Clean Save - Myth?

[x0pht]

Does the traditional "clean save" method actually do anything compared to simply overwriting the old saves?

 

In other words, in terms of the savegame file structure, what's the difference between "starting a new save", "overwriting an old save", and "doing a quicksave/autosave"?

 

As far as I understand, they should be completely identical, or shouldn't they?

 

Thanks in advance!

[drakshdw]

Due to how differently Skyrim saves work compared to previous TES titles, it's my understanding there's no such thing as a "clean save" when uninstalling mods. If you add or remove a mod from any save game, the save will eventually break.

 

This is probably my favorite explanation anyone has given about this. This is from Apollodown's Civil War Overhaul.

 

 

WHAT IS SKYRIM SORCERY/WHY DID YOU TELL ME TO START A NEW GAME?
My previous mod, Dragon Combat Overhaul, is a freaking work of art. It's compatible with almost everything, entails little to no script lag, and whitens your teeth while you sleep. There are two major bugs left on it, one is fixable, one is not. So you can imagine my annoyance when people came to me with every manner of bug report, from soul absorption issues to faction issues(what?) to quest issues(again, what?) to random crashes. So what caused these bugs then, if I didn't?

The answer: Skyrim Sorcery. Skyrim Sorcery is my way of saying "Bro, your save is toast, and unexpected crap is going to happen till your game slows and crashes." So what causes Skyrim Sorcery? YOU DID.

Skyrim is a technological marvel. Everything affects everything. The only problem is that because a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, when a link becomes weak in Skyrim, it tends to affect the entire chain. An example: I install DCO on my computer, then decide that I hate Apollodown and everything he does after playing with it for a few hours, save my game and uninstall it. I feel great because I just trolled a talented mod author, but pretty soon I won't feel great because latent scripts left over from DCO(yeah, they can do that even when they aren't installed) begin to pile up errors, affecting all kinds of random stuff that nobody expected.

That was a crappy example, but you get the point: changing things in your Skyrim mid-play breaks it. Maybe not in an hour or ten or a hundred, but eventually, something will fall apart, and you should cross your fingers that it's nothing important. So what is the Number 1 feel-good-family-fun-time way to prevent Skyrim Sorcery?

NEVER INSTALL ANYTHING MID-GAME. NEVER UNINSTALL ANYTHING MID-GAME. NO MATTER WHAT IT IS. NO MATTER HOW SMALL IT IS. IF YOU START A GAME WITH A MOD, YOU ARE STUCK WITH IT. GOOD PLAN? GREAT PLAN.

[x0pht]

drakshdw, thanks for the insight.

 

I do agree that the some orphaned scripts persist and remain in the savegame unless the user cleans the saves.

 

I've seen ppl suggesting that starting a new save is different than overwriting an old save/doing a quick save. <-- Is that true? If so, i'm curious to know what the differences are.

[Hyacathusarullistad]

From what I've been told, when you click "New Save", every aspect of your game is written to a new .ess file in your save directory. When you write over an existing save, it copies all data from the original .ess file and only re-writes data that differs from that found in the original.

 

In theory the two practises have no tangible differences in the end. But in practise there can be differences. Apparently. It depends on Things. Complicated computer Things.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Hyacathusarullistad

[Maniax2]

Revealing a Myth: Saving a game into the same slot

 

Edited April 22, 2014 by Maniax2

[Hyacathusarullistad]

Well there you go.

[x0pht]

Thank you Hyac, yes actually that was what I thought too, cuz i thought the only possible explanation for this "always create a new save" theory was the game only re-wrote the new changes in the saves if saved in the same slot, like how incremental backup works, but even then the ultimate result should not differ from creating a new save, unless there's a bug in this save scheme that Bathesda has still not found out by now - which is highly unlikely.

 

Maniax2, I really appreciate the link to this video. It perfectly explains how the game saves. This is exactly what I was looking for, and what I had always been wondering.

 

Thanks again, everyone! Myth solved! :)

[MODinsane]

Ive looked and cannot find "Process Monitor," unless it is not a Nexus utility type MOD. Put up the url if you have it.

[Deleted5770650User]

Ive looked and cannot find "Process Monitor," unless it is not a Nexus utility type MOD. Put up the url if you have it.

 

Right in the video it shows "Process Monitor - Sysinternals: www.sysinternals.com"

Hmm where to start... I have an idea, lets look at www.sysinternals.com. Crap the site does not work.

I know I will google Process Monitor - Sysinternals

Holy crap it was the first link... http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx