MShoap13
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Posts posted by MShoap13
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I see lots of Papyrus-heavy mods here. Could be a case of Papyrus overload.
For random crashes as you travel along try:
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You could try bumping up the fUpdateBudgetMS and fExtraTaskletBudgetMS settings under the [Papyrus] section of Skyrim.ini (located at C:\Users\*Name*\Documents\My Games\Skyrim\). If they aren't under you [Papyrus] section, feel free to add them. These are periodic pauses where the game literally freezes for a split second to allow the Papyrus VM to do it's thing. Setting them too high will cause stutter so 10 to 12 would be where I'd start on both. Then, if that increases stability, start bumping them back down 1-2 ms at a time until you find the "stability breakpoint" for your particular setup.
For crashes at loading screens/autosaves there's a couple of other settings that can be tweaked to rule out an issue with the Papyrus VM.
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I personally would let Vurt's Flora take precedent over both of said mods as Vurt's textures are specifically designed for his tree/shrub meshes.
In the case of WATER, it may be trying to overwrite things near bodies of water in which case you'd pretty much need to track down exactly what files between WATER and VFO are for the same things, and then test in-game which looks best to you.
I'd definitely let VFO and WATER override HD2K. Nothing against HD2K as it's got a lot of beautiful artwork, but VFO and WATER are focused mods and getting Vurt's trees but not his grass or getting WATER's beaches but not it's lake-side rocks just feel wrong. -
Home Premium uses up to 16GB. And quite frankly unless you're doing some insane modelling/rendering or super-multi-tasking while encoding video/archiving huge files, you'll practically never run into the 8GB usage range. Certainly not while playing Skyrim; assuming you don't play with an insane amount of background processes running (which by itself greatly affects the stability of Skyrim's engine).
I'm partial to MSI as the Twin Frozer cooler design is phenomenal. It's nearly silent with excellent cooling capacity. ASUS is hit or miss on their aftermarket coolers (quietness-wise at least) and I'd read user reviews on any specific card manufactured by them before purchasing. Nothing wrong with Sapphire or PowerColor if you don't mind the noise of the stock cooling system though.Your CTDs could very well be due to System RAM limitations.Didn't read that you already had Win7 Home Premium. Let us know how the upgrades go.Edit: You could try bumping up the fUpdateBudgetMS and fExtraTaskletBudgetMS settings. These are periodic pauses where the game literally freezes for a split second to allow the Papyrus VM to do it's thing. Setting them too high will cause stutter so 10 to 12 would be where I'd start on both. Then, if that increases stability when multiple actors pop-in/spawn at once, start bumping them back down 1-2 ms at a time until you find the "stability breakpoint" for your particular setup.
For the loading screen, you could maybe bump up fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS. This is how long the game gives the Papyrus VM to load up all the scripts screenshotted into your save. I'd try 800 to 1000 as the only downside is slightly increased loading times (the number again is in milliseconds so 1000 would add half a second). -
Is the infinite loading screen on an old save or a newer one? Are the CTDs random or do they happen when actors/enemies first pop-in to view, do you stutter when actors pop into view or begin to speak?
As far as Windows goes, unless you're going to use the features of Pro, I'd advise just getting Home Premium. No point in spending extra money on things you won't utilize.
For video cards in your price range, Radeon 7870 or GeForce 660 are both fine choices. I'm an nVidia supporter myself due to their aggressive driver updates. Though the 7870 does out-spec the 660 across the board, the 660 still holds up in games and the performance winner is give-and-take, depending on the game.
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For JSwords i use patch from http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/26230 and still have this warning message.
About About BreezeHome here what author said.
Info pertaining to BOSS errors:
As you're probably aware Skyrim has 2 file-types, esm's (Elder Scrolls Master Files) & esp's (Elder Scrolls Plugins), all mods, and probably the game itself, all start life as esp's and some (as in the main game files) then have an internal tag set to Master which means it can no longer be edited directly. Now, one rule to remember is that esm's cannot be modified by other esm's, the game will run both concurrently and the original will almost always win, the same also goes for esp's, you cannot modify an esp with another esp, and finally you cannot mod an esp with an esm, so it's basically a one way thing, you can only mod an esm with an esp!
So, because the house was originally built as an esp in which I made settings changes, such as where the original door now leads to, where the original house building now is etc. but once I changed the file to an esm those changes were ignored during run-time so I had to create an esp overlay to re-affirm those changes, those re-affirmations are what BOSS is calling "dirty edits".
As for the deleted nav-meshes, because the original Breezehome building has been moved I had to remove the nav-mesh that was originally on that particular piece of pathway otherwise you'd have npc's trying to walk through the side of the house!!
I tested extensively, running all over the city with followers in tow to make sure there were no undesired consequences of the changes to the nav-mesh and all is as it should be.
So as you can see, yes there are things that BOSS will tag as problems, but they are intentional.
I hope that explains things for you and you can use the mod without worrying!
bert ;-)
And i try clear save w/o any mods or addons. Still crash.
BOSS may or may not be updated to determine if you're using the right JSwords plugin, but it should be. Make sure you did overwrite the old plugin with the new one.
Bert should contact the BOSS team and let them know the situation. They're probably still swamped so it would take a while for them to update the Masterlist to not include these warnings. However, if you have a second .esp that for whatever reason modifies that NavMesh and it loads after Bert's BreezeHome, it's going to be an issue. Bert should include a warning and probably a list of incompatible mods (that at the very least should always load before his, if not, be avoided while using it). Additionally, I'm pretty sure Bert could have altered the existing NavMesh instead of outright deleting it. He could have properly moved/removed the pathing planes and entrance.
If you're crashing with absolutely no mods/textures installed, then it's either a .ini setting, a corrupted file, or a hardware/driver issue.
Try reverting your .ini's (cut and paste them to a temporary location; open the Skyrim Launcher and it should make new .ini's; then test [if you've altered uGridsToLoad you'll need to take special steps to revert it]).
Verify the integrity of the game cache through Steam. This will find and replace any possibly corrupted files. It should always find and download 1 file to update unless they've fixed that (if you get zero or one, this was not the issue).
If neither of the above work, check your drivers, motherboard BIOS, Overclock Settings, etc. If it's none of those, try running the Windows Memory Diagnostic. Do the most thorough scan it has available and if it finds any issues, post back and I'll be happy to give you further troubleshooting tips.
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After following Bosses suggestions, you may need to start a new character to see the full benefits. JSwords and the BreezeHome mod's warnings should not be overlooked! Potentially corrupt plugins and deleted NavMeshes can cause big issues and I'm pretty sure neither can be cleaned from a save game.
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Bleh, the back button ate my post! >:(
No, No, No...
That setting has nothing to do with how much RAM Skyrim itself can access. It's a 32-bit application and is explicitly capped at 3.2GB, period. That setting controls how much RAM the Papyrus VM can access at once. Setting it to 2GB or more is only going to open the door for other problems to pop up. The default setting is 76800 (75KB). Raising this value can help increase stability in a Papyrus-heavy environment during saving/loading. The VM's RAM usage spikes during these times, and if it runs out while it's snapshotting or recalling the VM's state, it will usually CTD. Something like 1MB (1048576) is pretty reasonable as it ensures you have plenty of RAM available to the VM with pretty much no impact on how much RAM the rest of the game can use.
Here's some documentation on the [Papyrus] section of Skyrim.ini.
Edit: No idea on the SkyUI warning, but if you were to post the exact message it outputs, I or someone else may be familiar enough with it to point you in the right direction (assuming it isn't warning you that you've made a bad tweak to iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes).
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Load order isn't a really big issue since you're running out of vRAM. Anything past ~5GB of System RAM is overkill for Skyrim as it's a 32-bit application; even though it's Large Address Aware, it can still only utilize ~3.2 GB of RAM. However, System RAM isn't what we're dealing with here. There's a number of things you can do (In order of impact on visual quality; least to greatest):
Either, go into the compatibility tab of Skyrim.exe and check the boxes to disable visual themes and desktop composition; or grab Razer GameBooster and set it up to close explorer.exe (and any other unnecessary background processes). That'll free up ~60 MB.If you're running the Official High-Res Texture Pack, consider unpacking it from the .bsa's (BSAOpt can do this), repacking it into a single .7z/.zip/.rar and then installing it via NMM/MO choosing not to overwrite anything (You can do this manually, but it's typically easier and more maintainable to repack it and then use a manager to install it). This will reduce vRAM usage and decompression overhead (which causes stutter).
Set up Optimizer Textures (or whatever optimizer you prefer so long as it has the functionality to get the job done) to halve the size of all files that end in "_n.dds". These are normal maps and in the vast majority of cases, you'll notice no difference between 1:1 compared to 1:0.5 normals, but it will save a ton of vRAM. The most noticeable things would be detailed, ornate, clothing/swords/grass textures and you should be able to restore the 1:1 normals if you find a particular texture that has a noticeably blurry normal map. note: You actually have to set Optimizer Textures up to ignore all files that end in _a-z,1-0 (minus n). as it has no "include only" functionality to my knowledge, just "exclude".
Lower your AA settings. Maybe even grab an SMAA injector if that's a possibility. 2xAA with a well-tuned SMAA is comparable to 8xAA at nearly a quarter of the RAM cost, and reduced rendering workload.Drop down to 8xAF, there's very few views where 16x is needed (most of them include distant rocks or water) and the few places it is needed, aren't very noticeable without a side-by-side comparison.
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Resolution, AA settings?
2GB should be more than enough for TPC Lite with 4x AA. Are you sure it's a vRAM issue? Have you monitored vRAM usage and seen that you're using 1.9GB or more?
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How much vRAM are you working with? Resolution, AA settings?
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Papyrus overload is also a possibility. I see UFO and lots of custom followers + Footprints, Cloaks, CoT, etc..
if you have modified uGridsToLoad in Skyrim.ini I would suggest to set that back to the default values;
uGridsToLoad=5
uExteriorCellBuffer=36
then create a new game (your old save game wont open) and see if you still get crashes.
UgridsToLoad causes (can cause) many issues on a modded game, no matter what a beast of a PC you have, its still just a 32 bit application.
To revert uGrids setting without bailing on your character, open the game and load your character, alt+tab out and set uGrids back down to 5 in the .ini, save the .ini and alt+tab back into the game, open the console and type "refini", make a new save game.
It's recommended to exit to the menu and then load the new save you just made to make sure the uGrids change took without issues. -
temporarily
Thanks MShoap,
I will try out your solution, but alt-tab doesn't seem to make a difference as it will happen again as I walk through a city or turn 360 degrees. Do you think it could be bottlenecking as it loads the background. I just don't know why it would do this with my system which should be more than enough.
EBG2465
SLI doesn't do a lot for increasing VRAM as all resources that get loaded to one card get loaded to the other. The only place SLI saves on VRAM usage is the frame buffer, because each card is only drawing half the scene.
You're running out of VRAM. When this happens, Windows starts allocating system memory to the video card. For some dumbass reason, nVidia cards will allow the frame buffer to get stored in System RAM which causes it to have to run through the PCI bus twice.
You can push close to 3GBs of VRAM usage out of a very highly modded Skyrim with crazy AA settings and such (more with multi-monitor setups). You've only got 1280MBs (give or take; see the previous quote).
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Monitor your FPS and when it drops, alt+tab out and back into the game to see if it temporarily fixes it. If so, you're running out of VRAM.
SLI doesn't do a lot for increasing VRAM as all resources that get loaded to one card get loaded to the other. The only place SLI saves on VRAM usage is the frame buffer, because each card is only drawing half the scene.
There's a number of things you can do to reduce VRAM usage which will at the least, allow you to play longer before the FPS drop, if not, clear up the issue entirely. You can setup the game to disable Windows Aero and Desktop Composition, or you can grab GameBooster and set it up to close explorer.exe while you play (along with a slew of other background processes). You can lower some settings (AA is a big one; and if you were to add in an SMAA injector you may actually see better quality images with lower AA settings and less resource usage). You can use optimized textures, or optimize them yourself with something like Optimizer Textures.
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When cleaning a file in TES5Edit, you should only load the file your cleaning and it's explicit dependencies (which IIRC, are automatically loaded if they're available).I also get tons of dirty files but if I use TES3Edit I just get thousands of errors which I just cant seem to sort out...
The big thing that needs cleaning there is the UDRs as they can cause major issues if a mod loading further down in your list tries to alter a reference that was deleted in a plugin loaded before it.
The ITMs can also cause issues but rarely are they as troublesome as the UDRs can be.
If you get an error for a particular file while trying to load it into Edit, feel free to post a PrintScreen image of it here and someone should be able to point you in the right direction.
Onto the next issue, you need to get Wrye Bash and make a Bashed Patch. You have a lot of mods that alter leveled lists and without a bashed patch, only the last version of a list will take precedent. Bash will combine them for you.
And that deleted NavMesh warning could be a big problem if any other mod in your load order relies on that particular NavMesh.
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It's weird that the Skyrim.esm wasn't there, but other than that my game is fine, I get the occasional crash during loading a save or going through a loading screen when moving from place to place but it isn't something I'm going to fuss over compared to the issues I was having before.
Thanks for all the help everyone, I'll be sure to look back on this thread if anything starts to act the same as it did before my clean install.
Is this with Autosave on? If so, you could be seeing issues from savegame bloat. How large is your most recent save file?
It could also be the Papyrus VM running out of RAM, but this is a theoretical crash source. The game pauses all scripts during saves and stores the VM in memory, reloading all of these causes a huge spike in the Papyrus VM's memory usage. It's pretty much impossible to say this is definitively the cause of crashing during saves. Increasing the following line under the [Papyrus] section of Skyrim.ini may or may not clear it up:
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=76800
That's the default value (about 75KB). It's pretty safe to bump it up to 1MB (1048576). Anything past that is probably pretty senseless and ridiculous numbers (like the oh-so-often used/recommended 2GB) is probably going to cause problems. This number is just how much System RAM Papyrus can claim at any given time, not how much RAM Skyrim itself uses.
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Try using "sexchange" in the console twice to reset your spell effects. Chick third person, scroll into first, and then check third again to make sure it doesn't return. If that doesn't work, you're going to have to do some homework and then remove the spell effect in the same manner as the Draugr eye fix. I believe this effect is related to the hell hounds.
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@ MShoap13: Would the CPU load matter depending on setup? Like.. Skyrim has never done this to me and this has been the lightest I've had it (I've hit the 190 mark a few times with mods without any issue) and my computer never stutters or lags itself when running Skyrim, just unexpected freezing out of nowhere that never resolve or bounce back (hence the "crashing").
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
CPU
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 3.50GHz
Ivy Bridge 22nm Technology
RAM
16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 670MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. MAXIMUS V FORMULA (LGA1155)
Graphics
2048MB GeForce GTX 680 (nVidia)
@ Xetaxheb: Thanks!
Highly, highly doubt it. If you were on an i3-410 or something it might be an issue, but still an unlikely source of freezing IMO.
Next time it freezes, open the task manager and check how much RAM Skyrim is using.
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Ugrids are not listed in your Skyrim.ini by default.....the reason being that Bethesda doesn't want you changing that value as it can create greater instability issues for the player. So if you're wanting to add some of the .ini edits/tweaks that have been posted in this topic, I'd suggest that you research on what each does, and where you place it within your .ini. One thing that I did experience when I used an edited .ini file (especially with a modified ugrid) was that once I changed that value and started playing, when I created saves, they HAD to be loaded up with the same ugrid value they were created with. So if I had a character that I was running around with my Ugrids set at 7....and then I started having stability issues again and wanted to change it back to 5....Once I made that change and tried to load that save game that was created with the setting at 7, I would immediately CTD.
It's something to think about....you might lose a bunch of saves over a setting that may or may not get you the results you want in the long run.
The workaround for this has been known since Fallout 3 (at least).
Load your save, alt+tab out and open your Skyrim.ini, set uGrids back to the default of 5, save the .ini, alt+tab back into the game, open the console and run "refini", make a new save.
It's advised to backup your old save (or at least not overwrite it). It's also advised to immediately exit to the menu and then load the new save you just made to make sure the uGrids change took.
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You would have to add those 2 lines manually to your skyrim.ini. They are not listed in it by default.
I'd imagine now with a fresh/clean install, your issues will clear out. The extracting of the .bsa? I can't remember for certain, and I am in no way meaning to minimize the help you were offered....but if I remember correctly, I think I recall that as not being an ideal thing to do. The files were packed into .bsa files for a reason...extracting them and then dumping them into you data folder was not their intended purpose.
But like I said, I am not certain....and I don't want/mean to dispute any suggestions when I myself can't debate whether or not the advice was good. So I'd just say to research that a bit...IF you have to go that route. But here is hoping that you don't now after your new install. :smile:
The .bsa's are packed for easier internal working and streamlined distribution. They're packed with ultra-light compression and unpacking the OHRTP .bsa's only real negatives are increased clutter in your loose files and about 20MB's of disk space. The positives are reduced CPU overhead (decompression), reduced load stutter, and reduced System RAM usage. The reduction in RAM use is primarily triggered if you're running a large texture pack like 2K HD, Book of Silence, or multiple replacers.
