YngvieMalmsteen

Thank you for the vouch on PerMa though lofgren. been thinking about requiem as well. i want a very challenging game, and i thought skyre was not that much harder than the vanilla game which was very easy in my opinion so i wasnt sure on PerMa.

I'm going to say again, people keep saying that mods that do the same thing that FCOM does for skyrim exists, so as ive said repeatedly, please show me, nobody has shown me yet. i want to know what those mods are so that i can use them. If you are referencing the post i made listing my issues with skyrim, and then the one where lofgren insults me and assumes i havent checked catagories and the most endorsed mods, then no, ive already used those. Deadly Dragons, Dragon Combat overhaul, Ultimate combat, Duel, SkyRe, Immersive Creatures, Monster Mod, Immersive Armor, Immersive Weapons, Omagered99 armor compilation, Falskaar, Wyrmstooth, Moonpath to elsweyr, moon and star, undeath, fight against the thalmor, helgen reborn, interesting npc's, inconsequential npc's, OBIS, Salem....the list goes on. I never intended this to be an argument. Edit for lofgrens new post as i was about to post this one: If there is no one mod that does what OOO did for Oblivion, then obviously there is a need for one, because trying to combine 200 skyrim mods together to equate to one FCOM always results in crash city for me. (and by the way, on top of FCOM you still have about 200 more esp slots to mod your game even better) Papyrus issues? Locational damage for one. nobody has come up with a mod that does the same thing and isnt buggy yet. deadly combat has a dumbed down version that isnt as good as what locational damage sets out to do. Every time i get unexplained crashes, even after i have done merged patches BY HAND, FOR HOURS AND HOURS to resolve every single conflict between mods, i have to assume its papyrus, what else do i have to go on, especially when thats what everyone complains about in skyrim? And lastly, its not an issue in oblivion, oblivion is still playable with that amount of mods. So, i dont know. I'm coming at this from a mod users standpoint that knows his way around tes4edit/fo3edit/fonvedit/tes5edit. Papyrus is a brand new bag of worms for skyrim where there is no user tool to figure out conflicts in that realm.

Yeah, hopefully, as long as they ditch x360 and ps3. fingers crossed.

Lofgren, you say its false when i say there are no mods that add content like OOO? care to link the mod to me that does this? Please tell me because i WANT to be wrong. i want to enjoy skyrim.

If there is no more reason to be concerned about papyrus conflicts than oblivion script conflicts then why is everyone talking about them in skyrim and i have never seen them mentioned or cause any issues in oblivion? And why do i actually get them in skyrim and not in oblivion (even when using more substantial mods in oblivion than in skyrim)? Nowadays in skyrim theres way too many mods that do the same thing or compete with eachother. that means if you find a mod you like that you just have to cross your fingers you didnt just waste 10 hours installing a ton of mods based on that original mod once you come across another mod you want to use that is incompatible with your current overhaul, and now you have to base your installation around another overhaul if you want to use it etc. No issues at all with oblivion regarding this. Even Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul, which has been mentioned earlier, and is a fantastic mod which i use myself, is compatible with FCOM. FCOM + Maskars works quite well.

I am savvy, and i use mod organizer. Skyrim is just much more unstable with mods than any other beth game. Perhaps i will give skyrim another go soon, with no graphics or ambience or tiny little tweak mods like adding birds and bugs i could live without whatsoever. maybe it wont crash and be buggy then. i have doubts though.

