Dawnguard - annoyed at backstory

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I was a little bit disgusted with how it is, but that's just how it is. I think the main problem is that the writers have chosen to only briefly touch on the subject as if it is nothing, and leave us there to ponder about it (which usually leads to us thinking the conditions were of the utmost severity).

 

If there was a little bit more information, I'm sure we could all come to grips with just exactly what is going on. It's the not knowing bit that probably makes it all seem excruciating.

 

Obviously I can't speak for anyone else but I definitely can't agree with this at all. For me, when I am irritated at all with any of this stuff, it's a lack of choice rather than a lack of information. I mean honestly, I don't need to know the details of her rape and knowing them certainly wouldn't put my mind at ease... but maybe I misunderstand what ya mean.

 

Even if I can't destroy Molag for what he's done, it would be nice to at least screw the guy over in some way. Get some retribution for Serana or something.

 

Does this ruin the game for me? No. Skyrim overall (to me) does an excellent job with story lines and whatnot, but is this on my list of things I would have done differently, sure. Why not? :D

[billyro]

 

I was a little bit disgusted with how it is, but that's just how it is. I think the main problem is that the writers have chosen to only briefly touch on the subject as if it is nothing, and leave us there to ponder about it (which usually leads to us thinking the conditions were of the utmost severity).

 

If there was a little bit more information, I'm sure we could all come to grips with just exactly what is going on. It's the not knowing bit that probably makes it all seem excruciating.

 

Obviously I can't speak for anyone else but I definitely can't agree with this at all. For me, when I am irritated at all with any of this stuff, it's a lack of choice rather than a lack of information. I mean honestly, I don't need to know the details of her rape and knowing them certainly wouldn't put my mind at ease... but maybe I misunderstand what ya mean.

 

Even if I can't destroy Molag for what he's done, it would be nice to at least screw the guy over in some way. Get some retribution for Serana or something.

 

Does this ruin the game for me? No. Skyrim overall (to me) does an excellent job with story lines and whatnot, but is this on my list of things I would have done differently, sure. Why not? :biggrin:

 

Nah, I don't mean I want to know those details... :P

 

What I want to know is why? It seems that the rape was put in there for no other reason than to be horrifying.

[TheVampireDante]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal

 

First line:

 

Molag Bal is the Daedric Prince whose sphere is the domination and enslavement of mortals. He is known as the King of Rape and the Harvester of Souls.

 

His being is defined by what he does - his entire purpose is to control and belittle those he can, by whatever means required, no restrictions. Skyrim case in point: He commands you beat someone with his mace, he dies. what does Bal do? Resurrects him so you can have another go at it - simply because he wants to hear the words "I submit" - after he gets what he wants, you get tasked with killing him anyway, again giving Bal what he wants - the soul of the very man you just killed (twice).

 

So yes, what he does is horrifying - because in most cases, it works.

 

He praises those with the strength of will to rise above others, in the case of the women selected for the ritual - being raped by him, surviving the ordeal and then continuing to exist shows him that inner strength - the reward? Their newly found Vampiric state and all the powers that go with it. Including - powers that involve some sort of controlling aspect (raise dead to fight for you, call animals for the same purpose, etc).

[Monkinsane]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal

 

First line:

 

Molag Bal is the Daedric Prince whose sphere is the domination and enslavement of mortals. He is known as the King of Rape and the Harvester of Souls.

 

His being is defined by what he does - his entire purpose is to control and belittle those he can, by whatever means required, no restrictions. Skyrim case in point: He commands you beat someone with his mace, he dies. what does Bal do? Resurrects him so you can have another go at it - simply because he wants to hear the words "I submit" - after he gets what he wants, you get tasked with killing him anyway, again giving Bal what he wants - the soul of the very man you just killed (twice).

 

So yes, what he does is horrifying - because in most cases, it works.

 

He praises those with the strength of will to rise above others, in the case of the women selected for the ritual - being raped by him, surviving the ordeal and then continuing to exist shows him that inner strength - the reward? Their newly found Vampiric state and all the powers that go with it. Including - powers that involve some sort of controlling aspect (raise dead to fight for you, call animals for the same purpose, etc).

 

 

Agreed,

 

That is purely who Molag Baal is. What he did is consistent with lore.

 

I mean, really - everyone is having such an issue with the choice of storyline without taking into account that Molag Baal is EVIL. He wasn't being particularly worse, IT IS WHO HE IS! They knew that when they decided to serve him!!

 

Why people try to emprint real-life issues on a fictional game is beyond me! The whole point is it is fiction, a storytelling. No different than reading an epic fantasy book. A lot of what happens in, for example Lord of the Rings is rather upsetting, but it is part of the story and adds depth to the characters and the story.

