Where should a desent Nord's allegiance lie?

[iceurface18]

Hey guys,

My nord character has been through most of what Skyrim has to offer including the Dawnguard dlc and Companion guild stories. He's brought an end to Alduin's destruction and has pardoned his friend Paarthunnx to allow him to lead the other dragons. As you can see I'm playing a good guy this time. He isn't racist towards anyone and sees a different future for Skyrim. He hates the thalmor really. I'm trying to figure out which side would be the lesser of the two evils because both factions are pretty corrupt. Here's what I think...

Imperials:

The imperials are very controlling of their citizens and have a strict set of laws. The imperials almost resemble that of a facist goverment. They also like to interfere into other people's business. They did agree to banish the worship of Talos and that doesn't sit to well with many Nords. It is mentioned in some books regarding the Great war that the terms of the White Gold concordat are similar to ultimatum by the Thalmor in the beginning of the Great war. So, that means that the soldiers who lost their lives protecting the Empire against the Thalmor was all for nothing. Furthermore, it doesn't seem like the imperials are racist towards anyone except maybe the Altmer because of the previous war. I also feel that Tullius is worthy of being a leader of the imperial forces and seems to do be doing a better job than Ulfric. I do feel that Skyrim needs the imperials to keep the thalmor at bay for the time being until they've fully recovered for a second war. The emperor is a total douche bag and isn't fit to rule Skyrim in it's current state. Bad emperors come and go so I mean we just have to wait awhile for a good emperor to rise to the throne or just overthrow the current one. Clearly, It really isn't the empire that it was in Oblivion.

Stormcloaks:

In the beginning of the game, I noticed right away that the Stormcloaks are revolting against the empire for a noble cause. Thats when I knew Bethesda was setting it up in away that the bad guy and good guy would be easily identified. However, as I started diving deeper into the conflict I then questioned my decision to join the Stormcloaks. THey wish to be independent, yes, but it would seem to me that Ulfric's only agenda is to actually usurp the throne and govern Skyrim by his own terms. I also don't know what the future would look like if Skyrim was under the authority of Ulfric? The Stormcloaks don't seem to be strong enough to face the Thalmor on their own, but the Reguards were able to fight off the thalmor to a standstill in Hammerfell when they ceded from the Empire because of the emperor's betrayal during the Great War. Futhermore, Ulfric doesn't show any empathy towards the Dunmer refugees or Argonians in his own city. Not to mention, he's racist towards other races maybe even the friendly khajjit which I started out as with my first character. The Dunmer and Argonians are treated like dogs and are totally undervalued. There is one Nord in Windhelm that sees the injustice towards the Dunmer and Argonians but I cant remmeber his name. Most nords would say that "Skyrim belongs to the nords!" but diversity really strengthens a nation in many ways. Plus I like seeing other races in Skyrim and learning about them.

SO, which side would be the lesser of the two evils? hmmm?

Edited March 31, 2013 by iceurface18

[dwellufool]

Empire- Bad on the outside. The Empire seems to be more obviously dying every day. There's bad people there, but then there's the wise among them who know having the order the empire has to offer keeps things from getting torn apart.

 

Stormcloaks- Good on the outside. Highly set on tradition and belief, mainly emotion-fueled zealotry in the face of an overlooming threat (Dominion/Empire) who want to strip them of the tradition they hold so close. Seem pretty short sighted on the Dominion thing, kind of a "we'll take care of that when it comes up" type of thing, whereas the Empire tries to think a little further ahead.

 

Neither is entirely right, neither is totally wrong, the big decision is whether or not you think your character would value tradition or the order of the empire?

[frogomatik]

for my Nord, the opening sequence made the decision really easy. Summary execution? No charge, no trial? I'm not even on your stupid list? OK, screw you guys, I'm going to frag your whole empire. I skipped everything to go straight for the empire's throat. DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR! lulz

 

edited to add: Trying to kill me without just cause, made it personal.

Edited March 31, 2013 by frogomatik

[gsmanners]

Playing a good guy means that you show restraint when necessary. If you can forbear joining either side, that would prove even more what you're character is about. Thinking about it as an "us versus them" situation is also a trap laid by enemies of order, and that only works to further the aims of the Thalmor (if that MK fan fiction turns into canon, anyway).

