The Creepy Cull of Female Protagonists

[Tidus44]

 

Kind of wondering why this matters. Does anyone buy a game based upon whether the main character is male or female; their skin color; how tall/short they are; how old/young; whatever? I doubt many people say, "Ohhh, I'm buying this game cause it has a .... on the box art." or "I'm buying that game cause it doesn't have a male 30 something, brown haired, brown eyed hero.".

Actually, yeah. There are some people out there who would have some trouble getting into a game if the character they play as is someone from an entirely different gender or nationality. That's kinda the heart of the problem. It's that whole self-identification aspect I talked about several posts ago. The most easily recognizable evidence of this phenomenon comes from RPGs and other games where the player can select a given gender. There are those who don't see any issue in it and choose freely because they happen to want to see those particular aesthetic or mechanic changes that are related to gender. Then there are those who completely and utterly refuse the idea on the grounds that it would make them uncomfortable or find it hard to relate to that character. Even in instances where story and characterization is entirely up to the player, such as MMOs, there is still a quite significant stigma related to cross-playing.

 

Where it is a factor would be store-based sales, and usually in relation to minors (or the simple minded) who don't research anything, or old people who wouldn't even know where to start. And unfortunately those are usually the first ones who would throw a fuss over anything that might challenge their current beliefs. Work in retail electronics sometime, 7/10 people don't really know what they're buying and almost choose things entirely by name (based on what is advertised) or what is on the cover. And game publishers know this.

 

So because there exists a few people who are so insecure they can't play a game unless it includes a hero they can identify with, the gaming industry should change the way they do business and make games for these few (thousand?) emotionally and /or socially repressed gamers who get all oogie playing a female or male or whatever demographic it is they just can't identify with, instead of making games for the millions who buy and play the game for the game, not the demographic the hero portrays?

I'm sure there are some people who wander into a store such as the very young who get all excited by graphics or the elderly non-gamer looking for a game for their grandchild who picks up something that looks good on the box cover. The thing is, they are in the minority and when it comes to sales they are not a significant factor and do not generally matter.

But before throwing out a whole lot of SWAGs and opinion, I would think the publishers and developers rely on something more than your experience in retail electronic sales. It may be possible they do surveys and focus groups and look at sales and rely on the information gained there rather than asking sales people in retail stores to provide anecdotes about sales they have made.

 

The EA survey identifies; The top reasons people purchase games: Quality of graphics, interesting storyline, because it's a sequel and word-of-mouth. Hmmm.... wonder where the "because it has a female (or whatever demographic) protagonist" category is located?

 

The average age of a gamer is 30. As for females, the 18 and older female gamer outnumber males of 17 years of less. I have a really hard time believing that 68% of gamers (male or female or whatever demographic) are so insecure they have an issue with playing a game where the hero isn't the "right" gender or demographic.

I also note the sales of games are not going down, they are going up, and RPGs and Adventure games seem to be doing pretty well. Obviously, someone is doing something right.

 

The game Bioshock Infinite was mentioned in the video. It was released Monday, 26 March. As of today 4 April, it has sold 2.8 million copies with sales expected to reach ~5 million games (or about 250 million dollars). Obviously, there is a huge problem with the demographic of the hero shown on the box cover and I am sure everyone who isn't a white, 30 something male with brown hair, brown eyes and standing about 6 feet tall has failed to buy the game because they can't identify with the hero.

As an aside, the game is freakin awesome as is the story - regardless that Booker and Elizabeth are not the "right" demographic.

 

Gaming companies are going to make and sell games that gamers want and expect, not cater to a minority who have personal issues with the demographic of the game hero. Until they get an indicator that they need to change, they are going to cater to the sales, not the personal opinions of a few. Why? Because they are games, not social commentary, and the goal is to make money; not change gamers social awareness on gender equality or some other demographic.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Tidus44

[Vagrant0]

 

 

Kind of wondering why this matters. Does anyone buy a game based upon whether the main character is male or female; their skin color; how tall/short they are; how old/young; whatever? I doubt many people say, "Ohhh, I'm buying this game cause it has a .... on the box art." or "I'm buying that game cause it doesn't have a male 30 something, brown haired, brown eyed hero.".

Actually, yeah. There are some people out there who would have some trouble getting into a game if the character they play as is someone from an entirely different gender or nationality. That's kinda the heart of the problem. It's that whole self-identification aspect I talked about several posts ago. The most easily recognizable evidence of this phenomenon comes from RPGs and other games where the player can select a given gender. There are those who don't see any issue in it and choose freely because they happen to want to see those particular aesthetic or mechanic changes that are related to gender. Then there are those who completely and utterly refuse the idea on the grounds that it would make them uncomfortable or find it hard to relate to that character. Even in instances where story and characterization is entirely up to the player, such as MMOs, there is still a quite significant stigma related to cross-playing.

 

Where it is a factor would be store-based sales, and usually in relation to minors (or the simple minded) who don't research anything, or old people who wouldn't even know where to start. And unfortunately those are usually the first ones who would throw a fuss over anything that might challenge their current beliefs. Work in retail electronics sometime, 7/10 people don't really know what they're buying and almost choose things entirely by name (based on what is advertised) or what is on the cover. And game publishers know this.

 

So because there exists a few people who are so insecure they can't play a game unless it includes a hero they can identify with, the gaming industry should change the way they do business and make games for these few (thousand?)

 

Try about 1/3 of the entire male gaming population. You have to realize here, we aren't talking about PC gamers, or even those who even consider themselves gamers. We're talking about the lowest denomination, that group that has a tendency to buy a few dozen games a year and only play half of them, that group that has been driving console game sales, that group that tends to pre-order and rush out to buy the latest sequel to a game because the promo video was "so cool". The game industry wouldn't be catering to a market if there wasn't actually a market to cater to, and since this group tends to actually play the games the least, they're the ones that are the easiest to keep happy.

 

Even if there wasn't this group, you still have an issue related to plot and writing when using a female protagonist. Let's be honest here, if you have a game featuring a good deal of violence toward the protagonist, having that protagonist female and being beaten up or verbally abused by men twice her size would probably upset quite a few groups. Reason being that it might be seen as glorifying violence against women or conveying the idea that this is "fine" just because the protagonist is strong enough. And this is only one of many things that totally complicate the matter and potentially put the game company in hot water just because they wanted to have a female protagonist. If you have a male protagonist, you can pretty much do anything you want (short of anal rape) and nobody gives a s#*!.

[Tidus44]

1/3 of the male gaming population are so insecure that they can't play a game with a female (or some other demographic) protagonist because they are unable to identify with the protagonist?

Where did this 1/3rd statistic come from? This group consists of what? 20 year olds, 30? 40? 50? Who is in this group? You must have statistics, so quote the reference.

 

I'm also unsure exactly how PC gamers or console gamers or whatever it is are more secure or what the heck type of platform used has on game content. Are you suggesting PC games are different than console games - is that your point? I don't get it as the issue is about games, not platforms. Again, I'd like to see where the statistics come from on what the "lowest denominator" (whatever the heck that group consists of) does with games or whatever it is your point is about them.

 

Game companies do not care if someone plays their game or not. They care about how many games they sell, PC and console.

 

Do you really think the issue is about some small group of males being so insecure with them self they can't play a game with a female (or some other demographic) protagonist because they are unable to identify with the hero?

I suppose that these games;

Joanna Dark - Perfect Dark

Blood Rayne

Samus Aran - Metroid

Jade - Beyond Good and Evil

Cate Archer - The Operative: No One Lives Forever

Faith - Mirror's Edge

Bayonetta

Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Sheva Alomar - Resident Evil

Elena Fisher, Chloe Frazer - Uncharted

Lara Croft - Tomb Raider

Juliet Starling - Lollipop Chainsaw

all gained their successes from some other demographic than the 1/3rd of males gamers you cite because they had female protagonists? I'm pretty sure there are lots of others as successful, but these were the ones I saw in the rack by my desk.

 

And to be completely honest here, these female protagonists are pretty much treated exactly the same as if they were made up of some other demographic. They got shot, hit, beat and hurt exactly the same as if they were male. I'm not aware of other than a few games that crossed a line with female rape and torture, and yes they do exist and have caused controversy, but games where a female protagonist exists are pretty much the same as if they were a male protagonist.

 

Honestly, the reasoning for a generic male protagonist (and really, there are so few games where the player is unable to select their own name and gender) is how about there is an issue with people being completely anal retentive when it comes to a female protagonist because they would then have to admit;

Wow, we have a female who is violent, blood thirsty and sex crazed as a male, "Look how she chops/shoots that bad guys head off, and then seduces her cute male companion; isn't she a strong independent woman? Look daughter, a wonderful role model for you. Yes mama, when I grow up I'm gonna be a violent killer and have sex with every guy I have an adventure with and be a hero. I'll make you proud mama!"

 

For some reason I have a real problem in believing 17 year old males have a concern with this scenario and tend to think the reasoning for so few female (or other demographic) protagonists has more to do with the publisher's prejudices than those gamers hold. Really, I doubt there is very many gamers who even care - again given the statistic that they buy games based upon pretty much any reason other than who the protagonist is.

[JimboUK]

If this was a non issue then why are publishers pressuring developers to drop or hide female characters? are they listening to that vocal minority of idiots we hear from all to often around here? the ones who scream "Anime!!" or "You gay, derp!!" at anything to do with a female character? When developers are being pressured into including characters dictated by a focus group rather than the characters they actually want then something is very wrong, video game creation is still a creative process and there should be no place for focus groups or marketing twonks.

[Ahvaren]

If this was a non issue then why are publishers pressuring developers to drop or hide female characters? are they listening to that vocal minority of idiots we hear from all to often around here? the ones who scream "Anime!!" or "You gay, derp!!" at anything to do with a female character? When developers are being pressured into including characters dictated by a focus group rather than the characters they actually want then something is very wrong, video game creation is still a creative process and there should be no place for focus groups or marketing twonks.

 

While video game creation is a creative process, the main focus of a video game is to make money. If a video game cannot pay for itself and make a decent profit, all those hours crafting unique and compelling storylines and characters are wasted for the company (sometimes, to the tune of putting them out of business). Of course there is going to be market catering for expensive games.

 

This thread has already established that there's quite a few people that don't look at the demographics of the main character when choosing a game. That's nice. That also means that companies don't have to cater to you in that category. You aren't the one kicking up a fuss if a female protagonist is released (or causing the developers/marketing department to fear you'll kick up a fuss). You, literally, don't care what they do with the protagonist, as long as it's a good game with good graphics/plot/mechanics/etc. A significant market share obviously does care, though, and why would the company throw away those customers in favor of customers who weren't leaving anyway?

 

The only way this would change is if a significant fuss starts being kicked up every time a blatantly white-male game is released, modern video game design gets so cheap that making a game that doesn't sell well isn't that much of a threat financially, or the 'vocal minority' market share disappears. I think all of those are unlikely.

 

There's always indie games and mods, though, for those interested in games that don't cater to a market as much.

 

Edit: The same is true for games that could have included a female option, but didn't. The question asked is: will the cost of voicing her, modelling, changing the storyline in certain places, voicing the storyline and pronoun changes be payed for in extra sales? The answer for that seems to be no. If adding a female option (which can be expensive) doesn't cause a significant rise in sales, why, from a financial standpoint, would you do it?

 

I'm also not saying I agree with this.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Ahvaren

[Tidus44]

What Ahvaren said...

Electronic Entertainment Design and Research (EEDAR) is one, and likely the most listened to, research groups looking at games. They look at a range of aspects from violence and objectification to whatever it is games portray or include that raises controversy or questions. They did look to see why so few games have exclusively a female protagonist and what they determined was that there is a sense in the industry that games with exclusively female heroes won’t sell.

However, in 2012 they looked at 669 popular action, shooter, and role-playing games and found; 24 (4%) had exclusively a female protagonist and 300 (45%) provided the option of selecting either a male or female protagonist. Games that included the option of selecting a hero obtained better scores from gamers, but the ones with male only protagonists sold better.

A point raised as well was that many popular games tend to be set in situations that involve traditional male roles (combat in a war zone), where few or even no females are present at all in the game or there is no specific protagonist. Should one complain that Madden NFL or Batman Arkham City or The Sims didn't have a female protagonist? For some reason, I'm sure there is some dimbulb out there who is.

 

Why I see this as a non-issue is, studies over the past few years identify that gamers do not select games based upon the demographic of the protagonist, but on other aspects, and there is as likely only a very small minority of gamers who get upset because a game doesn't have a female protagonist as there is a very small minority who are upset when a game does have a female protagonist. The thing is, both sides are a very small minority. I see no problem with a game developer making a game and selecting their protagonist based on what they feel is going to make their game sell. The market will tell them if they are right or wrong. And right now the majority of the market doesn't seem to care one way or the other what demographic the protagonist represents. They just want a good game.

 

Jim Sterling's little rant is unfounded and hysterical (like most of the work he does). EEDAR has identified a growing trend over the last few years (since 2008) of seeing more games with female protagonists and companies creating groups, such as UbiSoft's Frag Dolls, to create games with female roles that are not objectified or sexualized and female protagonists. I take it by your suggestion that developers should not be using focus groups or whatever to influence games, that you would advocate game companies should disband these groups as well so they do not interfere with the creative process in developing games? I think that would be a mistake.

[MistTiger]

To All: I agree with everything that Vagrant0 states above in his post which is #10. But would like to add a few more points.

 

1. In the US, there exists an almost fanatical desire to self-flagellate ourselves for both perceived and real moral and sexist deviations. Right or wrong, an increase of females in game advertising and semi-clothed female characters is going to draw the swift ire of sexist watchdog groups screaming about female exploitation. Just remember Tipper Gore and her attempt to control content in the music industry. Now imagine that fervor applied to the US gaming industry for sexual exploitation. If you weren't around at that time, just look it up to see a modern day witch hunt.

