Why was Negative Endorsement removed?

[Sagebeat]

In some ways, I'm inclined to agree that they shouldn't have been removed. More and more I've seen sites remove options to downvote or something similar because it might hurt someone's feelings, and I'm tired of that, though I'm pretty sure that's not why it was done here.

 

I think what needed to happen with the negative votes was they needed to require a comment describing why they're being given, not just giving the vote and choosing from a drop-down. This way they'd have been more helpful. Ultimately though, I've never found them that helpful; anything horrible about the mod could generally be gleaned from the first three pages or so of the comments.

 

 

An example against this is Kvatch rebuilt.

 

In certain mod builds, this mod basically creates a doomclock on your save, around the 70-80 hour mark it will constantly freeze up due to bloat, and there's no way to avoid it. Even removing the mod after the fact leaves the metaphorical doomclock engaged. A system where I could read a review stating this would have a giant affect on whether or not I wanted to download it. Unfortunately, 2-3 remarks about this bug are found in the entirety of the comments section, leaving that ultimately useless. I know if I lost 80 hours of playtime and said character, I wouldn't be making my negative endorsement out of any petty or shallow reason.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Stop whining.

As someone who posts mods, for others to use, for free, out of the goodness of my heart, I really do not want to hear that it was thumbed down because 'it conflicted with user's personal beliefs'. Thumbs up are good because they are a pat on the back and allow good mods to rise to the top over time.

If there is a bug, post it in the comments. If you just don't like it, uninstall it and move on.

To download it, try it, wait 3 hours, come back, and thumb it down is just d-baggery on your part, and keeps well-meaning folks from sharing with others.

[KDStudios]

As a mod author, the negative endorsements were nothing but food for the trolls to eat.

They offered no constructive criticism, just a platform for others to leave a blight on what is a beautiful mod.

 

If you're curious if a mod is good or not, read the comments and the discussions.

 

Also as a mod author, most of us called for it to be removed, myself included.

I am thankful to Dark0ne for doing so.

 

If a mod is bad, say why in a constructive way in the comments tab, if a mod breaks the terms of service REPORT IT.

 

Edit: Well said Quetzlsacatanango, this is why we all called for it's removal :)

Edited August 26, 2011 by KDStudios

[Sagebeat]

Stop whining.

As someone who posts mods, for others to use, for free, out of the goodness of my heart, I really do not want to hear that it was thumbed down because 'it conflicted with user's personal beliefs'. Thumbs up are good because they are a pat on the back and allow good mods to rise to the top over time.

If there is a bug, post it in the comments. If you just don't like it, uninstall it and move on.

To download it, try it, wait 3 hours, come back, and thumb it down is just d-baggery on your part, and keeps well-meaning folks from sharing with others.

 

 

I feel like an uncaring attitude like this will leave the site a metaphorical landmine of mod traps. We haven't had this issue in the past because we know what to avoid, but the new system sends us in blind.

 

I also cant help but feel like your entire point was basically, I contribute, and you don't, so shutup and deal with it because my opinion is more important.

 

 

A review system added would benefit both sides greatly, a way to thumbs down a mod and give a valid reason. People don't have time to read an entire forum full of posts to find the problems with mods, and I think that's what authors are banking on. I see reasons why positive endorsements are good from mod authors, but not why negative are bad. If negative endorsements help the community in any aspect, why are we removing them?

Edited August 26, 2011 by Sagebeat

[KDStudios]

Sage, read the comments. What part of that is so hard? negative endorsements NEVER told anyone whether a mod was good or bad. Not once.

The only time it did was when a mod was stolen, which broke the terms of service and after reporting it, the copy was removed and uploader banned.

[Eolath]

Stop whining.

As someone who posts mods, for others to use, for free, out of the goodness of my heart, I really do not want to hear that it was thumbed down because 'it conflicted with user's personal beliefs'. Thumbs up are good because they are a pat on the back and allow good mods to rise to the top over time.

If there is a bug, post it in the comments. If you just don't like it, uninstall it and move on.

To download it, try it, wait 3 hours, come back, and thumb it down is just d-baggery on your part, and keeps well-meaning folks from sharing with others.

 

 

What about being thumbed down because it did not do what it intended to do? If you take every thumb down as a personal offense I would imagine you'd get sick of thumb downs pretty quickly. (Mind you, there not many users that thumbed down) However, usually when you get a negative comment/negative feedback you ask yourself "What did I do wrong?" if the user turns out to be a troll, or simply an arse who didn't like your mod because "it conflicted with personal beliefs" report it, every thumbs down should have constructive criticism as to why this mod is not doing what it should do, and what can be improved. The thumbing system is not to offend you as a modder personally, it is there to warn other people that this mod is not all that it seems to be.

 

And that comment "Stop whining" was quite unnecessary wasn't it? Do you tell everyone that gives you criticism the same thing?

[Sagebeat]

Sage, read the comments. What part of that is so hard? negative endorsements NEVER told anyone whether a mod was good or bad. Not once.

The only time it did was when a mod was stolen, which broke the terms of service and after reporting it, the copy was removed and uploader banned.

 

 

In just this thread alone we have proof that negative endorsements are used by the community to scan out mods quickly without spending the better part of an hour combing hundreds of comments for mod quality. It was never about deliberately telling people specifically what was wrong with it, but simply being a warning sign for people to study further, a buyer beware so to speak.

 

I believe a review system, or a separate comments section attached solely to a review number would solve the problem on both ends, with the same requirements of mod download and wait period to prevent abuse. Both sides win, instead of just the modders emotional state.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

I'm not uncaring in general, just about ungrateful people standing in a breadline and asking for toast, with jelly and powered sugar.

 

And if you don't contribute, then you damn well have no business thumbing anything down because it's still infinitely better than anything you've ever posted.

 

'nuff said.

 

edit: @Eolath: only when they whine.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Quetzlsacatanango

[Sagebeat]

I'm not uncaring in general, just about ungrateful people standing in a breadline and asking for toast, with jelly and powered sugar.

 

And if you don't contribute, then you damn well have no business thumbing anything down because it's still infinitely better than anything you've ever posted.

 

'nuff said.

 

edit: @Eolath: only when they whine.

 

 

Is this the philosophy you want as the owner of a professional successful mod site? A creative database with no criticism? All contributions are good, even if they destroy your 100+ hour save files? You should feel blessed that you got the content at all because you didn't contribute?

 

This will see people gravitating away from the site, and I mean no ill intentions when I say that. We respect and love the madders for what they do, but not at a cost to us. I personally have created a few races, obviously nothing special, but i'm not about to ask people to stifle their constructive criticism because i'm afraid a couple trolls will throw themselves into the mix.

 

We're all adults here.

[KDStudios]

I am sorry you guys feel this way.

 

But a LOT of mod authors like myself and Quetzlsacatangango wanted this removing.

The community demanded it be removed, or at least changed so it's no longer food for trolls.

Dark0ne would not have removed it if the demand to remove it was not huge.

 

On the contribution side of things.

If mod authors do not want something on their mods, then its their opinion of it that matters, surely?

 

I'm sorry but the reality of the situation is, it's gone. It won't be coming back.

They were never good for anything, end of.

 

Edit: I am curious though, you say you want constructive criticism? What is wrong with someone commenting with it or posting it in the discussions tab? Really? You won't say what is wrong with that.

Negative endorsements does not provide a detailed review on any of the work you have created.

Edited August 26, 2011 by KDStudios