Striker879

After patch 1.2.0416 Bethesda turned it's full attention elsewhere. Any fixing from that point on has been our responsibility ... Oblivion got Steamed and now Steam makes the big bucks from it and Bethesda takes their skim from the pot. Cash cow is all it is to them. - Edit - My A-Bomb experience suggests that you won't get the full 300 to the next time. That's why I stay alert to the Legion rider's torch flames and re-OAF.

Just as an addition to Ike's console save instructions I like to append a sequential number to my console saves ... so it's MyNewGuy01, then MyNewGuy02 etc. You can be as descriptive or brief as you want. I used that method back when I started a new character but before I learned of some things you can use to keep one character's saves separate from another's. The problem always seemed to be I couldn't remember the next number after I'd been playing for a while. Now that I have other alternatives to keep different characters separate I just use the save from the Esc menu. The little summary each save gets for where and when it was made is pretty handy, and unless you incorporated all that info into your save name at the console prompt you'd miss that little benefit of letting the game do the work. Ike, that halo never shined ... it's always had a bit of tarnish on it. But that's OK ... I wouldn't like Ike any other way.

I used to use Multiple Oblivion Manager - MOM until recently. I found it works well and is easy to use. That is until I tried getting it to work with Wrye Bash and one of the options available in Wrye ... you can have a non-SI profile and SI dependent profile in WB. I just couldn't figure out how to get that working alongside MOM, so I dropped MOM in favour of WB's saves profiles.

Oh Ike ... you just can't imagine how much I missed you during your absence. First, Spyder ... I have one addendum to Ike's step by step. At step 2 ignore that last bit after verifying you're at version 1.2.0416. As Ike mentioned before the step by step part, you are with Steam, so it takes care of all of the official patch stuff. You don't manually or otherwise add any of the Official patches ... only the Unofficial patches (which are really just mods). I like to have a save from just before exiting the sewer (the part where you can see the sewer exit in the distance). I can then use this save for creating a new character without redoing the entire tutorial. Then exit and make another save. You will use this save to continue your character after installing mods (maybe not all your mods, but at least your base mods). Next go to the Imperial City Market District and make another save. This will be your mod testing save (or at least one of them ... you can have more). The Market District is a good test of your computer's ability to handle the load ... lot's of NPCs and stuff happening (not to mention that about 90% of the clothing/armor mods will be dumped either there or easy walking distance). A note on saving. Never use quicksave, it's a known corrupter of save files. Use either save from the Esc menu or console named saves. Never overwrite saves ... always save in a new slot. Gives you a fall back position should you run into some difficulty and avoids any possible problems created by overwriting saves (not widely reported, but I did read about that in Wrye Musings). When your save folder gets full (say around 150 to 200 saves) either move some to backup outside of your Saves folder or delete all but your most recent dozen or so and those few key saves like your sewer exit and mod testing saves. I personally like to hold off installing Companion Vilja until I've developed my character a bit. If you have any companions in tow they will do a lot of the fighting, diminishing your chances to get in a punch or two. The Packdonkeys are another thing altogether ... the first thing I buy (beyond food when I can't steal enough to keep up to my Basic Primary Needs hunger) is my first packdonkey. Trust me, it takes a lot of head bonking to gather the required gold, but they are just that ... gold. They carry all but my immediate personal needs stuff (restore health potions, backup weapons and armor, some destruction and restoration scrolls for when I'm dying and out of magicka ... you get the idea). If it's something I can wait to get when I return to where I left my packdonkeys they'll be carrying it (I don't take them into dungeons or Oblivion). They are essential for me now that I use Realistic Fatigue and Basic Physical Activities. Notice I didn't create links to any of those Basic this or that or Realistic whatever type mods. That's because I think you should play as close to vanilla as possible, at least for a while. That will give you a frame of reference on what the game's strengths and weaknesses are, what bugs you and what doesn't. There are lots of people who wouldn't play without their favourite UI mod or leveling system mod, while I'm an example of someone who doesn't give a hoot about mods in either of those categories. I like the challenge of working the vanilla leveling system and don't see anything wrong with the vanilla UI (except for HUD Status Bars, but that's strictly for Basic Primarly Needs). You need to find out what bolt of cloth you're cut out of before you start planning what to wear. Now to Ike's excellent mods. Sorry Ike, but beyond some testing for you I'm kind of a hermit loner weirdo type, chumming with my donkeys, shacking up with Umbra, plying her with candies, wine and flowers in hope of "relieving" her of that accursed sword so that we can become best buds forever (well maybe more than just buds ... I do play male characters, and yes, some mods are involved, as well as console commands for mods that don't exist or I haven't made yet). Spyder, I know enough about that red headed bunch to give you this warning ... look at the uploaded dates on them and if you choose the most recent (ahem ... RYAN ... err, did I say that out loud) best fasten your seatbelt and lock up your valuables. He is a treat, and certainly not in ways you'd expect when you least expect it. I lean towards Cethlenn. She's always got that eager to please (and no, not in that way) look and you get the feeling you could almost count on her having your back (as opposed to leaving your back exposed and dangling off the edge of the abyss with daggers and glass all the way down). CM Partners have their inherent characteristics, whether they are the vanilla ones that come with the CM Partners mod or from other modders. Ike found a way to go far beyond their usual and tread new paths (paths to exactly where is what we've yet to figure out). And for the record ... not one single giggle, chuckle or snort until queued by Ike (snort, chuckle, giggle).

I'm afraid I'm the type who's vote always seems to go with "whatever seems like the most difficult", even though in this case it looks like I'm in the other camp. If you do decide to go the "uninstall the entire game and start out fresh" route keep in mind my advice about installing one thing at a time and test thoroughly in between. Yes it's a bit tedious (I just recently went through the whole process due to a hard drive failure). It also is such a simple matter to troubleshoot problems arising from the mod install process. There are plenty of "Help me" threads on here that stem from adding a whole bunch of mods at once and then the game won't even start (or has some anomaly). If you're not doing the Full Monty uninstall/re-install of the game have a look at Bben46's wiki article Revert to vanilla data as a guide for getting your base game back to square one. Then you can start with your installing mods.

So you tried just re-installing all the other stuff and it didn't work? The UOP is designed to be overwritten or overridden ... I'm pretty sure you don't need to uninstall and start out fresh, just carry on as though you'd just finished installing the UOP and now were going to install all your other stuff (one at a time and testing in between ... if you add one mod to a properly working game and it stops working troubleshooting is a trivial matter ... add ten or twenty mods all at once and then were do you start looking for the cause of your problems if/when some arise).

The order should be vanilla game, patched up to version 1.2.0416 (happens automatically with Steam I think). If you have the Shivering Isles install it at the same time ... you can't add it later (or at least that's how the disk version works, once you patch the non-SI game to 1.2.0416 you need to uninstall before you can add SI). Next OBMM and/or Wrye Bash. They will come in handy installing the UOP and UOPs for the DLCs later. Archive invalidation can be handled by either OBMM (see my previous post) or Wrye Bash ... only use one, they both work equally and considering I've already gone through the OBMM method why not that one? OBSE can be installed after the UOPs. Install it manually following the Steam install instructions found in the file obse_readme.txt that will be in the extracted download.

The Ring of the Iron Fist, Amulet of Axes or Necklace of Swords are always high on my looting wish list (available at level 20). All provide 33% reflect damage, so you can either wear just one (allowing you to pick a different shield than Escutcheon) or combine the ring with whichever amulet slot item you prefer (blade fortify or blunt fortify 25 points) and get 66% reflect damage. Personally I prefer to stick with the lesser reflect damage option but like to carry the ring and the Necklace of Swords (not much of a blunt guy myself) so I can pick and choose which to equip for any given situation. If I've managed to snag the Mundane Ring it's a no brainer ... Mundane plus Necklace. Helmet choice is more limited. My preference is for the Helmet of the Mage (fortify magicka 20 points, spell absorbtion 14%), but there are plenty of single enchantment helmets to choose from if you don't mind giving up a slot for a single enchantment. I tend to like the look of leather armor for boots, greaves and gauntlets, so that sort of limits me somewhat. The Boots of the Olympian give a decent boost to agility, speed, acrobatics and athletics (8 points) all at the cost of one slot. For gauntlets its a toss up between Gauntlets of the BattleMage (alteration, conjuration and destruction 8 points) and Gloves of the Caster (illusion, mysticism and restoration 8 points). If I can find both I'd carry both (same deal as before ... equip what is needed when needed). There are no multi-enchantment greaves, so unless I multi-enchant some using Magicka based enchantment limits I stick with one of the single enchantment alternatives (which means a pretty small enchantment when you're looking at leather greaves). I like the look of the Blades cuirass and helmet so that's my usual choice once doing the main quest. Because there aren't enchanted versions available that don't have a drain penalty attached (I want it all) I usually either single enchant with a sigil stone (fortify health for the cuirass, fortify intelligence for the helmet) or go with multiple enchantments. It's hard to keep a lid on putting too many multi-enchantments on items. Make your guy too powerful and a lot of the challenge goes out of the game. The shield you get doing Blood of the Divines in the main quest goes well look wise with the Blades cuirass and helmet and you'll get another boost to reflect damage (6 to 10% depending on your level). If I'm looking to go all light armor the Blackwater cuirass you get from An Unexpected Voyage is a favourite for using to enchant. That will be paired either with one of the single enchantment generic enchanted leather helmets or custom enchanted. Sometimes I'll go with the zero weight Black Hood enchanted (you can carry it at no encumbrance penalty and switch when you need it's enchantment). I've been using RealSwords Dunmer with my current character (along with the rest of the RealSwords series, but I always play Dunmer). It adds a nice fortify blade/bow (depending on which is equipped) and agility 5 points each and fortify fatigue 10 points (nice because I use both Realistic Fatigue and Basic Physical Activities so every little bit helps) and I've editted the ESP to nerf the damage and health a bit lower and lower the prices so that the new weapons the mod adds don't become a gold mine. Of the vanilla weapons I think the Akavari Warblade (damage fatigue and magicka 30 points, damage health 15 points, 33 hits per full charge) is an option (coupled with Realistic Fatigue it should get you an advantage at the end of a fight). The Blackwater Blade you get from An Unexpected Voyage (absorb fatigue 20 points for 12 seconds, 50 uses per full charge at level 25) would be another option (and is a nice looking blade). The good old Blade of Woe is a fine backup weapon for you after you've completed the Dark Brotherhood questline (and is light weight for the enchantments you get). There are a couple of mods that allow you to change it's look if you're not crazy about the vanilla ebony dagger look (or you could get the textures/meshes from Insanity's Ebony Sword Replacer and fab up something as a replacer for yourself). So many options.

I'd try re-installing all the other stuff after you get the UOP installed myself. If it's simple replacer type mod conflict, where two replacer mods are trying to change the same thing, install order is King (i.e. the replacer mod that is installed last is the one the game uses and in part the UOP is a replacer type mod). The UOP shouldn't conflict with a regular mod that uses an ESP except in the case where the mod is actually more of a "hybrid" and has replacer type assets as well as new assets that require the ESP. Some armor replacers are like that for instance. All of the armor from the vanilla game that it wants to replace can be done with a simple mesh/texture replacement, but some armor in the game has no female mesh, so the armor "replacer" mod comes with an ESP to create female versions of those armors.

Lots of little details ... maybe a bit overwhelming at first but it'll all fall into place if you keep at it.

Nope ... that's not how the A-Bomb works. The troublesome byte gradually accumulates changes until the animations start getting stuck again. With OAF you can see the state of the troublesome byte in the box named Byte (third one over from the FixMe button). I'd run OAF whenever it got up to 48 myself, but generally even before I'd think to check in OAF I'd start to see the Legion rider's torches flames get a bit "lazy" and streaming little bits of flame. You can't hurt anything by running OAF providing you remember to keep the co-save name aligned with the fixed save name (so the fixed save OAF_MySave005.ess has it's co-save MySave005.obse renamed to OAF_MySave005.obse to match the fixed save name).

Did you click on the Update Now button after making the change to BSA Redirection and clicking on Reset BSA Timestamps? - Edit - BSA Alteration is an older way of doing archive invalidation, and back in it's day the best way (until BSA Redirection came along). Lot's of older mod's description haven't been updated to reflect the change and there are still some proponents of BSA Alteration in our midst. BSA Alteration works, but needs constant care and attention to keep it updated (as opposed to BSA Redirection's fire and forget quality).

Yes BSA files go in the Data folder, the very same as ESPs. The UOP is meant to replace vanilla assets (meshes, textures, sounds etc) and those are all stored in the vanilla game BSA files (Oblivion - Meshes.bsa, Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa etc). If the first mod you install is the UOP then there won't be any overwrite warnings for files or folders because the vanilla game's files and folders are all hidden away in those BSAs. If you add the UOP after installing some mods then you will get at least a Windows warning about folders ... because there will already be folders in your Data folder named Meshes, Textures etc. Normally those Windows warning can be safely ignored, as all you are doing is merging the contents of Meshes, Textures etc. and no actual file overwrites occur (i.e. Data\Meshes\Armor\fur\f\cuirass.nif will not be overwritten by Data\Meshes\Armor\JoesReallyCoolFurArmor\f\cuirass.nif even though the two file names are identical ... different paths). If you have installed replacer type mods there can be file overwrites though, and for that reason the recommended install order for the UOP is first,vanilla game patched to version 1.2.0416, then the UOP and any UOPs for your installed DLCs and then any other mods. The design intent of the UOP is to fix those things that need fixing, but if you have another fix in mind it will let it take precedence. That's also the reason that the UOPs should be sorted high up your load order, generally not far below Oblivion.esm (or in the case of the DLCs not far below the DLC they patch). That way even the changes made in the ESPs for the UOP will be overridden by ESPs lower in the load list if they both change the same thing.

Oh noo ... I should have known better. "And visions of grandeur danced in his head". So you think we just link to the wiki instead of hand holding, cajoling and occasionally scolding?

Ahh ... we have another "Drakes_Tips.txt"er. I'm going to rename mine "Drakes_and_Ikes_Tips.txt".

Could be a missing master crash ... they happen at save load. What mods have you added or removed, what do you use to sort your load order ... gonna need some details.

The folder path that I mentioned in my previous post is also the same one as where your game's saves are ... Users\[YourUserName]\Documents\My Games\Oblivion\Saves is where your saves are and one folder level up from the Saves folder is where your Oblivion.ini will be. Now if you happen to be running on Windows XP it will be slightly different ... Documents and Settings\[YourUserName]\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion. In either case (WinXP or Win 7/8/8.1 or Vista) these folders aren't in the same location as your game's folders (i.e. not in Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion or the Steam equivalent starting in SteamApps or something like that ... don't use Steam so can't give you the exact folder path for it). These will be in the same location as you find My Documents (WinXP) or Documents (all the more recent Windows versions).

Sorry if I sounded condescending ... it was late and that's no excuse. Once I'd gotten to bed I realized what you were asking about merging was correct and you had a grasp of the situation. Please take my advice to heart about never extracting directly into your game folders (even if that's what the mod author suggests). Download to a temporary folder that you create (or permanent in my case ... I have tons of hard drive space). Extract into that same folder and then examine the extracted download, comparing folders and files to what you already have installed. Take note of any file overwrites and decide which version of any particular file you want to keep. The UOP is just a mod. ESP files go in Oblivion\Data, the mesh and texture folders you have figured out now.

Be aware that extracting anything directly into your game's folders is a recipe for disaster. You are counting on the mod author to expect you to do that (and as you've found with Natural Environments, many don't expect you to do that). What you have now is a really messed up Data folder. Without seeing exactly what has been put where, and going strictly by what you have said you've done, I would say you need to right mouse click on the Natural Environments folder that got put into your game's folder and select Cut from the right click menu. Then go to your desktop and right click on it. Select paste from the right click menu and that entire Natural Environments folder and all it's contents will be on your desktop and not in your game's folders. Once you have the Natural Environments folder on your desktop re-read my previous post carefully and look at the folders inside the Natural Environments folder on your desktop. It's the folders inside Natural Environments that need to get copied to your game's folders. Folders named things like Meshes and Textures need to be in your game's Data folder so when you're done they look like this ... Oblivion\Data\Meshes and Oblivion\Data\Textures. Note, when I say Oblivion\Data\Meshes that means the Meshes folder is inside the Data folder, and the Data folder is inside the Oblivion folder. I also think you have some confusion about the difference between folders and files. In Windows Explorer a folder has an icon that always looks like a folder, while files can have different looking icons depending on the type of file. When copying folders you need to make sure you get them inside the correct folder, otherwise nothing will work. It's late here and I need to be up early tomorrow. If you're still having trouble later tomorrow I'll download the mod and check out the exact folder structure it comes with. Perhaps in the meantime someone familiar with the mod might help straighten things out for you.

The only thing I find about using the desktop for everything is that eventually your desktop is completely covered in icons and then you can't find anything. I set up folders for everything using Windows Explorer. In my case I have a separate hard drive just for Data so on it there's an Oblivion_Downloads folder, Oblivion_Installed_Mods folder, Oblivion_Saves_Backup, Oblivion_Data_Backup ... you get the picture. Each of those top level folders has sub-folders ... organize to your heart's content. With two Explorer windows open I can right click Copy/Paste between source and target without needing to re-navigate each step of the way.

I take it you've downloaded and extracted the mod to a folder you created ... for this example I'll call it Natural_Environments. The game expects certain assets to be located in certain places. If an ESP directs it to look for the mesh for an item in for example Oblivion\Data\Meshes\Armor\JoesReallyCoolArmor\ that is exactly where the mesh needs to be. Some mods (or parts of some mods) don't need an ESP to tell the game where to look for things. If you place a mesh named cuirass.nif in the exact folder path Oblivion\Data\meshes\armor\fur\f\ then all the females in the game that wear a fur cuirass will use that mesh (note - textures and such also need to be exactly where expected by the mesh they apply to). So back to your problem. Take a look in the extracted download in your Natural_Environments folder and you'll see that there are a bunch of folders. The game expects the folders to be exactly like that starting at Data on down. Now some mods come packaged in a way that extracts to a structure starting at Data (in which case your extracted download would look like Natural_Environments\Data), but most start at Meshes and Textures (and Menus and Sound etc), so what you'll see is Natural_Environments\Meshes and Natural_Environments\Textures etc. When you see a folder named Meshes it needs to wind up in the following structure ... Oblivion\Data\Meshes (so then you'll also need Oblivion\Data\Textures and Oblivion\Data\Sound etc). A sure sign you've messed up is something like Oblivion\Data\Data\Meshes or Oblivion\Data\Meshes\Meshes when you look in your game's folders after installing. Study the extracted download and it will show you where everything needs to go in the game's folders.

From my experience AI packages don't run when your character is far enough from the cell the NPC is in ... but how far is far enough, no idea (maybe it's related to your Oblivion.ini grids to load or something similar). When your character gets within that "range" the game will decide which package has precedence and where the NPC should be. In my experience it isn't too choosy about where though. Have you ever noticed how in the vanilla game when you enter say the Market District from say Elven Gardens all the Market NPCs that should be there are starting from a little crowd in the center of the District? Same deal when you are heading in from the Talos gate towards Elven Gardens ... same guard walking along the same path and will be at the same point in his patrol no matter the time of day or season of the year providing you come in the gate and follow your usual route at your usual pace. Kind of a Groundhog Day, Bill Murray type experience.

Oblivion Animation Fixer (OAF) isn't a mod, it's an executable so I don't think NMM can run it (but I'm the last anti-NMM guy, so I know diddly about it). I have used OAF in the past and now use Wrye Bash for my A-Bomb fixing. With OAF you need to rename a copy of your OBSE co-save to match your fixed save (or use TheRoman's method of renaming the fixed save to match the co-save). With Wrye this isn't necessary, it makes a backup of the save and co-save by appending and f to the extension (so MySave007.ess becomes MySave07.essf and the co-save MySave07obse becomes MySave07.obsef) all in Saves\Bash\Backups. As far as I can tell, fixed with one is the same kind of fixed with the other, so it's just a case of whether you already use Wrye Bash or not, and whether you want to take care of coordinating the save/co-saves yourself or not.

Ya sorry ... shoulda' put that one in spoiler tags. Not sure if I'd be any more popular if I'd said nada until afterwards (maybe just keep what I know to myself and whistle an off key tune when you find none ... I dunno, no winning sometimes).

LOL ... rub it in buddy, rub it in. We're doing that Celsius thing now-a-days ... doesn't make it seem any warmer to an old fart like me though. Minus 15 degrees C at the moment (that's a balmy 5 degrees F). Got some friends who winter in N. Fort Myers ... according to the SW Florida Eagle cam right now it's 65 degrees F there ... downright frigid by our standards, eh.