(To clarify, in skyrim i would get repeatable yet random crashes that i couldn't get around after certain points in my save, only specific to that character, such as stepping out of a dungeon and it crashes, when it didnt crash during the way inside that same dungeon etc. i never get repeatable crashes in oblivion. and for oblivion to crash every 30 minutes, thats extremely rare. it almost always goes for longer. skyrim was almost always 15 minutes until a crash, after a certain point.) Lofgren, why do you keep looking to insult me at every turn? Obviously i have heard of those mods, and i have used them, ALL of them. I thought "And i'm well aware that for some of these things, there already are mods for skyrim that do it, such as the civil war overhaul, etc" would have indicated that, and also the fact that i've stated i have had 200 .esp skyrim installs in the past, not including tiny armor and weapon or hair or companion mods, so how would i even be able to overlook those, i dunno. Id prefer if there was an OOO model mod for me to use, as my answer for that is in the post by the last poster in that thread you linked. "But that means I know what each mod does already, there's not a lot of surprise in that." If i downloaded a crapload of little mods to equate to what OOO would do, it would already spoil it for me. I heard FCOM/OOO was great, and it was THE mod to use, looked at the gist of it, then installed. Everything else was a pleasant surprise. There are no mods that just add tons and tons of quests like OOO did and to a greater extent, and more focused on quests only, Kraganirs Death Quest, instead i have to download a bunch of individual quest mods that don't link together and they are already spoiled for me if i need to figure out what the mod does at all to ensure compatibility with the other quest mod i downloaded etc. FCOM is great because it all works together and then you don't need to download anything else because it covers everything, and if you do you will know if its incompatible or not because its such a popular mod. With skyrim, i can't just check mod compatibility by looking in Tes5edit like with other games, i have to worry about papyrus script conflicts which there is no easy way to check as far as i know. Like it has been said, crashes in oblivion are caused by one single faulty mod where as in skyrim most single mods wont crash you, but certain combinations of mods will. Well with skyrim needing you to download multiple different mods to equate one "OOO" mod, this is an issue.

Enemy variety and difficulty in skyrim are huge issues though. Enemy variety for example is worse than oblivion, like 11 creatures in the vanilla game? And skyrim was way too easy in my opinion. And Nephenee seeing as you say you didn't like OOO i'm guessing you haven't played FCOM either because FCOM is much more than "more enemies and harder game", it adds tons of new content including (of course weapons and armor) and quests as well. something skyrim is lacking on.

Well maybe someone could help me? everyone seems to disagree with me so maybe there are some mods i'm missing. For example what are the 4 skyrim mods that are comparible to OOO, MMM, Frans, and Warcry as lofgren says there is? EDIT: btw this comment was made before i saw the one above me ^

3 of which are retextures, and one of them a booby armor companion. :/

Nephenee13, its pretty well known that the problem is way worse in skyrim, as the only person that seems to make them for oblivion anymore is you and Nailflan. Also, when i want to find good new mods for oblivion, its easy to do so by looking at most endorsed recently added files, or files of the month, since the mod submissions are pretty sparse nowadays.

Even if this is true (I was never a fan of OOO anyway, so I haven't gone looking for Skyrim equivalents)...what does this have to do with boobie armors? That wasnt a reply to you, it was a reply to lofgren.

There is nothing in skyrim that comes close to what OOO alone does, and if i'm wrong please tell me what comes close. Also, lofgren in skyrim there are only speed and reach differences between weapon TYPES. sure a 2handed swords, 2handed axes, 2handed hammers, 1 handed swords, 1 handed axes, 1 handed hammers, and daggers all have a different reach and speed, but they are all the SAME reach and speed within each weapon class. booooring. in my oblivion, there are many different types of 2 handed sword for example that have a different speed and reach even though they are both 2 handed swords. - Not crashing every 15-30 mins - Not having bugs - Guilds that don't suck - More advanced combat system - Much more variety in enemies - More weapons and armor integrated into levelled lists, found on human npc's as well as say a skeleton or undead enemy that uses weapons and wears armor, and drops that make sense, like in FCOM with the black sun order knights and whatnot, they drop order greatswords and longswords that are massive and slow, and play unlike any other kind of sword in the game because of it, and a unique shield that only they have. unlike mods in skyrim that add new armor and weapons that just gives it to everybody and nothing really feels unique. -Way more quests, like way WAY more, in my 70 hour level 27 oblivion save right now i have 73 active quests, only 34 of which are vanilla quests, 44 completed quests, only 26 of them vanilla quests, and none of them are the crappy fetch quests that take up half of the skyrim quest roster. - More dungeons - More NPC's, maybe ones that give quests, though some of the coolest mod added quests in oblivion are given by vanilla npc's, to expand the NPC's and give them more purpose, skyrim definitely needs some of that too. - Underwater combat - Attacking while jumping - Spellmaking - More areas to go to, areas going into other provinces perhaps, like the northern part of cyrodiil or the eastern part of hammerfell or whatever, like it has been said skyrim is a bit cramped - Richer lore, skyrim seems to care about being an action and people game than a game about its worlds history, like a lot of oblivion felt like, being able to go near other provinces and having it feel a little bit like those provinces it borders, aylieds and all that - Birthsigns - Better villages and cities - Huge emphasis on everything being lore correct and in my opinion its much more interesting if the mod or quests have large relations with elder scrolls lore, though it doesn't have to, it can be about a bandit faction or necromancer faction or something for example like a lot of OOO's quests are about, or a powerful individual in a dungeon etc. Though a really cool quest which i think was from the mod Fighters Guild Quests, had you battling against and army of valenwood rebels alongside imperial soldiers, near the valenwood border. stuff like that is just awesome. -More interesting wilderness. One of the worst parts of oblivion that people criticize it for is the bland wilderness, well Unique Landscapes fixes that and goes the extra mile making it even better than skyrims. - Better Civil war - Make Dragons feel more like boss fights instead of potion chugging simulators - NO CRAFTING. Or just nerf it considerably. Crafting makes the game way, way too easy in my opinion. - Traveling merchants - Tree areas being more forest-like (i do love oblivions lush forests, would be nice to have a bit of that feel in skyrim) - can't think of anything else right now/don't feel like having this tab open anymore, if i do i will edit this post and add it below this line And i'm well aware that for some of these things, there already are mods for skyrim that do it, such as the civil war overhaul, etc, but every time i mod skyrim to my tastes, i get in the game, play it for a few hours, then suddenly the game wants to crash every 15 minutes. Mods that accomplish less mainstream things tend to be more buggy.

