FO4 - Deleting Items and Navmesh

[SJTheFire]

Hi guys, I have 2 problems at the moment that I would like some guidance with since I am a new mod author.

 

Firstly I have deleted some things in an interior cell. It is deleted in my game and all like it should be, but when I disable and enable the mod again some things appear again. How do I fix this issue?

 

The second issue I have is with Navmesh, I have no idea what it is or does or how I implement it. I looked on the wiki and I still don't really understand how to work with it.

 

I apologize if these questions seem stupid, but like I said, I am relatively new to all of this.

 

Thanks in advance :)

[YouDoNotKnowMyName]

Welcome to endless frustration modding!

 

About the "deleting stuff":

Read up on the pain concepts of "PreCombined Geometry" and the "optimization in FO4".

(One does not simply delete things!)

 

About the "navmesh":

Basically: Navmesh is what tells the NPCs where they can walk and how they can get from one place to another (and move through doors, ...)

There are some tutorials out there. (Look for Skyrim tutorials, the same concepts apply, because FO4's engine is based on the one used for Skyrim)

[Undernier]

As a general rule, deleting existing stuff is not recommended. It's better to disable them (which will make them invisible) by checking the initially disabled box in their properties.

 

As for navmeshes ... well this is one of the most important (and time consuming) feature of the Creation kit.

 

Basically, navmeshes tell the NPCs where they can or cannot go.

 

So, let's say you add a piece of furniture in your cell, if you don't edit the navmeshes around it, npcs will try to walk straight through it and get stuck.

 

You enter the navmesh editing mode by pressing ctrl+E or clicking on the navmesh tool in the toolbar.

 

Then you'll see all the triangles forming the navmesh. You can move them around, delete them or create new ones (with, iirc, right clicking on a vertex). In any case, before you try working with navmesh backup your mod ...

 

When you're done, you should always check your navmeshes for errors (menu/navmesh/check navmeshes) and there is also an interesting tool to test them to see if various NPCs could actually find their way around (Test navmesh in the navmesh toolbar).

 

Exterior navmesh add some complexity where you need to connect the navmesh between cells. Those connections appears as a thick green line between cells. If there is no connection, then NPCs will not be able to go from one cell to the other.

 

To create the connection you need to make sure that each navmesh points are aligned between cells and then use the finalize navmesh tool from the menu.

 

There are a few other options but those are the most useful and important.

 

Good luck!

[SJTheFire]

OH damn. So let's say I deleted everything... (which I did because I am an idiot) How do I undo it? I can use xedit right?

 

Thanks for explaining navmesh! I am gonna try and implement it into my interior cell tonight.

[Undernier]

OH damn. So let's say I deleted everything... (which I did because I am an idiot) How do I undo it? I can use xedit right?

 

Thanks for explaining navmesh! I am gonna try and implement it into my interior cell tonight.

Yes, you should have two options with xedit. I think you can right click on your mod and choose "undelete and disable" or you can find your interior cell and you should see the deleted records. iirc if you remove them from your mod, it should undo the deletion. but if you're sure you want to keep them disabled you could just use the "undelete and disable" option.

 

For the navmesh, I just remembered something that took me forever to discover:

 

If when you try moving the vertices around, you find that they're moving very slowly or too fast, it's because their speed is tied to the movement speed tab in the preferences window.

[SJTheFire]

This sounds like a headache. I will see what I can do about the delete/disable thing. You are super helpful. I will let you know how it goes xD

[SJTheFire]

When I disabled all of the objects, do I just hide them when I edit the cell? Because if I nudge them it means I break the precombined meshes if I understand correctly.

[YouDoNotKnowMyName]

When I disabled all of the objects, do I just hide them when I edit the cell? Because if I nudge them it means I break the precombined meshes if I understand correctly.

Yes!

If you set them to "initially disabled" you will break the precombines.

If you move them under the ground you will break the precombines.

 

No matter what you do, you will break the precombines if you so much as "touch" vanilla static objects.

 

I know, it is annoying, but that's just how the "optimization system" works ...

 

If you care about the optimization, then you would have to regenerate precombines and precombined visibility for that cell.

But that would make any other mod that edits the same area incompatible with your mod!

 

This is why the "precombined geometry system" is so annoying for a game that can be modded.

In a "static game" where nobody can change anything, it would be fine, but not in a moddable game where literally everybody who can use the CK can edit stuff ...

[SJTheFire]

So no matter what I do, I break precombines. Because I disabled all the vanilla stuff, added a new layer and added my stuff.

 

How do I regenrate the precombines? Apologies if it sounds stupid but I am a greenhand xD

 

Is it fine if I just disable them and edit my layer on top? I tested it and it works fine on my end.

 

Since I have a beast PC it's difficult to see about the optimization part.

[YouDoNotKnowMyName]

So no matter what I do, I break precombines. Because I disabled all the vanilla stuff, added a new layer and added my stuff.

 

How do I regenrate the precombines? Apologies if it sounds stupid but I am a greenhand xD

 

Is it fine if I just disable them and edit my layer on top? I tested it and it works fine on my end.

 

Since I have a beast PC it's difficult to see about the optimization part.

To clarify this a bit:

The rule "don't delete original stuff from the game" has nothing to do with precombines!

That is just to stop the game from crashing when another mod tries to make changes to that original object but can't find it (because you deleted it).

 

About the PreCombines:

Yes, you would have to regenerate PreCombined Geometry and PreCombinedVisibility (PreVis).

There are a few tutorials out there.

Just search around a bit, I can't think of any good ones right now, sorry ...

 

But yes, if you just TOUCH a object from the game in the CK, you break PreCombines!

 

 

Precombined Geometry is basically this:

The game takes all the objects and groups them together into one very big object.

Apparently that helps the game load stuff faster.

 

Precombined Visibility is basically the game figuring out what objects are visible from where.

So that the game doesn't have to figure that out while the game is acually running.

 

 

I don't really understand how this works in detail myself, but I now WHAT it does (but not HOW it does it ...)

 

;-)

 

I hope this helped you!

 

(I liked that CK mod making livestream that you did on twitch, by the way ...)

Edited January 3, 2021 by YouDoNotKnowMyName