There are a number of issues you can run into with messing with the .bsa's. You usually see these types of issues from repacking the .bsa's without extreme care. There may or may not be issues from unpacking the root/DLC .bsa's but I can say for certain that unpacking the OHRTP is a safe and effective way to reduce the performance and stability impact it has on a heavily modded game.
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Can you monitor your System RAM usage in the background? Freezes usually occur from maxing out the 32-bit engine's limit (around 3.2 GB). If Skyrim is getting close to this limit, CleanMem may be able to at least prolong your playtime before experiencing a freeze. A guide with some possibly useful information on CleanMem and Skyrim can be found here.
Your crashes may be due to Papyrus overload. You've got quite a number of mods that run scripts in the background plus WarZONES which gets really Papyrus heavy when it spawns 10 actors at once. Adding/altering the following lines under the [Papyrus] section of your Skyrim.ini (located at \My Documents\My Games\Skyrim\) may increase stability:
fUpdateBudgetMS=1.2 fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.2
These are delays where the game literally pauses for x milliseconds, every-so-often, in order for the Papyrus VM to do it's thing. Increasing these may increase stability. The values shown (1.2) are the default values. I'd start between 10 and 12 for both settings and then, if that helps, bump it down from there. Setting these too high will cause massive microstutter, too low can be a source of crashes. So far two people I've helped (who had similarly Papyrus heavy load orders) have seen improvements in stability through increasing these. Please post back if these tweaks help; details (regarding whether or not they helped you, how low you were able to tweak them, etc.) would be appreciated.
Regarding the Official High Res Texture Pack comment from earlier, an alternative solution would be to unpack the .bsa's (with BSAOpt or a similar program), copy them as loose files to your \Skyrim\Data\Textures\ directory, and then setting the game up to not load the .bsa archives (either via .esp or the .ini resource list) may be an effective alternative. Obviously, choosing not to overwrite any files belonging to other texture replacers would be recommended. You can even pack the OHRTP into a .7zip and use NMM/MO to install it for easy install/uninstall/overwrite history. If three different versions of a texture exist (one in the normal textures.bsa, one in the HRTP.bsa and one in loose files, the game loads all three into memory. This tip cuts out the redundantly loaded textures without losing the high res textures that aren't covered by other mods. I believe this can even be done with the normal textures.bsa though the impact on memory would be much smaller as it's textures are, on average, about four times smaller than the OHRTP.
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Could you post your BOSS log (preferably in a /spoiler tag)?
Your OS, System Memory, and Graphics card would also be useful information.
Also, if you've made any tweaks to your .ini's could you post those in /spoiler tags as well.
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When you reduce the delays below 12 you crash?! :blink:
Reproccer being last in the load order doesn't affect stability at all. It's just to ensure that it's changes aren't being overwritten. So long as it's below all of the plugins you incorporated into it, it should be fine.
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Maybe try "Default" instead of "Optional" in the TypeDescriptor.
If that doesn't work, and you can find a scripted install that does what you want it to do (SMIM may) take a look at it's install script and see if you can't figure it out from there. :thumbsup:
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You should look into Tendo's ReProccer, I'm pretty sure this is the kind of thing he made it for. Not a SkyRe user myself so I could be wrong, but it's worth a shot.
Memory optimization tweak
in Skyrim LE
Posted · Edited by MShoap13
The First two cards are decent choices though I'd honestly expect the single-fan 7950 to be the quietest and it will definitely out-perform both the 7870s. It's hard to be sure about the fans, but the swept blade fan design (on the 7950) both dampens fan noise and increases the pressure of the fan (the spec that really matters on fans forcing air through a heatsink). Additionally, both the 7870's appear to have very shallow fans which means they spin faster and make more noise to move the same amount of air.
At $280 that 7950 is a steal. Stay away from the XFX, the cooler is shoddy and their support is terrible so if you're unlucky and get a DOA/malfunctioning card, you're going to have a terrible time replacing it with a working one. One of the reviewers, there on Newegg, went through 3 different cards (the original, and two refurbished ones) and still didn't get one that worked properly. Out of all the 7870's on Newegg, at the time I'm writing this, this PowerColor card, intrigues me the most.