I need help understanding Skyrim's sneak mechanics and values

[SkylerModder]

In the course of working on a mod that includes changes to Nocturnal's Blessing, I've come across an utter lack of explanation regarding how exactly the various entry points and values into Skyrim's sneak system actually work.

 

The problem is thus:

By default, Nocturnal's Blessing works by adding 10 points directly to the Sneak skill. However, the blessing description describes the effect as "You are 10% harder to detect." This is where the confusion begins. Does this message then imply that every point of the Sneak skill equates to a 1% increase in detection difficulty; meaning at rank 100 you're "100% harder to detect"? I can't seem to find any hard data or answers anywhere on the web regarding this point.

 

What then makes things even harder to understand, is that the item enchantments to modify sneaking do so not through the Sneak skill but through modifying the value "SneakMod". What in the world does that value do? I can't find any answers on that either. I'm inclined to suspect that it works as a multiplier to the Sneak skill, causing the 'effective' sneak skill value to increase by % value? As in, if you wear a piece of equipment with the description "Sneaking is 40% better." would that then mean that your sneak skill is multiplied by 1.4? E.g., if your sneak skill was 100, that enchantment would make your effective sneak skill value actually 140?

 

Adding even more confusion still is the effect used by sneak potions called "SneakPowerMod". I don't even have the slightest clue as to how that would affect the system.

 

Then there's also the matter of the various sneaking perks, such as Stealth in the sneak tree and the vampire's stealth perk, which all make modifications through the "Modify Detection Sneak Skill" entry point that I can only assume means it makes a hidden addition to the effective sneak skill value - mostly because when I get these perks added to a character, the values obtained through the console via "player.getav" for "sneak", "sneakmod", and "sneakpowermod" all remain unchanged by the perks.

 

Is there anyone out there that can shed some light on these issues, please? :confused:

Edited March 8, 2013 by lobotomy0

[SkylerModder]

...anyone? :(

[AwesomeUsername]

The engine is math based on things like that so let's figure it out , if you were to have a 100 sneak av and! take a potion or nocturnal blessing it would as far as the engine cares give you a 100-and something sneak av. HOWEVER nobody done scripted that yets. So the change in effects stops at 100. As for the ingame effect description, it is true that every percent does make you harder to find , and theoretically you can be 100% impossible to detect. To test this go ingame to console and try "player.setav sneak 100". this will add 100 to your already existent skill level, but the effect will be that of a 100.

[AwesomeUsername]

wait sorry wrong engine use this : "AdvSkill sneak 200"

[SkylerModder]

The engine is math based on things like that so let's figure it out , if you were to have a 100 sneak av and! take a potion or nocturnal blessing it would as far as the engine cares give you a 100-and something sneak av. HOWEVER nobody done scripted that yets. So the change in effects stops at 100. As for the ingame effect description, it is true that every percent does make you harder to find , and theoretically you can be 100% impossible to detect. To test this go ingame to console and try "player.setav sneak 100". this will add 100 to your already existent skill level, but the effect will be that of a 100.

 

wait sorry wrong engine use this : "AdvSkill sneak 200"

 

I'm going to assume by your half-garbled and inaccurate responses that you don't actually know any specifics about how the sneak system works. I sincerely appreciate your attempts to try and help me, but I'm hoping instead to hear from people who actually know the answers to my questions.

[dkraz3175]

I'm sincerely interested in this as well. It would be great to get some explanations for things like "mod light detection", "mod movement detection", and even "apply sneaking spell".

 

I'm especially curious as to how that last one works. I understand that upon entering the sneaking stance it will cast whatever spell you assign from the the dropdown, but what if it's a constant effect spell? Will it's effects remain when you stop sneaking or will they be dispelled?

 

Also, what events signal to the game to know when your character is sneaking and when they are not. Obviously it's a state your character is in which the computer can recognize if it has specific parameters that define it, but I have yet to come across a papyrus event that applies to sneaking (or running, sprinting, jumping for that matter) which would allow me to create an effect that begins when sneaking and ends when not sneaking.

 

Any help in these areas would be greatly appreciated.

[ZeroSbr1]

Look in the comments section of this mod, they tell you a few values you can try to alter in the CK. I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but it may help.

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/9103/

[prod80]

Download SkyTweak | http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/33395/

 

You can see the values and modify them to your taste. Not just Sneak - but everything.

[dkraz3175]

Look in the comments section of this mod, they tell you a few values you can try to alter in the CK. I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but it may help.

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/9103/

 

Thanks for the link. There was a bit of useful info in there.

 

 

Download SkyTweak | http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/33395/

 

You can see the values and modify them to your taste. Not just Sneak - but everything.

 

This looks interesting, but I'm more concerned with making my own changes for a mod than I am in using a mod to make the changes for me.

[prod80]

 

Download SkyTweak | http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/33395/

 

You can see the values and modify them to your taste. Not just Sneak - but everything.

 

This looks interesting, but I'm more concerned with making my own changes for a mod than I am in using a mod to make the changes for me.

 

 

That's fine... you can edit all those values in a mod as well, but using that tool you can easily check & balance things so you don't need to open the CK each time to fine tune settings.

 

Anyhow if youre going to make a Sneak module it will be some work because any mod that influences lighting and shadows (not being an injector like ENB/SweetFX/RCRN) needs a patch because darkness and shadows influence detection. So for best workings you need module for Vanilla and Lighting mod (don't think it will matter which one since they all more or less set things equal within a certain degree).