curme Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 I have an idea of a cave home behind a waterfall, one where there are no load screens. You just go straight through the waterfall into the open cave. I read somewhere that modding the physical landscape of Skyrim causes all kinds of problems. Is making a cave with no load screens feasible? Or is would it break the game and cause conflicts. I'd hate to invest hours into it just to find out that it won't work.
gsmanners Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Actually, a lot of caves already have "landscape" to give you a more interesting lighting scenario (the first cell of Wolf Skull cave is a good example). The real problem, I think, is that you end up with a lot of navmesh if you try to combine Tamriel with a cave. It's just less problematic, especially for low-end systems, if you stick your interiors and cities in their own cells.
Falkner1992 Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Not really seeing how that could be done. Exterior cells use terrain, while caves (and other interiors) use tiles. :/
Teria23 Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 Another problem is that you'd have to break a hole into the terrain mesh. Which isn't possible. You can't simply move the "cave entrance" part of the terrain under the rest of the mesh either. You CAN of course ignore the terrain mesh altogether and simply compose your cave from the various mountaincliff and rockcliff objects. But since most of them are open on one side, you'll have more work pushing, pulling, scaling and rotating them than simply building the entire thing in its own cell. ^^
DavideMitra Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Another problem is that you'd have to break a hole into the terrain mesh. Which isn't possible. You can't simply move the "cave entrance" part of the terrain under the rest of the mesh either. You CAN of course ignore the terrain mesh altogether and simply compose your cave from the various mountaincliff and rockcliff objects. But since most of them are open on one side, you'll have more work pushing, pulling, scaling and rotating them than simply building the entire thing in its own cell. ^^ First of all, I know that topic-necromancing is illegal, unless you have an important motivation to do that.I'm resurrecting this post because I found how to export caves (I'm sure nordic ruins too, but I still didn't try that) to the exterior world.So, I think to have really important news for the entire modding community.I hope the moderators will consider this necromancing as a legit one. Otherwise, I'm sorry and I'm ready to pay the consequences. I already managed to create a wolf den (small dungeon) and I'm creating a big Falmer cave system.I'm going to explain you everything. However, at the moment I can't reveal any particular. I will reveal them only when my mod will be released. We know that creating exterior dungeons could bring you some great problems: 1) You must dig a hole in the entire dungeon terrain.That's true, but I found a workaround to this problem.Also, if you are building big dungeons, you might consider to build them near a border-mountain: create the entrance near the mountain and create the dungeon inside of the mountain. No terrain problems at all, because the other side of the mountain is unreachable and you don't really care about the great number of terrain holes. 2) What about connecting the dungeon part to the exterior part?!I succesfully managed to do that. It only requires a bit of time and of patience. 3) Let's talk about big dungeons... How do you avoid your computer going mad?!I know how to deal with this problem. It's really simple and you don't have to have specific knowledge. 4) How do you think to deal with sunlight? (Sunlight penetrates through the cave ceiling and walls, making caves like they didn't have a ceiling)I discovered this problem when I was building the Falmer cave system. The solution to this problem is very simple...and, of course, it worked fine! 5) How do you think to replicate the interior dungeons' lighting system?That's the only valid problem.I know how to avoid sunlight to reach the dungeon interior, but, in my opinion, there's no way to make caves really dark.However, I managed to give caves their specific colors (blue-purple athmosphere inside of a Falmer dungeon) and I can add some specific fx effects like fog.In poor words, I think you will never see a really dark exterior cave, unless you're going inside at night. Skyrim has been originally designed for having interior and exterior cells. That's it. :( Finally, if you'd like to have some proofs about completely exterior caves, you will find them in this topic (I'm creating a little Redguard DLC and the new world won't have any loading screen. Everything will be completely exterior, the house too. See yourself!)http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1788130-house-of-the-redguard-ii-official-mod-topic/page-2PS: At the moment, there are no photos about the Falmer dungeon...you will have to wait some days for them. Just let me finish the dungeon ;)
Mattiewagg Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Hmm. I respect the fact that you want to keep the tricks you used to create your mod secret until release, but essentially what you're saying is:I have the solution to your problem. All of the issues you have (except one) - I know how to fix them. But you have to wait until my little Redguard DLC house (which I respect - it's quite good) is out before I can tell you any of this.I very much doubt anyone will steal your idea, or manage to learn and create an exterior cave with your instructions before your mod is released. I understand you don't want it to steal your thunder, but if it'll be a while until your mod is released, you should at least give some rudimentary instructions so people can benefit from your knowledge. However, it is your choice. I know I for one would be interested in this information, and it's a little bothersome to be told it's possible but you can't tell me how to do it yet. Still, the best of luck on your mod, and I hope that it will be noticed well upon your release. You've done a great job so far.
jet4571 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Matthiaswagg, on 27 Aug 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:Hmm. I respect the fact that you want to keep the tricks you used to create your mod secret until release, but essentially what you're saying is:QuoteI have the solution to your problem. All of the issues you have (except one) - I know how to fix them. But you have to wait until my little Redguard DLC house (which I respect - it's quite good) is out before I can tell you any of this.I very much doubt anyone will steal your idea, or manage to learn and create an exterior cave with your instructions before your mod is released. I understand you don't want it to steal your thunder, but if it'll be a while until your mod is released, you should at least give some rudimentary instructions so people can benefit from your knowledge. However, it is your choice. I know I for one would be interested in this information, and it's a little bothersome to be told it's possible but you can't tell me how to do it yet. Still, the best of luck on your mod, and I hope that it will be noticed well upon your release. You've done a great job so far. Don't you love it when someone has valuable knowledge on something, brags about it, then doesn't explain how on the promise of the big project completion all will be revealed. But 3 months later they are not done with that project and a year later hasn't even logged in in 9 months. Especially when they necro a thread to brag about solving what someone asked about and to promote the mod they are working on.
DavideMitra Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) MATTHIASWAGG I know I for one would be interested in this information, and it's a little bothersome to be told it's possible but you can't tell me how to do it yet.You're right, I'm sorry. I was only fearing that someone could claim that he was the discoverer of this method. There are many thieves who are always ready to steal your creations and your hard work. JET4571 Don't you love it when someone has valuable knowledge on something, brags about it, then doesn't explain how on the promise of the big project completion all will be revealed. But 3 months later they are not done with that project and a year later hasn't even logged in in 9 months. Especially when they necro a thread to brag about solving what someone asked about and to promote the mod they are working on.1) This is my retirement mod, and I will absolutely finish it!2) Of course, this topic might also help me to promote my mod. I can't deny that. But the main purpose was to share an innovation with the modding community.3) As I already said, I was only scared about thieves. I hope nobody will steal my idea (I mean...they can use it, but they can't claim theirselves as the discoverers) Since I changed my mind, here's a small tutorial about my last creation.PS: You can also download the tutorial here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/57664/?TUTORIAL : - COMPLETELY EXTERIOR DUNGEONS - 0) SMALL INTRO Before we proceed, remember that you are going to create a completely exterior dungeon. So, you will have to make sure it won't rain inside of it. You can set your worldspace to have a special weather (all weathers minus precipitations). If you are working with vanilla worldspaces, you will have to find another valid solution against precipitations...the best solutions are 1) scripting 2) creating a new region that will surround your dungeon. In order to build a completely exterior dungeon, you must dig some holes. The Landscape Editor is the only CK tool that can perform this kind of work. You should proceed like that: - Dig an hole - Cover most of the hole with appropriate patches (I will talk about them during the next chapter of this tutorial) - Place the first dungeon mesh (usually an hallway)...but remember:** The furthest part of the dungeon mesh, closest to the exterior world, must be aligned with the part of the patch closest to the exterior.** The dungeon mesh must be placed slightly deeper than the patch, otherwise a part of the patch could trespass the dungeon ceiling - Now adjust the height of the hole until it is aligned with the dungeon entrance floor - Finally, always with the help of the Landscape Editor, create an entrance ramp: it will connect the dungeon entrance hallway to the exterior landscape. HERE'S WHAT THE DUNGEON ENTRANCE SHOULD LOOK LIKE AT ITS INITIAL STATEhttp://dc338.4shared.com/img/do3f3wgJba/s7/1481bc35ff0/ExteriorCaveTopic-Example0.jpg?async&rand=0.6013936472282189 1) DEALING WITH TERRAIN HOLES PROBLEM: As you can see by the image, I simply putted a patch over the various holes. The patch is a Dirt Cliff (you can add different types of them). Just remember to use the correct ones (for instance, if you are texturing the terrain with pineforestgrass03, you should paste a "dirtcliffs....blablabla.......pineforest03"). Now I will give you some other important tips: - Medium-sized dungeons / huge dungeons should be built inside of a border-mountain: a large number of patches might not look so much good (that's my opinion).On the contrary, small dungeons can be built anywhere without having the fear that they could look ugly. - When dealing with dungeons that develop inside of a border-mountain (like the pic's dungeon), you should only add patches to the entrance part of the dungeons. Obviously, other patches are absolutely unnecessary and will only waste you PC memory. Nobody can see what's on the other side of a border-mountain!!! :wink: - Dirt cliffs come with a small problem: they don't have a grass texture. You should manually add grass to them (as you can see by looking at the pic, I did it partially...work in progress!). Remember to choose the correct type of grass. For instance, I always choose sword fern clusters, because my new worldspace is a pine forest. DIRT CLIFFS ARE THE BEST WAY TO COVER TERRAIN HOLES...HOWEVER, YOU HAVE TO MANUALLY PLACE THE GRASS OVER THEM.http://dc125.4shared.com/img/ZbxBMs9Ece/s7/148178b4fd8/ExteriorCaveTopic-Example1.jpg?async&rand=0.22717149615815402 2) CONNECTING THE DUNGEON PART TO THE EXTERIOR PART: Simply put a lot of rocks around the entrance of the dungeon's entrance mesh: they will form a completely custom entrance doorway.Don't place too much big rocks: remember that you have to pass through the entrance (LOL).Finally, remember that rocks aren't fully finished objects: if you turn their x / y axis to 180, you will notice that rocks have a hole on their bottom. Remember to cover the various holes, should they be visible. ROCKS SURROUNDING THE ENTRANCE OF THE DUNGEON : ROCKS ARE THE BEST WAY TO CONNECT DUNGEON MESHES TO THE EXTERIOR LANDSCAPEhttp://dc125.4shared.com/img/2F_9S4vace/s7/148178b7300/ExteriorCaveTopic-Example2.jpg?async&rand=0.4017806168179424 3) AVOIDING COMPUTER GOING MAD (for medium-large - or extremely detailed - dungeons): You should place two levers near the dungeon entrance.- The first activator enables/disables the entire dungeon (obviously, you shouldn't link the first hallway and the first curve...just hide the rest of the dungeon).- The second activator enables/disables the exterior surroundings like bushes, flowers, trees, buildings etc (just remember to not link meshes that are visible from the entrance doorway).PS: I don't know if activators are able to enable/disable NPCs...however, theorically they can. First, you should place two portals near the dungeon entrance, one directly outside of it, and one inside your dungeon where you can't see the entrance. - The first portal will be linked to a roombound around almost the entire interior of the dungeon (obviously, you shouldn't link the first hallway and the first curve... Just hide the rest of the dungeon).- The second portal will be linked to a roombound around the exterior surroundings like bushes, flowers, trees, buildings, etc. (just remember to not link meshes that are visible from the entrance doorway). It can take a while to link every mesh and object inside a roombound, but it's worth it. I must credit Matthiaswagg, because, without his smart suggestion, you would be forced to accept my horrible and unrealistic performance-solution: pushing two levers at the dungeon entrance. Thanks to him, because I didn't know nothing about roombounds and portals.Here's a link to his nexus profile:http://www.nexusmods.com/games/users/4995004/?And here's a link to his Skyrim website, which is filled with a lot of useful tutorials (this tutorial too!) and other Skyrim contents such as reviewshttp://skyrimmw.weebly.com/ 4) DEALING WITH DUNGEON SUNLIGHT: It's very simple: hide some huge flat objects over the entire cave ceiling. This way, the sunlight won't be able to reach the interior anymore.The more huge are the protection-objects, the more memory you are going to save. PS: If you are using "unfinished objects" (I mean objects like walls that become invisible if you go behind them), remember that the visible side of the object must look at the sunlight...on the contrary, the invisible part should look at the dungeon interior. PS 2: Don't dig anywhere, be smart: look at the pic...as you can see, I did only dig where I had to place dungeon rooms/hallways. This way, I formed natural wall with the terrain on both sides. Those natural walls might help you to protect your dungeon from dawn's/sunset's sunlight. However, remember this tip only if you have to create underground dungeons.When dealing with over-the-terrain-level dungeons, the protective roof might not be enough. Should the sunlight continue to reach the interior, you will also have to add protective walls. AN EXTREMELY HUGE ROOF PROTECTS THE DUNGEON FROM SUNLIGHT (The protection roof is well hidden and it can't be noticed, unless you use "tcl" command)http://dc125.4shared.com/img/-Mp0TCJaba/s7/148178b9628/ExteriorCaveTopic-Example3.jpg?async&rand=0.4397995345643544 5) DEALING WITH DUNGEON ATMOSPHERE: As far as I know, you can't darken the dungeon.However, there are a lot of fx objects that might change the dungeon atmosphere a lot. It is only a matter of testing.For instance, I successfully managed to create a spectral-blue atmosphere inside of my Falmer dungeon: now it looks realistic. Too bad I can't darken it! Otherwise, it would be perfect! AN HALLWAY THAT ISN'T STILL COVERED BY FX EFFECTShttp://dc125.4shared.com/img/171ErkUzce/s7/148178ba9b0/ExteriorCaveTopic-Example4.jpg?async&rand=0.14793364001866627 AN HALLWAY COVERED BY AN FX EFFECT: THIS HALLWAY LOOKS MORE REALISTIC BECAUSE OF ITS FALMER-FRIENDLY ATMOSPHEREhttp://dc125.4shared.com/img/diTFeuE2ba/s7/148178bc120/ExteriorCaveTopic-Example5.jpg?async&rand=0.27568983819524506 A ROOM OF THE SAME DUNGEON FILLED WITH FX EFFECTS: IMPORTING VANILLA INTERIOR ATMOSPHERE IS IMPOSSIBLE, BUT WE CAN USE SOME WORKAROUNDS THAT WILL PERMIT US TO GET NEAR OF IT!http://dc646.4shared.com/img/AqUsnsPyce/s7/1481c6aea90/ExteriorCaveTopic-Example6.jpg?async&rand=0.5163220996672427 6) CREDITS: I must credit Matthiaswagg, because, without his smart suggestion, you would be forced to accept my horrible and unrealistic performance-solution: pushing two levers at the dungeon entrance. Thanks to him, because I didn't know nothing about roombounds and portals.Here's a link to his nexus profile:http://www.nexusmods.com/games/users/4995004/?And here's a link to his Skyrim website, which is filled with a lot of useful tutorials (this tutorial too!) and other Skyrim contents such as reviewshttp://skyrimmw.weebly.com/ 6) PERMISSIONS: Unless you have my explicit permission, you can't edit this tutorial and you can't upload this tutorial to other modding sites. You can create new dungeons with my method, but you must credit me because I discovered how to successfully build completely exterior dungeons. Was the tutorial useful?Creating exterior dungeons is not that simple, but it's worth to try! You must be really patient.Should you have any question / should you need more specific informations, I'm here to help! DavideMitra Edited August 30, 2014 by DavideMitra
Mattiewagg Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Well thank you. I did notice not all of the pictures worked but that's alright. Your English is pretty good actually.
DavideMitra Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Well thank you. I did notice not all of the pictures worked but that's alright. Your English is pretty good actually.Do the pictures work now?I also added two new pics...
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