Christ. You had a perfectly good point and the f*** it up by bringing up something COMPLETELY UNRELATED Those things have literally nothing to do with each other. Can we attempt to have a conversation about modding that doesn't come back around to "but boobie armors are bad!"? Please? Nephenee13, all im going to say is you people have a website dedicated to your type of modding, loverslab.com where people can go and expect to see those kinds of mods. I find it annoying as a mod user that dressup mods get on hot files when something that could really improve the gameplay could be there instead and i might miss it and never know about it. That's all.

gulogulo what does it matter that you can dual wield of none of the weapons feel different? the only difference between weapons in skyrim is how much damage they do. i have not seen a single skyrim mod yet give unique speed and reach values to every weapon like it is so common-place to have in oblivion modding. Except maybe duke patricks combat mod for skyrim, but i think i remember it not being as full fledged as the oblivion version was due to engine limitations compared to oblivion. For people who have never experienced what i'm talking about, MOBS does it, OMOBS does it, and Duke Patricks mod does it for oblivion, using Display Stats http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/31855/? to actually be able to view those stats ingame. Quite awesome being able to fine a one handed longsword that has a speed of .80 and a reach of .80, then finding another one handed longsword that has a speed of .44 and a reach of 1.32, because yes the actual sword model is longer. Maybe this is coming from me being a chivalry player where these are the kind of differences that weapons have stat wise. If you put an Iron Claymore and a Steel Claymore next to eachother in the gameworld of Skyrim, you can quite CLEARLY see that the iron claymore is a longer weapon, yet ingame the damage reaches the same length on both.

Lofgren, have you ever even played FCOM before? The sheer amount of content it adds to the game is mind boggling. The combination of OOO, MMM, Frans and WarCry adds more content than i have ever been able to muster with skyrim mods. You seem to be viewing FCOM as a compatibility patch on a technical level and comparing it to skyrim compatiblity patches or the lack of need for them in comparison, i'm talking about FCOM as in those 4 mods and what it does to the game experience.

Its not really about which is better, i've stated my opinion and i'm just curious what others think about it and the subject in general, and why they think it etc. I'm not seeing this as a battle between two modding communities, just a discussion that probably should happen that i haven't seen happen yet.

I think the point that has been made about quality requirements for skyrim mods is a valid one. Oblivion quest mods like Kraginers Death Quest, all the quests added by OOO and better cities etc didn't need voice acting to be good really good, better than vanilla quests in some cases. they didn't need fancy textures. So why is that the case with skyrim? for example, this mod looks quite cool http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/64651/? but if you read it says he had to change the ending to not fit the lore because the voice actor didn't send his stuff in time. really? why can't we just read text like we did in morrowind and oblivion (modded quests)? Its another indication of skyrims community of people that use the mods. Casual crowds gotta have voice acting or its a no go i guess, probably the same people that want flip jump animations, and sexy girl characters. thats not roleplaying, thats just eyecandy!

Doesn't really matter in my opinion, as nowadays it works fine and isnt very hard to install. And the fact still stands that its installed, and fixed. I'm not comparing vanilla skyrim to vanilla oblivion. i'm comparing modded skyrim to modded oblivion.

"Skyrim doesn't just have less overall space than Oblivion; it also has less usable space. Skyrim feels cramped for a whole other reason: mountains. Unlike Cyrodiil where most of the map can be both built on and traversed, Skyrim's landscape is jagged, rugged and bleak... Pretty much as someone who has never seen a picture of Iceland would imagine Iceland to be. Then there's the content resolution, which is on par with what was the then the current generation of visuals for games (ironically made to look nearly a generation older by Bethesda's apparent refusal to believe that DirectX has move beyond version 9.0C, but that's a rant to go into another time). Content at Bethesda's resolution is actually not that hard to create, as it's only a couple of steps above what existed for Oblivion (in fact, there was content being made for Oblivion when Skyrim came out that either matched or surpassed the detail level for Bethesda's content). The bigger issue for assets in Skyrim is how the community has overcompensated: by relying on ultra-high-resolution content to try and bring the visuals up to par (only to run into memory issues). I've personally been guilty of generating 4K content because of the seeming demand for texture files that large. Several modders have also poked fun at this by creating 4K resolution manhole covers for Solitude, in order to help illustrate how ridiculous creating content at that detail level is. Generating content with the level of detail that the modding community has come to expect takes a lot of time... and that's just from an asset creation standpoint." Ph0rce i think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Thanks for the replies everybody. It seems some people are not aware of what some oblivion mods can do to the game (just like i probably am with skyrim mods, even though i have done plenty of skyrim modding myself before, anyways if somebody can correct me with an example of a mod for skyrim then please do so, id love to see a skyrim mod that gets me all excited). People always mention the dungeons as a weak point in oblivion. on top of an FCOM installation, using a mod simply titled Better Dungeons makes dungeons, well, better. more unique assets per dungeon. Its certaintly no worse than skyrim is in that regard with that mod. Lofgren, i think you may have just not been using the right mods. With Midas Magic, Supreme Magicka, and L.A.M.E (yes, all 3 work great together), oblivion magic is very fun and balanced, not overpowered. Especially when you are using FCOM which makes the enemies a lot tougher. As far as your skyrim features adding to oblivion, let me tell you that the only mod you need in oblivion to make combat better than it will ever be in skyrim with any mod (because of engine limitations, as discovered by the man himself duke patrick) is duke patricks melee combat (no recoil) for oblivion. Sure, you don't have the fancy looking combat animations in skyrim but the combat itself has much more depth in mechanics and fighting style, and much more basis in realism. It has sprinting, by the way. And i don't know why you would want to add crafting as it makes skyrim way too easy but i think MMM and Maskar's oblivion overhaul add some kind of crafting system, i actually use both but i haven't quite figured out how it works yet or tried to really. Oh yes, maskar's oblivion overhaul is another great overhaul that works alongside FCOM perfectly and adds in a lot of really cool features, and it gets updated often in this day in age as well. I agree with you, Skyrim did start out as a better game, but i also got bored with it after 3 months. i got the last few skills i cared about to master, finished all the guilds, didn't really care about finishing the main quest line (although despite how many hours ive put into oblivion ive never finished its main questline either, hah!) and i was just bored and done with it..of course ive had many attempts at trying to mod it to make it meet my standards and expectations and it always ends in one thing: crash city. Oblivion is not crash city even with all the mods i have. Yes it crashes, but like i said in 70 hrs of gameplay so far on my current set-up its never lost me progress and its not too often to be annoying. And its always random crashes, nothing repeatable that i can't get around. Being a Chivalry: Medieval Warfare player with almost 2k hours in the game and being very good at it, i just can't mod skyrims combat to get it to an acceptable level for me. Plus, no underwater combat or attacking while in midair (though there is that one mod fixing it, but i havent checked on it in a while and it only worked in 3rd person i believe). Oblivion with duke patricks melee combat mod is just really good. Its not like deadly reflex or unnecessary violence with a bunch of flashy head chop moves and just a few tweaks, no, the mod goes as in depth as to have locational damage, momentum added to strikes when running down hills, falling, spinning during your attack with your camera movements, or sprinting, scanning the actual weapon models in real-time to determine how long each individual weapon reaches, with unique speed stats on every weapons animation, so you may find a weapon that does less damage than your current one but reaches twice as long, even if it is a little bit slower than your current one as well, maybe you prefer having that reach so you can use that. And so much more. Its just great. Try to do anything like that in skyrim and as far as i know papyrus won't be very happy. Duke even made a version of that mod for skyrim and it doesnt have even half the features of the original one for oblivion because its just not possible in skyrims engine. If anyone is curious by the way, heres my oblivion load order. Active Mod Files:

Not sure if anyone else agrees with me, and i'm wondering if this is because of papyrus or the new generation of people playing skyrim that just want to flood the nexus with free cheat armor/weapons, anime hairstyles, and boob mods, but wheres the really well made, awesome mods like FCOM for skyrim? wheres all the crapton of lore expansion type material that there is for oblivion? Also thinking that maybe oblivion is just a better setting to mod upon. Cyrodiil is the 'melting pot' of tamriel meaning you can expand on any lore you want to in the elder scrolls and there is a section of the map that will be fitting to put it in. Also regardless of vanilla game content for both games, oblivion map size is plain larger which means more space to cram in mod content. Maybe someone can prove me wrong? Every time i try to make a 200 .esp long load order in skyrim (not including being flooded with little armor mods and the like since i dont use those, only if its a substantial enough amount of stuff and is added to levelled lists) its crash or bug city, whereas with oblivion i'm running a 197 active and 271 total .esp load order and it runs great and plays great, without lots of bugs and is a lot of fun. sure it crashes as often as up to every 30 minutes but usually i can get an hour or two in before a crash, sometimes more, and it doesn't matter anyways since i get a streamsave after every fight and also every 5 minutes. never had a crash in almost 70 hours on my save so far that has set me back progress wise much more than a minute of gameplay, even though its probably crashed a good deal of times, and i have fast travel disabled on my save too so i walk everywhere (well , i use tamriel transportation network for paid fast travel between nearby settlements but anvil to chorrol requires multiple stops and at least almost 1k gold spent). not enough to make it annoying though. Anyways, trying to mod skyrim like you can mod oblivion seems impossible. and it makes me sad. i know oblivion has had more time to mature but i know that the majority of great oblivion mods today were already out at least by 2010 which oblivion would have been as old in 2010 as skyrim is now in 2015 so.. Maybe i'm missing the point with skyrim modding. It seems like the most impressive thing with skyrim modding so far is what people can do with the graphics, so maybe since i only have a 560 ti i can't really enjoy that part fully and it seems not as good to me...maybe the extreme graphics immersion you can get with modding makes up for the lack of gameplay immersion mods that oblivion has....well, there are a lot of cool gameplay immersion mods for skyrim, some even moreso than oblivion ones, but they all rely on papyrus which is so slow and buggy..

I've seen a few people with the same issue, who knows if it shall hit you as well... I fixed it with the CK extender, manually editing the scripts to add a blank after each "if". If a clean save is an option, I'd advise that. clean save as in, starting a new game? i dont think it would be possible to switch between alternative start plugins mid save lol

Wait, what?! so the kvatch rebuilt version is bugged? i havent reached that fame/infamy level yet (10 is required by glancing at that script i think) but once i reach it it wont work anyways because of the problem you mentioned? how the heck do i fix it then... is this a problem that is going to affect everyone using the kvatch rebuilt version? how do i fix it? Kraphomus pls man, the kvatch intact version is a bummer.. i wish i would have gone with the regular one. with this, it being somewhat difficult to start the main quest (getting 10 fame/infamy takes a little while), mods i have that spawn in dremora to make the invasion seem more active happening when technically there should be no invasion yet, and having to go into tes5edit and make special versions to run pre-main quest...wish i could switch to regular mid save. maybe i should just ditch this save lol.

Unique Landscapes mod for landscapes. use all of them, they are all great. theres also compatibility patches that you can find for almost any mod that might have an landscape issue with it. For leveling, try oblivion xp. i quite like it. use the updated and maintained version. For getting rid of Woll Smoth face, use oblivion character overhaul v2. requires blockhead. for textures, use http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/45666/?

This would be extremely useful especially when using this mod http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/1567-duke-patricks-archery-and-heavy-weapons-combat/ It's been a while since this thread was created, anything like this out there now?