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Wanted: NMM Testers and Focus Group


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#71
Alex9009202

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Already reviewing a mod called tamriel of tanks for skyrim and i found a bug with it when you go under a rick with a high ledge it goes spiking everywhere plus i have some improvements that can be made with it such as making the bigger tanks heavier and slower and having the shells coming out of the actual barrel instead of the machine gun port as well as having the turret turn like irl. so i found some improvements that can be made


#72
Alex9009202

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and why not for the nexus mod manager have a desktop app like steam does which has easy access to the mods such as downloading uploading sharing uninstalling. that would just make my day

#73
sevencardz

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Sorry if this comment is inappropriate somehow... but I can't help but wonder why the Nexus bothers to spend so much time and effort trying to improve Nexus Mod Manager when Mod Organizer is clearly superior. What features would I want in Nexus Mod Manager you ask? Everything that Mod Organizer does would be my answer...

Now again, this is just my 2 cents, but if I were in charge of Nexus Mod Manager development, I would halt it entirely. I would reach out to Tannin and ask if a collaboration could be established where Mod Organizer could become the site's official mod management software. I would phase out NMM usage in favor of Mod Organizer over time and eventually drop NMM support entirely.

I don't buy arguments that Mod Organizer somehow has a steeper learning curve or is more difficult to use somehow because it isn't. I had to reinstall Skyrim from scratch several times a month when I used NMM because of the invasive installation method of placing files right in the Skyrim install directory and having only one chance during installation to decide what I want to overwrite and what I don't. If you want to cut down on the frustration and hate from users, then that is problem #1 to solve. Mod Organizer gets around this with its mod isolation feature, which by the way, is the MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE for any mod management software to have, in my opinion. If you guys aren't hard at work making profiling work with virtual directories for NMM, then I honestly think you're wasting your time. Even if you are working on these things... why? Again, no offense meant here, just my unmitigated opinion. It just seems like you guys are struggling to invent a new wheel when a perfectly designed wheel is sitting in the garage next door.

#74
phantompally76

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In response to post #36910965. #36911220, #36923925, #36926780, #36929315, #36931910, #36933855 are all replies on the same post.


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"Personally, I don't understand where you got the idea that I was treating Prinyo like an idiot in my response. Or indeed, why you felt the need to come in and White Knight him like this. Perhaps I'm just blind to it, or perhaps it's that seeming(ly obvious) chip on your shoulder again? I answered his question, and gave him a good reason why we would never do such a thing to boot as well. If you think that's rude or insulting then...er...ok?"

I wasn't referring to Prinyo, I was talking about your condescending and contemptuous reply to Jinxxed0 (who as I stated before is a SUPPORTER, meaning he has given you money) a page or two back now. Had you taken the time to actually read what I typed rather than worry more about the formatting on your pithy response, you might have noticed that. Prinyo did a good job (a MUCH better job than me) of explaining to you why that was totally out of line, but you probably didn't bother to read that, either.

I'll say again that I completely understand that this is your site, and your rules. And I have to respect the fact that you don't have to abide by those rules yourself. And I'm not going to press this matter further because frankly I know if I do you'll have no qualms about banning me from the site, and as I stated before, I enjoy mod testing and interacting with this community far too much to jeopardize that. Furthermore, as someone who is neither a premium member, nor a supporter, nor a mod author, and who will NEVER disable Adblock on this site, I am fully cognizant that I am utterly beneath your contempt.

Yet I still maintain that condescending someone like Jinxxed0, a supporter who has given you money (no matter how much or how little) and helped put food on your table, clothes on your back, and a roof over your head, who did absolutely nothing wrong other than express a totally legitimate concern echoed by others in this thread, and for no other reason than that's how you've done things for the past fifteen years and you have no intentions of being sorry about it...

That's just not right.


#75
AraFox

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I guess I'm just a simple country lass. I don't understand why this thread has devolved into petty arguing and shots at the software.

 

NMM is not a requirement for using Nexus Mods or the Nexus Forums. If you don't like NMM, don't use it. There's nothing to be gained in trying to degrade the software or the people building it. The OP asked for willing people to test their software. If you're not willing, then... don't. Anything else in this thread is just pot-stirring. My mama always told me that he who stirs the crap pot has to lick the spoon.

 

*sigh* I should probably just click out of this screen without posting this. It won't make a bit of difference.



#76
GamerPoets

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As someone who has created more than 30 tutorials for Mod Organizer over the last 2+ years and now finally knows every little piece of the program (the version that will not be brought to 64bit games in any near future lol... though there are hopes for the second version of it) I can confidently say that there are only a handful of options that MO offers (staple functions) that if NMM implemented would make it the most logical choice for all modders. The 2.3million downloads for MO apposed to the 6 million for NMM (which has been around longer, is able to be used for more games and has had a lot of people leave it behind for MO) shows that MO has an obvious pull and the reasons are truly not that many.

While profiles are "great" they are not the reason that MO is a better choice for the games that it can manage. It would be nice to have a single "go to" manager for all games. I don't think I'm alone in that thinking. However, it's never going to happen unless the key features of MO are incorporated into NMM. The simplicity and learning curve of NMM is very attractive (especially to new or casual modders) however, that simplicity comes with restriction that is only revealed when using a manager like Mod Organizer and quickly becomes something that you frown over when NMM becomes the only "good" option to mod certain games (fo4 for example) after having all of that functionality at your disposal left behind.
-the "Hide" function being one of those features.

All this to say that I'm rooting for you guys and hope that you can implement some of these major functions that NMM desperately lacks.

Edited by GamerPoets, 23 April 2016 - 09:26 pm.


