Load Order or Mod Conflicts?

[Kichigai]

So my brother, after seeing this post here: http://kotaku.com/5961994/what-skyrim-looks-like-when-youre-running-100-mods-at-once

Came to me asking if I could make the game look even better than that, or at least just as good. Now I've been downloading mods and all that since Oblivion, but I've never undertaken so many at one time. Now the game is positively gorgeous, and there's so much content I more or less have a completely new game of 40+ hours of content, all well and good. However the main problem is the game is prone to lagging out and crashing, and is far from stable. I had BOSS take a crack at it, cleaned the files that needed to be cleaned, changed around the load order, and still not really seeing any improvements in the stability. So figured I'd come ask some modders that have a bit more experience then I. Here's my load order:

• 00 Skyrim.esm
• 01 Update.esm
• 02 Dawnguard.esm
• 03 HearthFires.esm
• 04 Dragonborn.esm
• 05 ApachiiHairFemales.esm
• 06 ApachiiHairMales.esm
• 07 BlackTowerArmory.esm
• 08 ClimatesOfTamriel.esm
• 09 Deus Mons.esm
• 0A Fantasy Music Overhaul.esm
• 0B JSwords.esm
• 0C SPIKE.esm
• 0D WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esm
• 0E Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp [Version 1.3.0]
• 0F Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp [Version 1.2.0]
• 10 Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
• 11 Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
• 12 Morning Fogs.esp
• 13 Rainbows.esp
• 14 Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp
• 15 LIAT - Sounds.esp
• 16 Natural Skyrim Rain.esp
• 17 StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp
• 18 Birdsofskyrim.esp
• 19 cao_goldbrand.esp
• 1A cao_goldbrand_WT.esp
• 1B Cat_mount.esp
• 1C CP Apple Trees.esp
• 1D DSpSoB.esp
• 1E LIAT - NPCs.esp
• 1F ShootingStars.esp
• 20 Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
• 21 CrowdedCities.esp
• 22 Footprints.esp
• 23 Footprints - Ash.esp
• 24 SkyRealism - Simple Save System - 2 min.esp [Version 1.0]
• 25 WetandCold.esp
• 26 WetandCold - Ashes.esp
• 27 SkyUI.esp
• 28 iHUD.esp
• 29 BlackSacramentArmor.esp
• 2A BlackSacramentDBreplacer.esp
• 2B Blindfolds_of_Skyrim.esp
• 2C Cloaks.esp
• 2D Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp
• 2E darkseraticheavyarmor.esp
• 2F DK_Armor_By_Hothtrooper44.esp
• 30 hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
• 31 JSwordsDistributionBalancePlugin.esp
• 32 Knight Of Thorns Armor.esp
• 33 LeftHandRings.esp [Version 1.3]
• 34 LeftHandRings - Dawnguard.esp [Version 1.3]
• 35 Medusa and Drakul Armors.esp
• 36 PowerOfTheGods.esp
• 37 SeraticHeavyArmorDark.esp
• 38 SilverDragonArmor.esp
• 39 Tribunal Maskes by Zairaam.esp
• 3A Tribunal Robes by Zairaam.esp
• 3B Unique Uniques.esp [Version 1.1]
• 3C Dr_Bandolier.esp
• 3D DeadlyDragons.esp
• 3E DeadlyDragonsArmory.esp
• 3F BlackTowerUpdate.esp
• 40 CastleGrey.esp
• 41 Deus Mons_WithNPCs.esp
• 42 LevelersTower.esp
• 43 SuperSkyrimBros.esp
• 44 Tame Beast.esp
• 45 The Fifth Gate.esp
• 46 Wyrmstooth.esp
• 47 Immersive Weapons.esp
• 48 dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
• 49 dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp
• 4A ClimatesOfTamriel-VanillaNights-Lvl-2.esp
• 4B ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp
• 4C Phenderix's Magic Evolved - Cleaned.esp
• 4D UBW.esp
• 4E DragonFire.esp
• 4F BFSEffects.esp
• 50 Duel - Combat Realism.esp
• 51 ElaborateEnchantments.esp
• 52 duel weild 2 hand.esp
• 53 The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp
• 54 race+.esp
• 55 3DNPC.esp
• 56 EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp
• 57 HothFollower.esp
• 58 UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp
• 59 UFO - Dawnguard AddOn.esp
• 5A UFO - Heartfire AddOn.esp
• 5B CerwidenCompanion.esp
• 5C Extended Slider Colors.esp
• 5D Animated Enchantments.esp
• 5E Purewaters.esp
• 5F PurewatersDG.esp
• 60 PurewatersDB.esp
• 61 WATER.esp
• 62 WATER Plants.esp
• 63 WATER DB Waves.esp
• 64 Bashed Patch, 0.esp
• 65 bladeofevilsbaneskyforge.esp
• 66 BoundArmors.esp
• 67 chfshimbuedsword.esp
• 68 darkknightarmor.esp
• 69 Dovabear.esp
• 6A goldendaedric.esp
• 6B Jotunheim.esp
• 6C kroniid.esp
• 6D Phenderix Tool - Weapon Edit.esp
• 6E Windfull Skyrim.esp
• 6F _pocketempirebuilder.esp

 

 

Any tips that could help figure this out would be appreciated. The game is still playable, but I would just like if he could play it without crashing every twenty-thirty minutes.

[myztikrice]

What does the first part of your post have to do with your second? All those gameplay mods don't affect the visuals.

[TonyTitan]

What does the first part of your post have to do with your second? All those gameplay mods don't affect the visuals.

 

Did you see all of the visual mods that he has installed? Or merely just post to post......and add nothing or offer any type of assistance?

 

@Kichigai - Skyrim Flora Overhaul is a MASSIVE resource hog. And even with the best of PC, will probably end up crashing it. The mod author pretty much admits to that on his page. So if your PC isn't 'all that'...I believe he has the mod in a lower resolution. Just in case you were not aware of that. But any added visuals are going to end up taxing a system....the lower end a system, the faster you will crash. Video card capabilities will also play into the equation...older cards will crash out/freeze up faster than perhaps newer. Heat in your PC will also kill you. So if you haven't cleaned the dust bunnies from your rig in sometime...get yourself a can of compressed air and clean it out.

 

As for load order vs. mod conflicts. I believe if you use TES5Edit, and/or Wrye Bash, they will tell you if mods are conflicting. And BOSS will give you a pretty accurate load order. I'm not saying BOSS is 100% correct all the time, but for the most part, it gets the load order correct.

[Kichigai]

I thought it was possibly his computer too, but he is running two 660 Nvidia, with over 16g of Ram, his computer it...well I'm glad I don't have it on my power bill, lets just say that lol.

 

The weird thing is, if it was his computer then it would crash when there was quite a bit stressing it yeah? But I just watched him in a Warzone, with two companions, explosions and spells everywhere, bodies making a comfy carpet as a small army trampled over them, raining, in the middle of the deep forest, and he didn't even stutter. Then he just walked into a random cave and went ker-plunk. So it's the caves? Had no problems, and then just crashed randomly in the middle of no where. Honestly the main reason I'm having trouble with this is because it's not localized around a certain terrain or even event, it just happens at complete and total random.

 

Thank you very much for the help though! Lets see if we can get to the bottom of this though, FOR SCIENCE.

[ripple]

Those plugins loading after the Bashed Patch, I'll wager they are plugins not recognized by BOSS, which needs to have their load order arranged manually, and not simply allowed to load at the bottom of the load order and override previous plugins with conflicting records. Can you replace your load order with a BOSS log (with the messages)? Include the list of plugins not recognized by BOSS.

 

Also, need more detail on CTDs and/or other issues experienced. How often are the CTDs? Do they happen mostly outdoors or in interior cells? Location specific? During combat, with followers, while casting a spell? Reproducible? Etc. and so forth.

[Kichigai]

Alright, here is BOSS log of Recognized Plugins:

 

 

 

• Skyrim.esm Active
• Update.esm Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
  • Contains dirty edits: 92 ITM, 3 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.
• Dawnguard.esm Active
  • Contains dirty edits: 607 ITM, 82 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• HearthFires.esm Active
  • Contains dirty edits: 171 ITM, 11 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.
• Dragonborn.esm Active
  • Contains dirty edits: 57 ITM, 8 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning. A cleaning guide is available here.
• ApachiiHairFemales.esm Active
• ApachiiHairMales.esm Active
• BlackTowerArmory.esm Active
• ClimatesOfTamriel.esm Active
• Deus Mons.esm Active
• Fantasy Music Overhaul.esm Active
  • Note: Outdated as per author's instructions. Please obtain the newest version here.
• JSwords.esm Active
• SPIKE.esm Active
• WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esm Active
• Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp Active
• Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev}}
• Morning Fogs.esp Active
• Rainbows.esp Active
• Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp Active
• LIAT - Sounds.esp Active
• Natural Skyrim Rain.esp Active
• StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp Active
• Birdsofskyrim.esp Active
• cao_goldbrand.esp Active
  • Warning: This file was released before the CK (07 Feb. 2012) and contains unexpected (or out of order) records and should be removed. (The quest is working completely fine, but I'll remove it if it's causing the problems. He hasn't accessed it yet though (I just ran through it when I was testing it)
• cao_goldbrand_WT.esp Active
  • Warning: This file was released before the CK (07 Feb. 2012) and contains unexpected (or out of order) records and should be removed.
• Cat_mount.esp Active
• CP Apple Trees.esp Active
• DSpSoB.esp Active
  • Note: Make sure you use Dawnguard version.
• LIAT - NPCs.esp Active
• ShootingStars.esp Active
• Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp Active
• CrowdedCities.esp Active
• Footprints.esp Active
• Footprints - Ash.esp Active
• SkyRealism - Simple Save System - 2 min.esp Active
  • Note: Only use one SkyRealism - Simple Save System*.esp (I am only using one, not sure why it says this)
• WetandCold.esp Active
• WetandCold - Ashes.esp Active
• SkyUI.esp Active
• iHUD.esp Active
• BlackSacramentArmor.esp Active
• BlackSacramentDBreplacer.esp Active
• Blindfolds_of_Skyrim.esp Active
• Cloaks.esp Active
• Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp Active
• darkseraticheavyarmor.esp Active
• DK_Armor_By_Hothtrooper44.esp Active
• hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• JSwordsDistributionBalancePlugin.esp Active
• Knight Of Thorns Armor.esp Active
• LeftHandRings.esp Active
• LeftHandRings - Dawnguard.esp Active
• Medusa and Drakul Armors.esp Active
• PowerOfTheGods.esp Active
• SeraticHeavyArmorDark.esp Active
• SilverDragonArmor.esp Active
• Tribunal Maskes by Zairaam.esp Active
• Tribunal Robes by Zairaam.esp Active
• Unique Uniques.esp Active
• Dr_Bandolier.esp Active
• DeadlyDragons.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• DeadlyDragonsArmory.esp Active
• BlackTowerUpdate.esp Active
• CastleGrey.esp Active
  • Incompatible with: UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp (Haven't been going anywhere near Castle Grey, and not sure why it's incompatible anyway?)
• Deus Mons_WithNPCs.esp Active
• LevelersTower.esp Active
• SuperSkyrimBros.esp Active
• Tame Beast.esp Active
• The Fifth Gate.esp Active
• Wyrmstooth.esp Active
• Immersive Weapons.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev}}
• SFO - Expanded Diversity.esp
• dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp Active
  • Requires: Dawnguard Compatibility_Patch. (Have Dragonborn-Dawnguard combo patch, as seen below)
• dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp Active
• ClimatesOfTamriel-VanillaNights-Lvl-2.esp Active
• ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp Active
• Phenderix's Magic Evolved - Cleaned.esp Active
• UBW.esp Active
• DragonFire.esp Active
• BFSEffects.esp Active
• ElaborateEnchantments.esp Active
• Duel - Combat Realism.esp Active
  • Note: Obsolete. Update to the latest version. (Dunno why it says this, I have the newest version)
• duel weild 2 hand.esp Active
• The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp Active
• race+.esp Active
• 3DNPC.esp Active
• EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp Active
• HothFollower.esp Active
• UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp Active
  • Note: For safe install need dismiss all your followers, save, delete all included mods, load again, save and install UFO. For safe uninstall or update see special instructions on mod page.
• UFO - Dawnguard AddOn.esp Active
• UFO - Heartfire AddOn.esp Active
• CerwidenCompanion.esp Active
• Extended Slider Colors.esp Active
• Animated Enchantments.esp Active
• Purewaters.esp Active
• PurewatersDG.esp Active
• PurewatersDB.esp Active
• WATER.esp Active
• WATER Plants.esp Active
• WATER DB Waves.esp Active
• Bashed Patch, 0.esp Active

 

And here is the Unrecognized Plugins:

 

 

 

• bladeofevilsbaneskyforge.esp Active
• BoundArmors.esp Active
• chfshimbuedsword.esp Active
• darkknightarmor.esp Active
• Dovabear.esp Active
• goldendaedric.esp Active
• Jotunheim.esp Active
• kroniid.esp Active
• Phenderix Tool - Weapon Edit.esp Active
• Windfull Skyrim.esp Active
• _pocketempirebuilder.esp Active

As for the CTDs, they're at complete random, you can be doing anything from fighting to quick travelling to reaching a new location. So not really reproducible, you'll do the same thing a second time and it'll work fine. However generally if he tries to load an auto-save that was in combat, he'll never make it past the load screen, it'll just stay loading for eternity. It does seem to happen more in the outdoors, but it does happen in interiors as well. I simply chalked it up to the fact that he's outdoors 90% of the time running around, so he's going to have more problems where he frequents more, but I could be wrong. It also rarely actually does a full CTD, generally it is a complete freeze of the game, and you have to shut it down using CTRL + ALT + DEL.

[ripple]

1) Cleaning: download TES5Edit from that link, follow the instruction on the page, and clean the plugins flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits', including the patch esm and the DLCs. He/you will need to remove identical to master entries and undelete/disable deleted references (the second one is more important CTD-prevention wise).

 

2) Maintenance: go through the BOSS log and address any error messages, for example,

 

 

• cao_goldbrand.esp Active
  • Warning: This file was released before the CK (07 Feb. 2012) and contains unexpected (or out of order) records and should be removed. (The quest is working completely fine, but I'll remove it if it's causing the problems. He hasn't accessed it yet though (I just ran through it when I was testing it)
• cao_goldbrand_WT.esp Active
  • Warning: This file was released before the CK (07 Feb. 2012) and contains unexpected (or out of order) records and should be removed.

Uninstall any mods with error messages like these, unless you are familiar enough with TES5Edit that you want to try and correct the error records yourself. And...

 

 

 

•  

  Fantasy Music Overhaul.esm Active

  • Note: Outdated as per author's instructions. Please obtain the newest version here.

Go through the entire BOSS log for other error messages I did not indicate here.

 

3) 'Rogue' mods: after running BOSS, plugins not recognized by BOSS go to the bottom of the load order and override conflicting records of any plugins loaded before them. Those plugins should absolutely not be allowed to simply do that. Their load order position need to be arranged manually. The only reliable method to determine where they should load is to use TES5Edit to compare those plugins with the other plugins in the load order to see if they contain any conflicting records. If an unrecognized plugin does not contain conflicting records with any other mods in the load order, then they can load anywhere above your compatibility patches (e.g. the Bashed Patch). If they do contain conflicting records, then you need to decided who should 'win' the contest of conflicts (plugins loading later override conflicting records of plugins loading earlier). Alternatively, you can uninstall those mods and not deal with all the aggravation.

 

4) What's the system specs of the PC trying to run this load order?

 

5) Has he made any edits to the game ini files?

[Kichigai]

Alright then, ran through your check list, took stuff out and what not. I'll have to run a full stress test through the game tonight when I get home.

 

BOSS didn't seem to find any problems with the unrecognized plugins. I suppose I'll just place them above Bashed Patch, if they still give me difficulty I'll place them at the beginning of the load order, if that doesn't work I'll deactivate them and see where it takes me from there.

 

System specs are as follows:

 

Operating System: Windows 7 64-bit

Processor AMD FX-8150 Eight-Core Processor (8 CPUs) ~3.6GHz

Memory: 16384MB RAM

Page File: 3046MB used, 29553MB available

DirectX Version: DirectX 11

Both Graphics Cards: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti

 

The only modifications to the .ini is what is required by both the ENB, (Which I'm using ENB Evolved) and then the Skyrim Flora Overhaul.

[ripple]

System specs looks up to par.

BOSS won't tell you if there are problems with plugins it does not recognize because it has no user submitted informations on those plugins in it's database, or did you mean TES5Edit? If TES5Edit doesn't show any conflicting records between those plugins and the other plugins in your load order, then you can load them above your Bashed Patch. You can also use the 'BOSS Userlist Manager' to set custom rules for them so their load order position will not be reset each time you run BOSS (but then they will not appear as 'unrecognized plugins' and you will receive no further warnings about those plugins, so be sure that those plugins are cleaned and 'safe').

This is a matter of opinion, but you might consider uninstalling Skyrim Flora Overhaul. I've read previous reports from users that they were experiencing CTDs resulting from this mod (apparently, there was problems with at least one of the meshes). I don't know if the issue has been addressed by updated versions of the mod.

Edited March 27, 2013 by ripple

[Kichigai]

Derp de' derp, I meant TES5Edit, yes >.<

 

I'll certainly keep that in mind. I'll take a little bit of time here and mess around, see what comes up. I'll keep you up to date and report in tomorrow tomorrow, or maybe when I get back from my trip this weekend, depends how much time I get. Thank you very much for the help though!