I'd leave the Jarls to their business and open recruitment all over skyrim, so as to bolster the legions in Cyrodill up to their maximum power. If the Dominion tried anything I'd have a position of strenght at least.

That's step one.

Step two would be to indirectly weaken the Dominion's presence in the continent. If they decided to attack hammerfell instead, all the better, as that would be a chance to come back to their good graces, by saving them from Thalmor onslaught. So either way, I'd have the advantage over the enemy.

If the Thalmor wanted to play the waiting game, that's fine too, I could just do what they did.

 

Valenwood is the way to go if we're aiming to cripple the dominion. I know Elsweyr is just south of Cyrodill, but their alliegeance to Alinor is a religious one, and how to expose such a lie properly is beyond me. So I'd go for the wood elves instead, they seem to have a reason to dislike Thalmor rule, to say the least.

I'd send my own agents, people of discretion, intelligence and tact, of which can be found in Cyrodill, to explore and seek out allies within the deep forests of Valenwood. Im lead to believe that with the purges and Thalmor elitism there would be many, like Malborn, who would be more than willing to turn against the dominion, but would not do so on their own. So, with a promise of alliegiance and freedom, I'd rally as much support from within Valenwood as possible in order to start sending troops in and securing positions there. Im assuming the forests of Valenwood have their how sets of problems when it comes to open battle, so I'd at least need native support in order to dislodge the dominion.

 

Of course at this point the white-gold concordat would be void, the worship of Talos freed, the justiciars drawn and quartered(cause i'd be the one starting the war, they'd have no warning. hehe) and civil unrest considerably leveled from the act.

 

In the worse case scenario, if a venture to valenwood proved fruitless, I'd simply wait it out a few more years, rebuilding what was lost in the great war, quelling any further rebellion and finnaly pull an 'order 66' on the Justiciars, do to them what the Thalmor did with the blades, and make my own set of demands. WGC torched etc.

[RighthandofSithis]

The current Empire would collapse, it would be a power vacuum. There is no way that Skyrim could willingly rejoin an Empire run by Titus Mede II, or any other Imperial replacement. They were at the heart of the problem that led to the rebellion - turning their backs on their member states for self-preservation.

 

This isn't to suggest that you can't have an Empire, it's just that it would be a long, drawn out political affair to reconstitute a new Empire structure. That would take years, maybe decades, if not an entire generation to re-establish. Old members would need to be courted and old wounds healed - that takes time.

 

if you were res[ponding to me, then i should say i wasn't expecting the Stormcloaks to rejoin the Empire, it was simply what i would do (and strictly on those terms).

 

However, perhaps the Empire could rebuild itself. But it would require an Iron fist to pretty much invade Cyrodiil to end Gang Conflicts, and to force huge sums of money from the provinces and cities to crank up the rebuilding project. however, such an approach is very volatile and could backfire, or prompt an Aldmeri Invasion (with focus on internal, rather than external, threats).

[Echoside]

Starting from the end of Skyrim onward, because I doubt TMII could have pulled it off. (The Empire has lost a lot of strength and creditability since the Oblivion Crisis)

Race: Nord

CW: Stormcloak

MQ Done

I would attend the moot and make claim for the position of High King under the right of being Dragonblooded as Talos was. If challenged by Ulfric or the others I would do as Ulfric did and claim it by right of combat as is Nord Tradition. Upon attaining the position I would immediately begin to reinforce and stabilize the region. I would send a note to the Emperor and his council saying that should they march on Skyrim they would find no quarter and that men and mer would be the least of their worries. Perhaps even going as far as bring the message via Dragon myself to reinforce it.

First would be the training of the Soldiers, making them learn at least one Thu'um (Unrelenting Force, Marked for Death, Frost/Fire Breath). I would then begin testing, challenging, and enforcing that training in combat by putting down the Forsworn threat completely within the Reach, find each and every hiding hole they may have and literally exterminating them. While this is happening I would begin to play on the Nords xenophobia, attempting to direct it more towards the the Thalmor's particular makeup(High Elves, Wood Elves, Khajiit) and Argonian's for their abandonment of traditional gods for the favor of Hist Trees, while attempting to paint the Dark Elves in a sympathetic light, maybe even going as far as to imply that the Argonian Invasion was a Thalmor ploy done because the Dark Elves would not join them. I would force the Khajiit Caravans to leave under the accusations of war profiteering and making sure that they understand that it's only my kindness that I'm letting them leave peacefully, should they refuse then they take the risk into their own hands as they will not be protected by Skyrim's law.

With this I would hopefully achieve a higher acceptance of the Dunmer and while still enforcing the image of a "True" Nord leader. With Skyrim stabilized and growing stronger I would start to reach out to the two closest potential allies, Hammerfell and Morrowind. Approaching Morrowind with offers of resources to rebuild and assistance against the Argonians in return for metals(Morrowind is traditionally rich in Ebony and Malachite) and an ally against the Thalmor. Using the same approach for Hammerfell offering food and rebuilding assistance in return for a alliance against our common enemy. I would then attempt to reinforce this alliance by bringing both the heads of Morrowind and Hammerfell to Skyrim and propose a joint alliance under the name of The Skywind Hammer.

 

With the Skywind Hammer Alliance formed, I would suggest to my allies as the first order of business being further fortification and preparation for the battle to come, reinforcing the defenses of key cities, harsher and joint training of our forces, stocking food and other necessities, promoting trade between us, etc. I would then approach the Stronghold Orc of Skyrim and offer officially recognizing their Strongholds as Orcish lands and as friends/allies of the Nordic people in return for their smithing prowess and any assistance their warriors would be willing to render. With trade between the three nations flourishing, our people would see an increase in quality of life thus furthering garnering public support of our thoughts and ideals, perhaps even placing myself in Skyrim's mind as a sorta second coming of Talos.

 

And finally I would summon Odahviing, asking him if he knew of any dragons who would be willing to battle with us. Perhaps even offering them lands to call their own and protection from my line as long as they kept from attacking Skyrim and her allies... I'm sure the Summerset Ilses, Valenwood, and Black Marsh would make lovely dragon homes. After all I'm sure my allies could easily understand the advantage of having Dragons as allies and giving them deserted areas of conquered lands to roost in. From there it would just be a matter of time before war and glory would be had. In time perhaps even a Fourth Empire would born with a new line of Dragonblooded rulers with it's seat of power being Skyrim.

[RighthandofSithis]

Well, Echoside, that is a rather good sounding plan, although I have a few criticisms of it.

Training the average foot soldier in the use of the Thu'um would take years to achieve, and you'd have to have virtually your entire force meditating for years while they attempt to learn it (leaving Skyrim undefended, and a prime target for the Empire, the Dominion and banditry). Of course, it would be a good idea to attempt to train a specialised shock force in the use of Unrelenting Force.

Also, while I'm not opposed to the idea of an alliance with Morrowind, I'm not sure if its overly practical. True, resources from Skyrim could indeed help them rebuild, however, I'm not sure what their population is like. If they can;t sustain a sufficient army, then it may be more worthwhile to annex Blacklight and Solstheim, and demand tribute from the Dunmer to help Skyrim herself rebuild.

And also, why hate the Argonians?

 

But that's not to say you don't have good idea's, you know what you are talking about.

Edited February 26, 2013 by RighthandofSithis

[Echoside]

Well, Echoside, that is a rather good sounding plan, although I have a few criticisms of it.

 

Training the average foot soldier in the use of the Thu'um would take years to achieve, and you'd have to have virtually your entire force meditating for years while they attempt to learn it (leaving Skyrim undefended, and a prime target for the Empire, the Dominion and banditry). Of course, it would be a good idea to attempt to train a specialised shock force in the use of Unrelenting Force.

 

Also, while I'm not opposed to the idea of an alliance with Morrowind, I'm not sure if its overly practical. True, resources from Skyrim could indeed help them rebuild, however, I'm not sure what their population is like. If they can;t sustain a sufficient army, then it may be more worthwhile to annex Blacklight and Solstheim, and demand tribute from the Dunmer to help Skyrim herself rebuild.

 

And also, why hate the Argonians?

 

But that's not to say you don't have good idea's, you know what you are talking about.

I would think that one word shouts could be learned rather quickly(especially with the right propaganda and motivation) and that whole plan would probably be stretched over a decade or more. They don't need to be masters of the thu'um just able to use some basics for an extra edge. Ulfric is what in his forties(?) and considering the time he spent in jail from the Markarth incident and his time in the Great War(30 year long war and he was POW of the High Elves) he still learned at least one word of Unrelenting Force(Based on implications of Torygg Death).

 

And from what I've gather from the game, many Dunmer are starting to return to Morrowind to rebuild(and many more would return upon hearing that their ancestral land is being restored) and a people who feel indebted are more likely to be open to suggestions favoring my views and policies. Not to mention the that Skyrim is home to a good number of Dark Elves, a lot of which are farmers(which make them supremely important to the war effort). Besides with one of the enemies races being High Elves, one of the most powerful magic using races if not the most powerful, it would be good to have skilled magic users to willingly watch your back.

 

As for hating the Argonians, it's not really hate just subtle manipulation to curry favor with the Dunmer and it helps give a reason for the Nordic people to shift from intolerance of Dunmer to even more intolerance of Argonians, an already untrusted and disliked race. Honestly their just scape goats.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Echoside

[LithiumPower]

I like this plan for the most part with reservations against the thu'um training for a number of reasons. Firstly, it would take a long time - Ulfric went to the greybeards as a boy, left them as a man and he only knows one shout, perhaps two. It wouldn't be practical to teach one word to every one but I would definitely encourage a return to using the thu'um as a tool of battle. Greybeards I imagine wouldn't be too keen on this but Parthurnax I think could be persuaded and that could get them to fall in line. Perhaps not every soldier can learn the thu-um but 10-15 years from now, I could have Tongue auxiliaries.

 

I wouldn't challenge Ulfric for the mantle of High King - I don't think there'd be a need. He listens to counsel (Galmar's, Jorlief's) and our goals align. People rally around him, he's charismatic and he can manage the day-to-day rebuilding of Skyrim. I'd let him deal with the Forsworn, the bandits, etc.

 

As dragonborn my first focus would be on strong-arming the dragons and this will not be an easy undertaking - dragons don't negotiate - you have to literally knock them down and assert your dominance to get them to fall in line - so I'll be doing that. They are I think the key to winning against the Dominion. One or two dragons aren't going to cut it but several squadrons will guarantee air superiority to me. They'll be my main bargaining chip for everything else.

 

Secondly, the dunmer. They have no love for the Thalmor, no love for the Empire. Skyrim can build upon a history of having looked out for them and I think with a little effort uplifting them we can win them as allies - which would be vital not only for the ebony and malachite but for the destruction magic. I would much, much prefer this to having to annex Morrowind and Solstheim - because it's better to be loved than feared. I wouldn't alienate the argonians especially neither would I concentrate on doing anything to uplift them until much later, once other alliances are secure. The cats I'd kick out - sic the Companions on them perhaps. Spies and traitors, the lot of them.

 

An alliance with Hammerfell should be easiest to secure. I might even let Ulfric handle this himself. He's already started talks in-game so I'd let him continue.

 

Instead I might direct my attention to High Rock, Northern Cyrodiil and Orsinium.

 

If the empire survives, I could negotiate an alliance but better I think would be annexation liberation of Bruma, Cheydinhal and Chorrol and support Hammerfell in doing the same for Anvil, Kvatch and Skingrad - that will leave Imperial City, Leyawiin and Bravil.

 

I would try my dardnest to ensure this is the theatre in the second great war. These cities are already trashed, poor and lie along a narrow corridor. If I could save the fertile heartland provinces from being stomped upon, that'll be perfect. There is a good chance, the Hist could be negotiated with to ally with us at this late stage. If so, that'll secure the eastern border and Bravil.

 

Once I've reached this point, I will try to stir up a "Greencloak" rebellion in Valenwood, maybe go looking for an amenable Mane in Elsweyr - there hasn't been one in a while, so if I could dig one up and make sure kitteh knows how to toe the line, I will have my claws into the Dominion.

 

If I can achieve all this, then it'll be time to declare myself the second coming of Talos and crown myself God-Empress in order to turn one archipelago into a glass parking lot.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Lithium Flower

[Echoside]

A hundred Nords able to use Fus alone would be a devastating advantage and whose to say the Dragonborn can't do like the Greybeards and gift his knowledge, especially since Thu'um is basically in Nordic blood as all Nords descend from the Dragon War Nords. This I can agree to disagree on.

On Ulfric I can't. He's already we'll intrenched in minds as a racist. With him as High King the Dunmer in Skyrim would start fleeing at some point and Morrowind's leaders would be much less likely to deal with someone who left their people to the slum of Grey Quarter and is a known bigot against their kind. Him and his advisers are also a bit too ambitious and revenge seeking to make full use of Skyrim's potential, Galmar's stratagems are the equivalent of a fist to the teeth and I don't think I've ever seen Jorlief do anything that would really matter. He would also further alienate the beast races, cause hey he let the Dunmer into the city he makes the Argonians and Khajiit stay outside Windhelm

 

On Dunmer, Skyrim has a much larger history of war with Morrowind over looking out for them. The Way of the Voice itself was created when the Nordic Thu'um Army lost at Red Mountain against the Dunmer and Dwemer. Which is why I used Argonians's as a bargaining chip, the Dunmer may have no love for Thalmor or the Empire(who left them alone during the Argonian Invasion) but they more or less outright hate the Argonian as invaders and destroyers. With the Nords already existing dislike of the beast races it would take little work to further turn them against Argonian's and shed a sympathetic light on the Dunmer(with the right propaganda). Hate rarely vanishes but is easy to shift with the right circumstances.

 

War with the Empire would be a pointless bloodbath that would merely help the Thalmor. The reason I left the Empire more less untouched in my plan is that they make a great buffer to help keep Thalmor armies away from Skyrim. Valenwood and Elsweyr on their southern border and Summerset right off the coast. Let the Thalmor forces slog their way through the Imperial heartland and when both are weak and tired crush them under the might of your well armored and trained forces, thus portraying your self as a liberator to the Imperials and death to the Thalmor.

 

As for dragons, with MQ done although it isn't directly shown, I'm sure a great many dragon fear and respect the Dovahkiin. After all you've proven that even as a man/woman your Thu'um is the strongest, I'd believe many of the dragons would fall in line with you for this alone like Odahviing does at the end of the MQ, which was one of the main reasons they followed Alduin. However, you're probably right that many would need to taste the might of your thu'um before submitting to your orders.

Coming out and declaring yourself the second coming of Talos would just draw detractors and religious distrust. Let the people come to think that and have them come to you with the title and humbly accept it, even further gaining support.