[jet4571]

I am going to ignore the civil war part and answer the title "Where should a desent Nord's allegiance lie?" first. First alegiance should always be with the family/clan. Second should be the Jarl. Third whoever is High King. All else is meaningless. If you roleplay that you are from Solitude then you play on the imperial side if you want to follow alegiance, if you RP from Windhelm you play as a stormcloak. Same with any other hold where you choose to RP you are from.

[Bhanqwa]

 

It is mentioned in some books regarding the Great war that the terms of the White Gold concordat are similar to ultimatum by the Thalmor in the beginning of the Great war. So, that means that the soldiers who lost their lives protecting the Empire against the Thalmor was all for nothing.

That's one side of the story, would it have been better if the emperor yielded from the start? He at least tried to defend the empire, and at the point of the treaty the empire was already losing, so getting the aldmeri dominion to accept the same terms as they started with was impressive from a diplomatic viewpoint and gave the empire a chance to recover.

[gsmanners]

 

It is mentioned in some books regarding the Great war that the terms of the White Gold concordat are similar to ultimatum by the Thalmor in the beginning of the Great war. So, that means that the soldiers who lost their lives protecting the Empire against the Thalmor was all for nothing.

That's one side of the story, would it have been better if the emperor yielded from the start? He at least tried to defend the empire, and at the point of the treaty the empire was already losing, so getting the aldmeri dominion to accept the same terms as they started with was impressive from a diplomatic viewpoint and gave the empire a chance to recover.

 

The Emperor is good at acting honorable, but he's really just a selfish old man. He proves that at the end of Dark Brotherhood quest. He seems to think that assassins are his to manipulate, and that just proves to my mind that he's a fool.

 

The Thalmor's strength comes from the fact that their leaders actually care about their people, and that's actually a strike against the Stormcloaks. Windhelm itself is proof of Ulfric's extreme indifference to the suffering of the people. That's just the sort of "leadership" that promotes the cause of the Thalmor.

[CandyR27]

To me, the Thalmor are the Nazis of Tamriel. Or like the aliens from various movies that go from planet to planet using up all the resources and killing all the inhabitants. Nord or no, I couldn't side with the Empire because of their affiliation with the blasted Thalmor. However, the Stormcloaks have some serious xenophobia. You'll have to decide which is the lesser of two evils. Nazi or Xenophobe.

[luzburg]

 

 

It is mentioned in some books regarding the Great war that the terms of the White Gold concordat are similar to ultimatum by the Thalmor in the beginning of the Great war. So, that means that the soldiers who lost their lives protecting the Empire against the Thalmor was all for nothing.

That's one side of the story, would it have been better if the emperor yielded from the start? He at least tried to defend the empire, and at the point of the treaty the empire was already losing, so getting the aldmeri dominion to accept the same terms as they started with was impressive from a diplomatic viewpoint and gave the empire a chance to recover.

 

The Emperor is good at acting honorable, but he's really just a selfish old man. He proves that at the end of Dark Brotherhood quest. He seems to think that assassins are his to manipulate, and that just proves to my mind that he's a fool.

 

The Thalmor's strength comes from the fact that their leaders actually care about their people, and that's actually a strike against the Stormcloaks. Windhelm itself is proof of Ulfric's extreme indifference to the suffering of the people. That's just the sort of "leadership" that promotes the cause of the Thalmor.

 

Sorry what? The Emperor may be many things but he proved himself to be both a pragmatic and a brave man. How he faced his death with courage is something Nord's would respect. the Thalmor are like Nazi's in one way at least, they are good at propaganda. I highly doubt its a peaceful and tolerant society under the Thalmor fist.

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

It took me a LONG time to figure out the Stormcloaks are the best choice. The Thalmor cast the deciding vote.

 

They're not going to stop at attempting to assassinate important people who might threaten their supremacy like the Archmage of Winterhold.

"Oh, Ancano failed? Never mind, then, let's let bygones be bygones." Yeah, right.

They're going to keep coming. And the Empire will not stop them.

What does the Archmage of Winterhold have to do with Talos? Nothing. That was a political assassination [attempted]. The Thalmor will keep pushing the boundaries, assassinating more and more political targets, and the Empire will continue to retreat. In the end the Empire is doomed to die, murdered from within.

 

The Stormcloaks will resist. They may also be doomed, but they have a chance. The Empire does not. They also have Talos as a propaganda tool. The Empire has inertia. No Septims, no Blades, no Dragonfires, just inertia. We all know what friction does to inertia ...