#77
Dark0ne

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In response to post #36910965. #36911220, #36923925, #36926780, #36929315, #36931910, #36933855, #36956690 are all replies on the same post.


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I have no idea why you even brought it up in this response thread, then, considering this is nothing to do with Jinxxed!? Why not post this as a response to the original Jinxxed reply?

The mind boggles, it really does.

Edited by Dark0ne, 24 April 2016 - 12:33 am.


#78
cjgarner

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In response to post #36932180. #36932770 is also a reply to the same post.


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LoL TY much I never noticed it there!

#79
prinyo

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[...]
Mod Organizer gets around this with its mod isolation feature, which by the way, is the MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE for any mod management software to have, in my opinion. If you guys aren't hard at work making profiling work with virtual directories for NMM, then I honestly think you're wasting your time. 

 

 

People want different things :-)

 

You want an empty "data" directory, I want to see my mod files there all the time. I don't want "ghost" files  feeded into my game. And I don't want any "virtualization" with the mod files. 

 

The main reason I chose NMM at the beginning was the what-you-see-is-what-you-get approach. Open the game's data directory and there are all the files that will be used by the game when it starts. 

You can see them, you can change them, you can sort them by date or by size (unfortunately no longer the case with the new NMM versions), you can see exactly the files the game will see and use.

If two different mods affect partly an aspect of the game I can see their files in the "data" folder all put together - exactly the way the game will see them and get a pretty good idea how they will interact. 

I tried to understand why the "clean data folder" is such a holly concept but I still can't. The "mod isolation" concept sounds terrifying to me. 

My complaints about the new NMM versions are exactly because it started going the MO way with the virtualization.

 

I'm writing this not because I want to start an argument is the MO's approach good or bad. My point is that some people prefer the way of MO, some prefer the way NMM does it. Some people tried both and chose to install by hand with the argument that it gives them better control and less complication.

None of them "is wrong", it just a preference. You think MO Is superior, I think NMM is.

 

The good thing is that we can both continue using the one we like   :smile:

 

And also all this makes a difference for a small part of the NMM users. I imagine more than 90% are not interested in what is happening "behind the scenes". They want to download mods and play. 

So comparing features, the idea that we see in OP about one-click download and install will have probably the maximum impact on the users. And more than 90% will be happy about it.



#80
prinyo

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In response to post #36934810. #36941220 is also a reply to the same post.


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[...] Considering that using profiles in the new build of NMM (0.60 onwards) is completely optional [...]
 

This is NOT true and this misconception is the main reason for most of the misunderstandings and miscommunication in the forum.


 



What I meant, and what I should have said, was once 0.60 is installed, using the profile functionality within NMM is completely optional. Yes, it changes the installation method of mods to use our virtualised system, something which is separate from profiles, but you can use 0.60+ without ever creating or interacting with the profile functionality within NMM.

That is what was meant when I said that using profiles is completely optional, e.g. you don't need to be there, making lots of different profiles, switching between them all the time. Your post goes off on a tangent based around a meaning of "optional" I did not intend to put forward, so I'm not going to argue most of your points simply because I know what you're telling me already.

 

 

I completely understand everything you said and also I'm not interesting in blaming and hating because I know that it's easy to criticize when watching from outside and I'm not the one looking at the bigger picture and making the hard choices.

My post was a reaction to several earlier posts from the thread. My points were two.

 

The ghost of the 0.60 drama is still pretty much alive and it is still haunting the communication from the both sides. it is time that both users and Nexus put the 0.60 drama in the past. I believe our 2 posts managed to put side by side the 2 points of view in a direct and open way. And while I'm not happy with what happened I can completely understand and appreciate why it did happen and everything you now do in order to prevent it from happening again. And I'm ready to put all of this in the past. I really hope those 2 posts side by side help more people do that.  This goes both ways - because both sides allow the frustration to influence the communication and it doesn't help anyone.

 

On the second point - I'm a bit worried about the part of the post I left in the quote above. 

"Optional" means something that is not required. Maybe users are not required to use the new profile feature in certain ways - creating, switching, deleting additional profiles, in addition to the one the system already created from them. But they are required to use it - they need to activate it and they can not opt-out of it. The "VirtualInstall" can not be separated from the profiles feature as it is simply the way to make it work. I can completely understand why it was done but that doesn't change the facts.

I don't think is possible to estimate how many people benefited from this and how many were hurt by it with no benefit. On one hand it is not possible to know how many people actively use the profiles. Maybe there are people with only 2 profiles that they really use and others with 10-20 profiles that were created once for testing an never used again. On the other hand it is also not possible to estimate how many people were actually inconvenienced by the switch. I can imagine most users that didn't have mods with scripted installers or with requirements for the installation order did not have any problems. (Still, CBBE was one of the mods that was breaking initially :-))

So it is not possible to say if the change benefited more users than it hurt. 

 

What is important to understand is that the profiles and the virtual install system that they introduced are not an optional feature and it had a wider reaching consequences for people that don't use them and never asked for them. 

And now when new features are added - also as optional, most users hope that they will really be optional and will not create problems for the people that don't want to use them.

 

There is one question in my mind that I know I have no right to actually say, but I'll say it anyway without wanting an answer. Given the limited development resources isn't it better to use them for further fixing the speed and stability that would benefit all the users instead of using them to develop a new functionality that almost no one is asking for and that is very limited by design? But as I said I'm not in a position to ask this so it is more of a stray thought. I have been in positions to make similar decisions and know that it is never that simple the way it looks from the outside. It also seems it is not possible to know what the reality will be in a month when the current FO4 beta is released. If the wild rumors all over the internet are to be believed we are now in the quiet period before the s***-storm. 






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