Using Other Modder's Work In Your Mod

[Calzien]

This is a question I've been pondering about... There's a specific mod on the Skyrim Nexus here that I want to include as fixes for my tailoring mod once I've completed it. However I'm unable to get ahold of the mod author (They may be inactive?) to request permission. I've checked their permissions for it and they haven't set any. So this is what I want to ask, providing I make certain I credit the original author and provide a link when I'm done to the original mod would it be okay to include it since there are no permissions set or should I just leave it as a required download for my mod to work?

The mod in question is the Ulfric's Clothes - For Women mod. Generally I will only be using the textures and meshes from it and nothing more.

Edited April 3, 2013 by SamusKnight2K

[Lisnpuppy]

No...just because an author didn't set a permission is not permission to use. You must get permission to use the assets.

[Calzien]

Fair enough, but on that same mention is it also prohibited to make patches/mods that rely on other people's work even if it's listed as a required download to function? Honestly I haven't ever really created a mod before that used an author's work included in it. There's things I've seen I've wanted to make patches or compatibility mods for but I wasn't ever certain if that's a big no-no as well. If it is I'll just remove it from my mod then before I upload when it's complete. Thanks for the information.

 

Asking before I go ahead and do it and get in trouble is why I made this thread, I don't want to get accused of stealing someone else's work or doing something I shouldn't. Just truthfully I was confused as to what is okay and what isn't.

Edited April 4, 2013 by SamusKnight2K

[dwiss]

I think its simple - is your mod depending on his/her mod or the other way around? If your mod works on top of the other - then make it a required mod explaining that your mod is just expanding the possibilities of the required one. Your mod would be an optional component and not disturbing the original one.

 

If its a kind of patch - you fix stuff that is actually not working in the existing mod - make an unofficial patch to it and name it accordingly and also state that this is only valid until the original owner takes over again. 'Not working' in the original means its already there and broken due to newer skyrim versions - just because its not working as someone would like it to work is something different.

Edited April 4, 2013 by dwiss

[Calzien]

I think its simple - is your mod depending on his/her mod or the other way around? If your mod works on top of the other - then make it a required mod explaining that your mod is just expanding the possibilities of the required one. Your mod would be an optional component and not disturbing the original one.

 

If its a kind of patch - you fix stuff that is actually not working in the existing mod - make an unofficial patch to it and name it accordingly and also state that this is only valid until the original owner takes over again. 'Not working' in the original means its already there and broken due to newer skyrim versions - just because its not working as someone would like it to work is something different.

Thanks for the info! Greatly appreciated. Basically my mod would just link the female versions of Ulfric's attire to the textures and meshes used in Saratje's mod, without their mod in place wearing them on a female wouldn't show any meshes or textures. That's what I mean by making it required. Alternatively and I've thought about this as well, is to extract the original textures and meshes the vanilla game uses, renaming them with the same file structure and names that Saratje's mod uses so even if the user doesn't download that mod it isn't dependent on it at all but rather has support in place for them without the user having to make a patch themselves or mess with anything.

 

They just have to download and install the meshes and textures themselves from Saratje's mod and it's done. As for uncertainties it wasn't if making a patch was allowed, but rather if a mod author's permission is required to even upload it. For example... Say a user found a mod they liked, but it conflicted with another mod they use. So they make a patch that calls upon the .esp files (Making them masters for that mod to work.) thus making them compatible. Now nobody else has uploaded a compatibility patch for those two mods to work nicely together, so that user decides to upload it.

 

In that example, would that be allowed or is that against rules? While it doesn't actually USE the assets (IE the user to make use of both mods still have to download each one separately or they won't work period.) I'm not sure if that'd still qualify as using another mod author's assets. That's just what I'm trying to get clarification on. I have absolutely no concerns telling the user if they "want to use X feature they need to download Y mod" if that's what it takes, but sometimes an author cannot be reached (As in my case here it seems.) so to make it easier for the user the mod author might do the work for them but say they still need to download the original or else it won't work.

 

But again if uploading any kind of mod that makes ANY kind of reference to another mod's work without getting permission is against those rules then I understand and will remove it before upload. Personally I'm making this mod primarily for my own use but I thought I should at least try and share it with anyone that may like it as well.

Edited April 4, 2013 by SamusKnight2K

[IsharaMeradin]

You shouldn't patch anyone else's mods without their permission. if you have to have a mod set as a required parent, you need their permission. Why? You are knowingly changing how their mod works.

 

If all you want are access to the meshes and textures without modifying them,

-- Make your mod without any of their items

-- Make sure the meshes & textures from the other mod are loose in your data folder. DO NOT CHANGE THEIR FOLDER STRUCTURE!!!

-- Make a separate plugin with your mod as a parent and then point to the meshes & textures from the other mod.

-- Package your separate plugin. DO NOT INCLUDE THE TEXTURES AND MESHES FROM THE ORIGINAL MOD!!!

-- On your description page & readme state that the optional plugin requires the original mod for textures and meshes otherwise it will not work.