 

2. The modding community has released a flood of female character options and companions compared to that released for males. Why would any red-blooded male want to look at Jericho's ugly face when he can admire Brooke, Sydney, and a host of other females while they deal death to anything that pisses him off. LOL

 

3. Gaming companies exist to make money. Now there is a lot of pride in workmanship that goes into the games out there, but if you don't make money, you don't usually stay in business. Therefore, a game company must appeal to its majority target audience to sell their games over those of other companies. That target audience appears to be primarily male. Vagrant0's third point above is absolutely critical in understanding how games are sold. Look at the Skyrim advertising. I walked into a game store to see a helmed man with a huge axe staring at me. Now, I would have probably purchased the game right then if I had seen the same sized figure of a voluptuous woman in a chainmail micro bikini, but I would have had to fight my way through a feminist picket line to do it. I haven't seen a lot of games out there that do not allow one to play a female character if you want, but I am not into this genre of games as deep as many of you. In addition, the gaming companies must be careful not to garner negative attention for their games from special interest groups. An example is the negative publicity that D&D has gotten over the years for causing everything from murders and crime to the next ice age if people keep playing them.

 

4. Most people don't really listen to advertising anyway. How many times have you sat mesmerized through the commercials on TV? You probably just got up and got something to eat or went to the restroom. We look at most advertising as an annoyance. Isn't one of the perks to being premium not to have to look at advertising? I am sure that all of you out there rushed out and bought all your games based on a magazine or computer ad. Right!?! Gaming companies have a very short amount of time to grab your attention with advertising. Considering some of the presale letdowns and disasters in the past (MOO3 comes to mind as the worst game ever in history), most of us are now wary of putting down our hard earned cash on a possible dud. I personally will not buy a game until it has been out at least 6 months. The initial bugs are usually fixed and the gaming community has passed judgement on it.

 

Bottom line: Most gaming companies allow their players the freedom of choice on the gender of their character and that is what is important. I don't purchase a game solely on the ability to play a character of either gender and quite frankly that doesn't even enter the decision matrix. I don't mind seeing Laura Croft on the box of Tomb Raider, but I'm not going to buy a game purely because she's there or in the game. If the game engine and coding sucks, it does not matter who is the protagonist.

 

Just my Opinion!!!!! Cheers!!! V/R MistTiger

[rizon72]

I guess I don't see this as a problem. Most games that I play you can choose either male or female. The last game I played (outside of the call of duty/battlefield games) that did not allow me to choose either male or female, was Star Wars, Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast, which you had to play Kyle Katarn.

[pseudobio]

I guess I must be the odd-man out. I actually do make my gaming decisions based on the myriad of race and gender selections possible in the game........one of the reasons I wasn't a huge fan of Dragon Age 2 (you had to be human). I like going through the game multiple times with different race and different gender choices each go-through. However, as to the topic question, the posters who posited that the major target group is teen males, and that they are the primary buyers of games has always been true, even before the advent of computer games. To these boys, women are background eye-candy, not protagonists. It was as true for D&D in 1978 as it is for Skyrim in 2013. Young boys tend to be most interested in action stories and games similar to Beowulf , the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles, GI Joe, and the Zombie apocalypse genre of games, so gaming companies naturally cater to them. Sad, really, but that is what their hormones are doing to color their views on games.

 

Point is, no matter how creative the programmers and artists in the game development team for a particular game are, they have to sell the game also, and teen boys buy games like no other target group.

[Boaresa]

2. The modding community has released a flood of female character options and companions compared to that released for males.

Seriosly, 99.9% of these things are for people playing around with a virtual barbie doll. Hairspray hairstyles, bikini armors and so on.

 

You wanna know why there ain't much female protagonists? Because its unreliable. In most of the games the protagonists is in the typical role of a warrior, woman ain't unreliable in such a role. But anyway goes it more and more this way. In Skyrim, for both DLCs Dawnguard and Dragonborn the person who is necessary for your ongoing and helping you is a chick. First the Vampire chick, than that ultra masculine valkyre from the skaal village. And who of you had seen the new Tomb Raider game? I mean, come on! I this game the men are cowardly, traitors, evil, cruel or the calm big brother type or daddy figure, but helpless without warrior princes Lara to aid them.

Imagine Max Payne would be a woman. Its all unreliable because women, no matter what time, didn't do great things at all. Never. They never invented things, they never won wars, they never rescued people, they didn't prevent catastrophes, nothing of this at all. Even their sports deal with lesser requirements than the real sports. So what would make a woman a better protagonist than a man?