Infinite procedural dungeons

[ihatebugs]

I was going to ask some scripting questions with the intent of starting a mod, but then:
Procedurally Generated Dungeons

 

Looks like it's dead, last update was March of 2012. Was only a "proof of concept" but it looks like it got some decent progress.

 

Not quite a mod request as it's technically already kindof been made, but can we discuss the concept? Anyone here play rougelikes or dungeon crawlers before?

 

Personally, I would love a procedural chain of cells with randomized loot, enemies, and traps where you can't backtrack and nothing you drop is saved, you get a new re-randomized cell upon death (well, loading the last autosave) so you never know what to expect, and considerably more dangerous/devious traps than vanilla for a good dungeon crawler experience. I think it would go great with some of the combat overhaul mods.

 

Really kind of disappointed this mod went nowhere.

[ArtMurder]

I love the concept. Could be combined into other mods to give them a lot more depth!

[GrimyBunyip]

The bulk of the work is just designing the map for it really.

The rest is just some scripting to randomly open and close rooms by enabling and disabling walls or barricades or whatever.

 

The issue with procedurally generated dungeons is they require a lot of content to make them work.

You need a wide array of encounters, or the dungeon gets really stale really fast.

The dungeon needs to be huge, and ideally not a series of square rooms with monsters, or it will get boring.

You needs lots and lots of new loot, or you won't have motivation to keep going through these dungeons.

 

Anyways, I'd be willing to jump on to help if anybody wants to kickstart this project.

[ArtMurder]

Bit of a light bulb here, but with the Credo Armors just now comming up asd a resource, this seems like a great way to get them into the game don't you think?

 

I could see it becoming pretty damn popular - a respawning dungeon, constantly spitting out new armor you've never seen before? I'd download it, even if the file was huge.

 

Definitely needs some beyond epic bosses to throw in.... I am good at ideas for bosses?

[ihatebugs]

I thought about making something like this myself but haven't studied the linked proof of concept. Just googled and sure enough someone already tried this.

 

What I thought was making a bunch of relatively small cells with one or two "encounters" and a unique design.

 

-Each cell has some crazy unique design to it and a bunch of marked locations to spawn enemies, loot containers, and traps at. Traps and design can be particularily devious compared to vanilla, being made by fans. Stuff like a dungeon with no floor and all walkways to fall off, or with a ludicrous amount of flammible oil on the ground.

 

-Upon entering/loading the cell it randomly spawns as selected via scripting the enemies, loot containers, and traps at random locations such that you don't always know whats where if anything at all even if you've seen this cell before.

 

-Assuming no save scumming it autosaves between cells as there's a loading screen. Upon reloading the last autosave it puts you in a new cell with all new content, such that any reward from the cell you died in is lost and if you died from something "cheap" like getting knocked off into a bottomless pit in the walkways-over-a-bottomless-pit cell you will not have to do it twice.

 

-No backtracking, and anything left behind in a cell is lost (could make the carry capacity an actual game mechanic rather than an annoyance). With a new cell there's a small chance it will be of higher than normal level enemies with better loot, such that if you can't beat them you don't get the loot as you're forced to a new cell with new loot upon reloading the autosave.

-Would be way too easy to grind the dungeon for good loot, I think there should be a literal entry cost. Like you pay an NPC to teleport you in.

 

The bulk of the work is just designing the map for it really.

The rest is just some scripting to randomly open and close rooms by enabling and disabling walls or barricades or whatever...

The dungeon needs to be huge, and ideally not a series of square rooms with monsters, or it will get boring.

You needs lots and lots of new loot, or you won't have motivation to keep going through these dungeons.

 

 

A transforming cell I don't think would be the best way to approach it. Seems it would take much longer to design than a bunch of seperate cells and be more restricive as the "rooms" would have to respect spacial limitations of each other if they're all in the same cell.

Edited March 27, 2013 by ihatebugs

[GrimyBunyip]

 

A transforming cell I don't think would be the best way to approach it. Seems it would take much longer to design than a bunch of seperate cells and be more restricive as the "rooms" would have to respect spacial limitations of each other if they're all in the same cell.

I don't think creating separate cells is the optimal.

 

Because you would need to create X time per cell.

Not to mention, the cells will essentially be the same thing each time you enter it,

So gameplay becomes repetitive very quickly.

 

If you make a single larger dungeon, and change the layout dynamically,

it's very unlikely for a player to experience the exact same room twice.

 

Also, while the dungeon might take longer (say 10X time to make)

You get a lot more than 10 situation variants out of that dungeon.

 

I mean that's how all modern games do it these days isn't it? Left for dead for example.

[IsharaMeradin]

I'm not so sure about this, personally. The world is fairly static. Landscape doesn't change that much without intervention such as earthquakes and other natural disasters. Skyrim doesn't change either.

 

I would prefer to see the same layout but the enemies could be different and in different locations. Traps could be placed in different spots and not all set to be triggerable the first time thru. There could be room for such changes as made by earthquakes, the one dungeon for the Aetherium Forge quest does that. But the base layout needs to remain recognizable on future visits.

 

Those ever changing dungeon things only work for me when the game is first started and the layout is changed from the previous game. Think Diablo.

[ihatebugs]

 

Mundus is pretty damn unstable regarding massive changes historically. You're thinking of our world. However, just have the dungeon on another plane. Daedra challenges you to his dungeon in a reality he controls. You accept. Bam. In-cannon explanation of procedural dungeon solved.

 

edit f*#@ did it just delete my whole damned post with that last edit?

Edited March 27, 2013 by ihatebugs

[GrimyBunyip]

I'm not so sure about this, personally. The world is fairly static. Landscape doesn't change that much without intervention such as earthquakes and other natural disasters. Skyrim doesn't change either.

 

I would prefer to see the same layout but the enemies could be different and in different locations. Traps could be placed in different spots and not all set to be triggerable the first time thru. There could be room for such changes as made by earthquakes, the one dungeon for the Aetherium Forge quest does that. But the base layout needs to remain recognizable on future visits.

 

Those ever changing dungeon things only work for me when the game is first started and the layout is changed from the previous game. Think Diablo.

I always think Left 4 dead when I think procedural dungeons, because I think that game executes it the best.

 

They just block off paths and force players to find the proper path.

Additional enemies are also generated as the player progresses, instead of making it static.

[ihatebugs]

 

I'm not so sure about this, personally. The world is fairly static. Landscape doesn't change that much without intervention such as earthquakes and other natural disasters. Skyrim doesn't change either.

 

I would prefer to see the same layout but the enemies could be different and in different locations. Traps could be placed in different spots and not all set to be triggerable the first time thru. There could be room for such changes as made by earthquakes, the one dungeon for the Aetherium Forge quest does that. But the base layout needs to remain recognizable on future visits.

 

Those ever changing dungeon things only work for me when the game is first started and the layout is changed from the previous game. Think Diablo.

I always think Left 4 dead when I think procedural dungeons, because I think that game executes it the best.

 

They just block off paths and force players to find the proper path.

Additional enemies are also generated as the player progresses, instead of making it static.

Gah can't recover my post from the accidental edit delete.

 

Look: Support for a string of smaller cells also supports one big mega transforming cell.

 

Smaller cells can generate enemies as the player progresses and not be static. They too can have randomly chosen spawn points for things. They too can have randomly enabled terrain features.

 

When you force a path from A to B in a giant cell that has to respect the spacial geometry for other, you will get a lot of "seen the room twice" as there are only so many paths possible unless you can make an infinitely large single cell.

 

When you force giant cells, its harder to implement a few key dungeoncrawler features. Deleting dropped loot by loading a new cell, and losing out on special loot from a boss encounter by forcing a new cell on autosave reload.

 

If you supported a string of cells, people could more easily submit their own, and they could be packaged in "map-packs" of sorts to be enabled/disabled as desired.

 

There is literally no reason to only make one mega-transforming cell. Support a string of cells. Everyone wins.