 

When I play a game or read a book it is to escape from reality for a few hours, not to see if I can apply it to my book/game as well.

[billyro]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal

 

First line:

 

Molag Bal is the Daedric Prince whose sphere is the domination and enslavement of mortals. He is known as the King of Rape and the Harvester of Souls.

 

His being is defined by what he does - his entire purpose is to control and belittle those he can, by whatever means required, no restrictions. Skyrim case in point: He commands you beat someone with his mace, he dies. what does Bal do? Resurrects him so you can have another go at it - simply because he wants to hear the words "I submit" - after he gets what he wants, you get tasked with killing him anyway, again giving Bal what he wants - the soul of the very man you just killed (twice).

 

So yes, what he does is horrifying - because in most cases, it works.

 

He praises those with the strength of will to rise above others, in the case of the women selected for the ritual - being raped by him, surviving the ordeal and then continuing to exist shows him that inner strength - the reward? Their newly found Vampiric state and all the powers that go with it. Including - powers that involve some sort of controlling aspect (raise dead to fight for you, call animals for the same purpose, etc).

 

I suppose that clarifies it rather well. I guess I just don't like Molag Bal then. :P

 

Still, the way Serana says that "it was degrading" instead of "OMG! So painful, I have many scars from it!" is still a bit weird. I guess that's just the way she rolls.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

Monk, maybe you read a post or two that I didn't but no one was complaining about Molag being evil from what I saw.

 

And I am not sure what you mean about imprinting real life to a fictional game thing either. What is wrong with people wanting to have control in a situation where they normally wouldn't especially because it is a game and not real life?

 

Heck, the creators of the game imprint some real life into it themselves so as players, when you're thinking about a game, you're bound to do so as well. It's why Serana wasn't doing cartwheels and happy that she was raped. That's just not a realistic response to us and it isn't realistic to us due to real life. (although if she were a true fanatic most of us would probably understand (but then again that would mean she wasn't raped))

 

Why should we just be satisfied with the fact that we either help the Daedric Princes and or hear of their evil acts, but find we can do nothing about them in the least?

 

And why what billy, why did he do it? Because I don't really care about that either. I just wish I could b*tch slap the guy or have him sealed away or something.

[StayFrosty05]

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal

 

First line:

 

Molag Bal is the Daedric Prince whose sphere is the domination and enslavement of mortals. He is known as the King of Rape and the Harvester of Souls.

 

His being is defined by what he does - his entire purpose is to control and belittle those he can, by whatever means required, no restrictions. Skyrim case in point: He commands you beat someone with his mace, he dies. what does Bal do? Resurrects him so you can have another go at it - simply because he wants to hear the words "I submit" - after he gets what he wants, you get tasked with killing him anyway, again giving Bal what he wants - the soul of the very man you just killed (twice).

 

So yes, what he does is horrifying - because in most cases, it works.

 

He praises those with the strength of will to rise above others, in the case of the women selected for the ritual - being raped by him, surviving the ordeal and then continuing to exist shows him that inner strength - the reward? Their newly found Vampiric state and all the powers that go with it. Including - powers that involve some sort of controlling aspect (raise dead to fight for you, call animals for the same purpose, etc).

 

I suppose that clarifies it rather well. I guess I just don't like Molag Bal then. :P

 

Still, the way Serana says that "it was degrading" instead of "OMG! So painful, I have many scars from it!" is still a bit weird. I guess that's just the way she rolls.

No, she actually delivers that line rather well and appropriately Billyro....it's not that common for a woman who goes through something so degrading, humiliating and painful event to want to relive it time and again in her mind....Most women want to get it as far from their memories as they can, separate themselves from the event as such...plus don't want to advertise their humiliation to the world....Serana's reaction is a lot more realistic than "OMG! It was painful!"....Most victims of such Crimes do not want to talk about it, do not want to re-live it....talking about it is re-living it, as you have to think about the details to make statements about it.

[billyro]

 

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal

 

First line:

 

Molag Bal is the Daedric Prince whose sphere is the domination and enslavement of mortals. He is known as the King of Rape and the Harvester of Souls.

 

His being is defined by what he does - his entire purpose is to control and belittle those he can, by whatever means required, no restrictions. Skyrim case in point: He commands you beat someone with his mace, he dies. what does Bal do? Resurrects him so you can have another go at it - simply because he wants to hear the words "I submit" - after he gets what he wants, you get tasked with killing him anyway, again giving Bal what he wants - the soul of the very man you just killed (twice).

 

So yes, what he does is horrifying - because in most cases, it works.

 

He praises those with the strength of will to rise above others, in the case of the women selected for the ritual - being raped by him, surviving the ordeal and then continuing to exist shows him that inner strength - the reward? Their newly found Vampiric state and all the powers that go with it. Including - powers that involve some sort of controlling aspect (raise dead to fight for you, call animals for the same purpose, etc).

 

I suppose that clarifies it rather well. I guess I just don't like Molag Bal then. :P

 

Still, the way Serana says that "it was degrading" instead of "OMG! So painful, I have many scars from it!" is still a bit weird. I guess that's just the way she rolls.

No, she actually delivers that line rather well and appropriately Billyro....it's not that common for a woman who goes through something so degrading, humiliating and painful event to want to relive it time and again in her mind....Most women want to get it as far from their memories as they can, separate themselves from the event as such...plus don't want to advertise their humiliation to the world....Serana's reaction is a lot more realistic than "OMG! It was painful!"....Most victims of such Crimes do not want to talk about it, do not want to re-live it....talking about it is re-living it, as you have to think about the details to make statements about it.

 

Ha, yeah that makes sense. Perhaps my example was a bit too... you know, but you know what I'm sayin', right? I can understand that she would dismiss it as if it was nothing because that means she doesn't have to think about it.

 

Guess it's just not my approach.

[Anska]

Why people try to emprint real-life issues on a fictional game is beyond me! The whole point is it is fiction, a storytelling. No different than reading an epic fantasy book. A lot of what happens in, for example Lord of the Rings is rather upsetting, but it is part of the story and adds depth to the characters and the story.

 

When I play a game or read a book it is to escape from reality for a few hours, not to see if I can apply it to my book/game as well.

 

 

The difference is that in a book or movie you watch characters do things, while in a game like Skyrim you are the actor (as in person who does things) yourself. Opposed to other games, like Assassin's Creed for example, were you are just moving a predefined character (as in: he has his own background and personality and is just another character in the story) across the screen, you make up your own character in Skyrim. While you could make up a fictional character at this point, say a greedy thief only interested in his own wealth, many people just "play as themselves" and approach the game with their own moral standards. So when they are forced into actions they don't approve of with no way out, it puts them in a highly uncomfortable position, because while they might be able to think of an alternative themselves the game doesn't allow it.

 

In regards to Molag Bal and Serana the main complaint was, that rape, which is a terrible thing to happen to someone, is often used as a backstory for female characters if the authors wish to express that she lived through a very traumatic experience but emerged from it as a stronger person (with possible moments of angst). Which might feel to real victims of rape as if their pains wouldn't be taken seriously, because they are treated as just another trope or as some cheap character background like the topic starter suggested.

[StayFrosty05]

 

 

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal

 

First line:

 

Molag Bal is the Daedric Prince whose sphere is the domination and enslavement of mortals. He is known as the King of Rape and the Harvester of Souls.

 

His being is defined by what he does - his entire purpose is to control and belittle those he can, by whatever means required, no restrictions. Skyrim case in point: He commands you beat someone with his mace, he dies. what does Bal do? Resurrects him so you can have another go at it - simply because he wants to hear the words "I submit" - after he gets what he wants, you get tasked with killing him anyway, again giving Bal what he wants - the soul of the very man you just killed (twice).

 

So yes, what he does is horrifying - because in most cases, it works.

 

He praises those with the strength of will to rise above others, in the case of the women selected for the ritual - being raped by him, surviving the ordeal and then continuing to exist shows him that inner strength - the reward? Their newly found Vampiric state and all the powers that go with it. Including - powers that involve some sort of controlling aspect (raise dead to fight for you, call animals for the same purpose, etc).

 

I suppose that clarifies it rather well. I guess I just don't like Molag Bal then. :P

 

Still, the way Serana says that "it was degrading" instead of "OMG! So painful, I have many scars from it!" is still a bit weird. I guess that's just the way she rolls.

No, she actually delivers that line rather well and appropriately Billyro....it's not that common for a woman who goes through something so degrading, humiliating and painful event to want to relive it time and again in her mind....Most women want to get it as far from their memories as they can, separate themselves from the event as such...plus don't want to advertise their humiliation to the world....Serana's reaction is a lot more realistic than "OMG! It was painful!"....Most victims of such Crimes do not want to talk about it, do not want to re-live it....talking about it is re-living it, as you have to think about the details to make statements about it.

 

Ha, yeah that makes sense. Perhaps my example was a bit too... you know, but you know what I'm sayin', right? I can understand that she would dismiss it as if it was nothing because that means she doesn't have to think about it.

 

Guess it's just not my approach.

I do understand what your saying, I guess I just have trouble imagining "spilling it" as such, as I wouldn't/couldn't myself...just not really my way, but I do know there are a lot of people who prefer to "spill it", whether I understand the drive to or not.

 

She's not actually 'dismissing it as nothing'....more the opposite....Have you heard the expression 'Too painful to talk about' (or to think about)? That's the idea behind Serana's dialog.