 

In that manner you are not including their assets in your mod. The original mod must be installed. This is the same technique used to utilize stock meshes and textures on new items. With the folder structure unchanged and the original mod installed your forms will be able to recognize the meshes and textures.

 

However, even doing that it is preferred to get the author's permission. You would at least have the protection of being able to remove just the single optional file if asked by the author or by staff. Tho it would be nice to get a ruling by the moderator staff before using the process I outlined above. I certainly wouldn't want to suggest doing something that would get another in trouble.

 

I have found in my asking for permission to use assets from other mods that it seems to go over easier if you already have a basic version of your mod available for them to look over. When you only have an idea and nothing for them to look at, they can be skeptical if they do not understand the concept of your mod. With that in mind you may get a response if you did go ahead and upload your mod without their assets and then ask about utilizing their assets as an addon or something. This would done with the same process described above, the execption being that you waited for their response after sharing the initial version without their assets.

 

fyi -- If you check the forum profile of the author of the mod you linked you will notice that they were online within the last couple weeks. You should give them some time to respond. As far as their permissions, it seems that they chose to set their own and did not write anything in. The default non-permission entries are not showing as they do on other mods. It could be that they thought by disabling the default non-permission entries that it meant it was free for use. Unfortunately that isn't how it is to be interpreted on the Nexus. An author must state clearly that the mod is free to use or permission is granted under certain scenarios, etc..

 

===========================

And you replied to dwiss while I was typing all that up...

 

Alternatively and I've thought about this as well, is to extract the original textures and meshes the vanilla game uses, renaming them with the same file structure and names that Saratje's mod uses so even if the user doesn't download that mod it isn't dependent on it at all but rather has support in place for them without the user having to make a patch themselves or mess with anything.

That should be acceptable, again a moderator's statement would be nice in this regard.

 

If the other mod uses a BSA for the assets you would need to pack yours in a BSA and require that it be above the other mod so that the other mod gets priority. If the other mod uses loose files, then you can pack yours in a BSA or leave it loose. Just state that if they use the other mod to install it after so that it may overwrite and have it's assets in your mod.

[dwiss]

I think there is a simple misunderstanding in the usage of the word 'using' here. Each mod consists of basically 3 parts - meshes, textures and an esp - in some cases you can add script files to that. That whole thing is a package so to say. Changing and modifying that for your personal usage is one thing - publishing those adjustments - thats what i call them as there is no real creative work in it - is another thing. Its a bit like mashups - you take bits and pieces left and right and just repackage. In a mashup you basically leave assets as they where in the original and just create a new combination of those single parts. But those are real assets being moved around. Creating a mod that actually requires for another mod to be active is a totally different thing - you dont even touch the assets. So your mod wont even work if the other mod isnt around or active - so no sweat in providing something like that as you dont touch those assets at all. I think the real problem is that you try to call it patch - thats what i wrote earlier. Patching something that isnt broken isnt a patch.

 

haha - well done Ishara - you posted already before i finished this one

Edited April 4, 2013 by dwiss

[Calzien]

My mistake for misusing the word, sorry about that. :sweat:

 

But yeah, pretty much I only wanted to include a fix for Bethesda's laziness in providing actual textures and proper meshes for the female version of Ulfric's clothes, the clothes can be legitimately obtained via the regular quests but for some reason beyond my understanding they opted to instead use the wrong meshes and textures that made Ulfric's clothes unique in the first place. It's pretty much like the Nocturnal's Clothes and Hat though those aren't usable without a mod. To me it just felt like I was ignoring a notable issue that Bethesda really should have fixed themselves. Meanwhile those textures and proper meshes have already been created by the community so I'd like to make use of those.

 

Again I'd have no problems at all saying "Go here to make those show up!" if that's all it takes, it would get that author's work more recognition as it should have and more endorsements! A win-win situation. But regarding the term "patch" I was actively trying to use it as a figure of speech, not calling my mod a patch for their work. Ideally my mod actually doesn't touch Ulfric's clothes outside renaming them and attempting to make a fix to the laziness left in the vanilla game by Bethesda. Overall I was just confused how it works since this is generally my first time trying to make a mod I'll present to the public. I want to do it right the first time instead of logging in one day to find an angry PM saying I didn't have permission to do this, or wanting to do it and having it be fine and yet never actually doing it because I didn't know. And I'd rather not have my mod pulled either because I didn't cover every base.

 

EDIT: And here's what I had in mind regarding other mods. As long as I can obtain their permission for it my mod would make those items obtainable via using the crafting tools in my mod. Like some of the UNP clothes you find on the Nexus would be made available in my mod (Through a separate .esp of course.) via crafting them using my crafting stations. You wouldn't need to access it via the Blacksmith or Tanning Racks, just use one of my crafting stations effectively helping to remove clutter from the menus. As some clothes are also only available via using the console command.

 

Again I want to thank you for all the information, it's a great help!

Edited April 4, 2013 by SamusKnight2K

[kylepeTe286]

HOW DO YOU MAKE MODS WORK WITH OTHER MODDING I AM DO A MOD ON TOTAL WARHAMMER 2 I AM TRY MAKE MOD WORK WITH SFO IT A BESTMEN RETEXUER