Distances in Skyrim

[Lachdonin]

Eh, let the masses have their high def but tiny maps. Surely I'm not the only one who'd take a larger map and improved NPC AI over graphics in a singleplayer game. Low poly, render fog, pop in, transition screens... bah, nothing can be as bad as the BBS games and roguelikes we played back in the day. It's criminal how little else other than the UI has really improved.

 

The issue is, way back in the day, gaming was a small, niche community. You could keep going just on the loyalty of a few hundred die hard fans. These days, thats a surefire way to bankrupt yourself. Times have changed, and now its nessessary to cater to the masses, at least a little. As much as i would love to have a game the size of Daggerfall again, i would prefer having many more TES games into the future.

[h0rsel0ver]

If anyone knows offhand, how is procedural lod loading affected by world size? I've been under the impression that world size would be irrelevant if you're only loading a small portion of it at once. I'm sure I'm missing something here

[TyrantOf1969]

xlcr (second guy from top) you are awesome, that is all.

[GoodfellowGoodspring]

Another weird request, but does anyone know how the size of Skyrim compares with that of Middle Earth? Skyrim reminds me of it it anyway and it will be good to know if i am traveling a 'reasonable' distance between towns etc :D

[Marieh]

The MERP mods landmass is around 9 times the size of Skyrims IIRC. As for size; I do not believe there is a listed size for Skyrim or Tamriel indeed.

[Alithinos]

Well yeah the places in-game are scaled down. But to determine the size of Tamriel,should we count the distances between places according to how they are represented by the games, or based in a combination of the game's lore,or maybe based on real world science >

 

Look what size the Imperial City has in Oblivion,it is shorter than a real life Park,and there are only like 50 to 70 NPCs living in it. But somewhere I read that according to some lore,the Imperial City is supposed to be populated by MILLIONS of people! So the in-game cities are only a scaled representation of what they are supposed to be.

 

On the other hand if we look at a map of Nirn,the whole planet where Tamriel is located,and we keep in mind the facts that Tamriel is regarded a whole Continent,we realize that it should be BIG.

Now if you look at Nirn's map and think about the climates and the places where each of the provinces are located,you will find out that Nirn resembles Earth.

The Northest continent of Tamriel (Atmora) is a Frozen Desert,pretty much like our North Pole. Skyrim that is right under Atmora shares its climate with Scandinavian countries,Russia and Alaska,which are right under of the North Pole. In Oblivion Cyrodill is depicted with a Mediterrenean Climate,and the Imperial City is around in the center of it. This really makes it feel like Italy and Greece,or even Spain. The climate,the flora and fauna (well except the lions) resemble to it. But further down we have Elsweyr. Elsweyr's North half is a large desert,and its Southern Part a tropical Jungle. Now what does this reminds of ??? Oh I remembered!! Africa!! Once more,note the relation that each province has with its other,and the relation between Earth's places. Africa is right under Europe,which is right under the North pole. Elsweyr is right under Cyrodill which is right under Atmora. Nirn's places share the same climates with Earth and are also in the same order regarding their place on the map and their climates.

 

I don't know about you,and I might be wrong,but it's easier to me to think that Nirn is about the same size as Earth. If that was the case,then Tamriel would be this size:

 

From North to South it would be as long as it is from Norway to Kongo,while from West to East it would be as much as it is from Iceland to Persia. Perhaps it sounds huge,but remember it is supposed to be a continent,and in fact the largest one of this planet. If the planet was as short as it would be according to some of the other theories I read,then I just think that the gravity would be so low everybody would jump as high as Super Mario there.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Alithinos

[ElvenHeroine]

If you don't mind for me to add something.

 

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z362/Nihtantuel/World_Map_FIVB.jpg

 

This is how big Skyrim is suppose to be.

 

You can use the Expedition of Lewis and Clark, mindful that you know it took from the middle of May to late September from 1804 to 1806 to travel from St. Louis to the Pacific Coast and back. Divide that time span in two and then multiple by 1.5 (knowing that the length from St. Louis to the Pacific Coast is twice the distance as compared to travel to the East Coast and you from that you now have how long by foot it would take to travel from Solitude to Winterhold, given you went by Whiterun and took the roads rather than the wilderness to get there.

 

Approximately a time span of 600 to 650 days.

 

Or if you want to look at it in terms of Proportionate Size as compared to Europe. If you could travel across the North Sea and the Irish Sea. The distance from Solitude to Windhelm is comparable to the distance of traveling from Belfast, North Ireland to Minsk, Belarus.

 

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Anyhow two equally dynamic factors addressing the lack of realism in Skyrim is time and population of Nords in Skyrim.

 

http://www.tulane.edu/~august/H303/handouts/Population.htm

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Demographics

 

I would have it that the population of Tamriel should be comparable to the Roman and Abbasid Empires combined given the huge amount of land and so many races. Plus you have Redguards which technically would come from a Caliphate or at least depicted as though they did.

 

Well to be specific I address Rome due to the fact that the Imperials resemble the Romans and the fact that the Romans had ruled over themselves and non-Romans like Celts (Bretons), Germans (Nords), and others (which could be tied together as the Mer and Beastfolk) that it would suit quite well. Adding in the Redguards, given they depict Berber-Arab-African life styles and appearance kind of requires adding in the Abbasid Empire just to add in the Redguards. Plus to take into account of all that territory that is like five Europe's put together.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate

 

So take 20 million + 56 million = 76 million and that is how many people should be in Tamriel.

 

It should never go below 90% of that unless under an extremely terrible crisis like the Bubonic Plague (which wiped out only 1/3rd of Europe's population) and it shouldn't be much more than that due to how rural the environment tends to be in Tamriel.

 

It could be more, but then you lose the rural feel that this world gives. It of course would be more if you count Bandits, Vampires, Werewolves (except for Companions), and non-sentient life like Trolls, but they seem the evade the census for good reason not to be taken into consideration.

 

Anyways, since Skyrim accounts for 12 percent of this population, then there should be 9.36 million people in Skyrim.

 

Which means Whiterun, the largest city in Skyrim (which has only like 100 people) should be a thousand time larger in population at the very least.

 

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In the Principate, the five leading cities were ROME, ALEXANDRIA, ANTIOCH, EPHESUS, and CARTHAGE. In 100 A.D., Rome boasted a population of over 1,000,000 permanent residents; Alexandria was perhaps between 500,000 and 750,000. The cities of Antioch, Ephesus and Carthage had populations on the order of 350,000 to 500,000 residents. There were many more cities in the eastern provinces boasting large populations. In the province of Asia (western Anatolia), Ephesus (500,000) competed for title of “first city of Asia” with SMYRNA (250,000) and PERGAMUM (150,000). Middle sized cities in Italy, Africa, and the Roman East ranged between 50,000 and 100,000, perhaps twice the size of their counterparts in the northern provinces. Most cities in the Roman world numbered between 10,000 and 25,000 residents, although many citizens resided in the surrounding countryside (Latin, pagus; Greek ????) rather than in the civic center.

 

So basically, Rome = the Imperial City just to start off.

 

Which means in the Imperial City, there should be over 1,000,000 people. Whiterun should be smaller than that, probably with a population reminiscent of a borderline large city, 300,000. Solitude and Riften being the next largest, followed by Markarth and Windhelm, then the town-Cities of Dawnstar, Falkreath, Morthal, and the nearly non-existent town of Winterhold (which should be comparable, if not smaller than certain villages, of which there should be more of), till you have nearly the population I had just indicated.

 

You can also use the Settlement Hierarchy Guide to understand how big towns and villages throughout Tamriel should look like as well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_hierarchy

 

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There is a cheat to go by this HUGE undertaking. You could arrange the time to be 1/4th of how quick it is, thereby making mods that require eating not to be so ANNOYING. In addition, you could thereby require Skyrim not to be large and thereby not require so many people. I would go by a 1/20 model. Thereby, Whiterun only needs a population of 15,000 of which only 150 people you can actual interact with more than just some casual lines.

 

Although you could go by the same ratio set up by Bethesda. Which is a 1/20 time ratio (one real life minute equals 20 in game minutes) and 1/200 land ration (one square mile in real life equals 200 square miles in the game).

 

This is a 1/10 difference between the time ratio and the land ratio. Which means if you are going to divide the time by 4 so that one real life minute equals 5 in game minutes, just so days don't go by so quick and you can pace your way without it being as long as real life tends to be, then you could consider using the same theme orchestrated by Bethesda and shorten the land span from a 600 day venture from Winterhold to Solitude (of course going by Whiterun) that you could have the land factor set by 1/50, thus taking only 12 days in real life to get from Winterhold to Solitude. Using that same factor you can shorten the 300,000 population of Whiterun to 6,000 people, thus requiring less overall size increase to the city of Whiterun.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ElvenHeroine

[Dragonborn2020]

Skyrim should have 117,604.92 m in longatude and 85,942.06 m latitude. That gives 10,107.2 square kilometres (3902.4 square miles). :mellow: