MarchinBunny

Hey, Remember when you said this way back on Page 44, THREE DAYS ago that that was your only reply? When are you planning on doing that? Hey .. remember you already added me to the ignore list? Isn't that done as a means to ignore me? When are you planning on doing that?

Quote me where I did all of the things you are claiming. Quote where I implied someone is mentally deficient for disagreeing. Quote me where I am lying to support a point? Quote me where I am taking something out of context, or twisting something someone said. Quote me where I "derailed" the conversation. As I have said, the topic is about trying to understand, an I am giving my perspective on things just like anyone else here. Meaning it's not derailed, you just don't like what I have to say. I am not here to defend Robin, I am here to defend the idea. As I have already stated, it could be any site ... and I would defend it all the same because I think it's a good idea. Also, I am not a troll. You all are more like trolls than me because all you ever do is comment with insults ad hominems ... and bulls***.

Don't care. All you prove is you didn't read a word I said. Meaning, I am glad you blocked me because it means the conversation would have never gone anywhere with you. Also, pointing it out shows how mature you are .. aka not at all. Edit: Honestly, it seems people here overuse the ignore function over disagreements, reminds me of twitter. I really don't understand what is so hard about having a conversation. I can understand ignoring people over petty insults or just plain trolling (actual trolling) ... but some users on this site ... no wonder nexus didn't bother telling you all to begin with. They probably were well aware of how some of you don't want to listen to anything but what is in agreement with you. Also, I am going to make this clear for the rest of you. Ignoring those who disagree with you isn't going to lead to anything good. Why would anyone listen to what you have to say when you are unwilling to listen yourself? You might as well leave now. And I am not saying listen ... as in agree with me. But ignoring people you disagree with is not the way to do things, that just shows how insignificant you think your own arguments are that you don't even want to see someone point out what they disagree with.

Not to try and offend you or anything, but I think this is a bit of a fallacy. Because I never argued that Nexus is or isn't part of the community. Basically, you are arguing against a point I never made. When I spoke about working together, I meant working together to improve things. Nexus as a site is indeed irrelevant in that. But the thing is, what Nexus is trying to do ... is improve things. At the moment, some just disagree with the method they are going with, where as I personally agree. But it could be any other site, and I would still stick up for it because I think it's a great idea. I don't know if this really answers my question. As I feel like something like this can happen either way. As in if someone only updated some of their mods but has some outdated mods too. Plus, a simple solution for something like this is to ask for their full modlist including mod versions. I always feel like that should be one of the first questions asked, because then you can determine if any of their mods are outdated that might be causing the issue. Alternatively, you could say that you don't support older mod versions, and suggest they update their load order entirely if they would like help. It just ... I feel like there are a lot of solutions to this problem that don't require deleting older files. Which brings me back to my first point. This can happen even if you do delete the files. Because deleting them doesn't delete it off of everyone's computer. Anyone can keep an old version installed for really any length of time. What is the context of the ModDrop thing? Because if it was so they can retain her mods, it sounds more like a bribe than what we are talking about here lol. And as for paid content on steam, that is also a bit different than what we are talking about here at least ... I think assuming we we are on the same page, but maybe not. As paid content requires users to buy the mod ... correct? Not really the same thing as Nexus kind of just donating to mod authors and creating a point system and all that. Although, it's already been established that mod authors pay Nexus for premium so it kinda negates their contribution a bit and negates my point on this matter almost entirely.

I don't see how that is a good reason to just do whatever they want. I am a creator, and even I don't think people should bend over backwards to just listen to everything I say. There are lines that have to be drawn somewhere. Also, we are not even talking about something illegal here. The files are uploaded HERE on this site uploaded by the creator. No one is accessing it from anywhere else when they create a list. So it's not the same thing.

Earlier on in this thread, you said it would be easy enough to implement an opt out collections system. The bottom line: it is possible to streamline the process of creating a load order without encouraging-and even creating the tool to allow people to-use a mod file in a manner that the owner does not approve of. To be honest, I don't think a mod author's view on how a mod is downloaded or installed should matter. I can't think of a single good reason why they should have that right to tell everyone else how things should be done in that regard. If I created a list of mods of the most essentially mods, and linked to downloads for each of the mods in that list ... I would never listen to a mod author trying to tell me I can't do that with their mod because it's ridiculous. That would be like a mod author telling which mod organizer I can and cannot use with their mod. An opt out would be the exact same thing as doing that, because all a collection is ... is a list of mods and where to get them. Not even curseforge has an opt out as far as I am aware.

I think you have to understand that the reason I am on Nexus' side is because I have seen what can come out of modding communities when they work together instead of against each other. In other words, I want this to work. And so when I see something of which I would consider a very minor inconvenience vs what can come out of such a change, it just seems worth it by a pretty large margin. I understand inconveniences ... no matter how small can be annoying. But in this case, I think it's important to look at the bigger picture here as well as the reasoning behind it. My two favorite games are Minecraft, and Skyrim ... these are the two games I can say I have played thousands of hours of. And what I have seen come out of the Minecraft community when "modpacks" (collections) became popular was amazing. It wasn't just people throwing mods together into a giant mess. What happened is you had pack creators create a union between the mods, some packs going as far as to create their own mods just to get it to work and create new and unique experiences we would never have had if not for that ability to exist. And I also understand that they didn't have to go through the problem of mod deletion, and so they can still go on their page and just remove everything if they wanted to. But I also understand that Minecraft, and Skyrim are not the same games. Modding works differently between the two. And so, I understand why Nexus would want to make the decision that mods can't be fully deleted because it would cause a lot of issues, more so than it typically would for a game like Minecraft. Last but not least, no matter what is said, no matter the reasoning ... not everyone is going to agree with it. And I am absolutely sure Nexus was already aware of that. Heck, even I knew this would happen as the years went by with each Vortex release getting closer and closer to the inevitable collections they have continued to talk about. No one is saying you have to agree with it. No one is forcing anyone to agree. But I just don't know what anyone wants who is against this but not leaving. They act like telling them to go their separate ways is some sort of slight against them or rude. But ... that's life. We all go our separate ways sometimes, that's just how it is. It's not anyone trying to be mean, it's just them speaking the truth. If you don't like it, then .... move on. It can't hurt to try and create your own platforms, and maybe you will find a better solution than Nexus. But as of now, it's Nexus I personally agree with here, and so I am going to stick to defending them unless someone offers up something that changes my mind. And let me be clear, I do think a system that allows deletion of mods could work. I just understand why Nexus doesn't want to go that route. Right, but that is about personal information. That isn't going to help you remove everything you've ever posted on the internet. Right, but giving it some sort of explanation on how, can help me to understand. Cause as of now, I see plenty of other communities where they pretty much never delete old versions, and don't seem to have this problem. For example, Thaumcraft for minecraft actually has quite significantly different versions based on the version of minecraft it was released on. Tons of changes, and the old version is still up. Had no issues with adoption rates of the new version. Or rather, I just don't think it actually matters. Some people will continue to play 1.17.10, and some play on 1.12, and some play on the newest version. If it's about support, like if you don't want to deal with getting massaged about a version you have not worked on in a while, just say you dropped support for it ... right? Rather than taking it away, just tell them they are on their own. They throw a fit, ignore them, ban them ... whatever you want. Already happens anyway, so not much is going to change there. Ok, then just name one. Cause it's news to me. As for the premium and how much you get in donations. That's a good point, one I most certainly didn't consider. To be honest, I think Nexus should make Premium free for mod authors if they reach a certain threshold with their mod in terms of ... maybe endorsements or downloads. Seems odd you would have your contributors pay. So see ... here is an argument I think is a really good point. Just for those who just constantly want to call me a troll and act like I will only ever disagree. Right, but the author has the ability to hide archived files. Meaning if it was uploaded, and then soon after archived, it's extremely unlikely anyone would have the information to even access the archived file which would have to be done through the API. Something I also want to point out, and this is kind of a little more on the technical side of things in terms of computers in general. No file is ever truly deleted even when you "delete it" regardless of where on the internet you posted it. That isn't how storage typically works, all it does is remove the pointer to the files, it's essentially the equivalent of archiving. The same even occurs on your own computer. The only time a file becomes entirely inaccessible is when it's essentially been overwritten, and there is no way to be sure when that happens. It's why you can load up a recovery program and essentially undelete a file you just deleted it.

I think it stands to reason that people working together to make things better is always the way to go. As in, I do think mod authors should care and at least view it as a problem that they would want to help with to not make things such a burden. It's why mod authors in the minecraft community don't just constantly delete things because they know tons of people rely on those files remaining up. Pretty sure it does. It's not giving up your rights, it's giving permission to distribute, to make things simpler. Giving up your rights would insinuate you don't have a choice in the matter, when you absolutely do. And this doesn't even put anymore burden on the mod author. If anything this would alleviate some of that burden when a mod list is broken due to a removed mod and then a user coming to you to complain the mod list doesn't work because you removed it. And then when they install the new version and it doesn't work due to patches, they will complain even more to you that it doesn't work. Then you will tell them to complain to the curator. Is it not easier to just not delete the file? I don't understand what the problem is with that, this kind of thing is done already in a lot of different places. And I suppose I could say, maybe it shouldn't be forced through a ToS. But I suspect many would purposefully try and sabotage the system since they were against collections from the start. You realize that recalling a vehicle requires that it is given back ... right? It's typically strictly done for issues that could be dangerous without it being fixed. And if it's taken for a long period of time they give you a rental.

Also, this is what causes more of an echo chamber. Just block or ignore anyone who disagrees with you. But hey ... if that is what you all want, then go ahead. Doesn't bother me, not like it's going to change anything at the end of the day.

The funny thing is what you are accusing me of isn't even something I did. I didn't say anyone was pathetic as far as I am aware. Nor did I really make fun of anyone. Though, I would be curious if you could actually quote what part of what I said that makes you feel I was belittling others, rather than just accusing me of it. And as for why no one has a serious discussion with me is the same exact reason why an admin can try and discuss things and you all literally do the same to them. The truth is, you don't want to discuss it unless it's in agreement with you. I also don't lack empathy, nor do I lack self awareness (which is you belittling me btw). I just think you are hearing things poorly from me because that is the way you want to hear them because I am not on your side. Again, I not once belittled anyone for still talking about this. I only pointed out how I thought it was interesting many who disagree with Nexus have still not moved on, like as if something is going to change even though they have been fairly clear on their intentions. I also pointed out that it was an echo chamber in here which it has been. Maybe I said it in a way that came off poorly, and for that I am sorry. It's really not my intention. But if you really think that is why no one is discussing this seriously with me ... I am going to have to disagree with you there. I don't think that is the reason because this is how you all were responding to me and anyone who didn't agree back when this news was first announced as well (so quick to call anyone a troll as well). I think some of you really should look in the mirror sometimes or reevaluate how you yourself are coming off. That is why being in an echo chamber can be bad, because it means you can do a lot of things that come off poorly but no one is going to point it out cause they agree with you. Why do you think you never point out anyone else who comes off poorly when they are on your side? Like for example 1ae0bfb8 is particularly bad in the way they respond to people. It's like they don't think a human is on the other side of the screen.

Wow ... you are a mean person lol. 1. I am not a troll. 2. I am not a bot. Not even sure how you would think that is possible as bots are usually pretty easy to differentiate based on not typically being able to always give contextual responses. Not even going to go much further into this cause at this point you might as well be a conspiracy theorist. 3. Disagreeing isn't trolling, and I really have no idea why you constantly act like it is. 4. Context and location matters on whether or not I agree or disagree. Yes, here on Nexus on these particular subjects like this I disagree a lot because many in the thread disagree with me. But if I talk about this same exact subject, say ... on Reddit ... you will find I agree with a lot of people too because there are more people who have a similar viewpoint as me on this matter. In fact, almost any news article I read .. it seemed the most common comment below it involved how often mods vanish because of drama and how this was a much needed change. Last but not least, disagreements always lead to more being said then when you agree with someone. 5. Derailing suggests I would be taking the thread off topic. But we are literally on topic, meaning it's not being derailed. Derailing a thread would be like me coming here and starting to talk about politics or some crap like that, entirely unrelated to the subject. 6. I don't really mock people. So not entirely sure what you mean. You are the one going around calling me a bot and troll, and mocking admins after they explain their position.

The truth is ... if you ask anyone who has seen success within a group, they almost always will think they have contributed the most. It's a real thing, look it up. No one can seem to actually gauge their contribution as well as they seem to think they can ... and will more often than not attribute the success to themselves. And that is what I think is happening here. I think you are not really giving enough credit for all the work that has gone into a place like Nexusmods. But ... hey, I suggest you go give it a try yourself ... and maybe you will then understand. It's fine to make them for yourself. But the moment you share them, is the moment it becomes for other users. And if you say otherwise, you are lying to yourself. There is literally no point in sharing something if you are not expecting others to use it. Also, many mod authors are quite frankly just as entitled because they think everyone owes them for their creation. The truth is no one owes mod authors anything because they were not hired to do it, they chose to do it themselves. Don't like the idea of sharing? Then stop doing it lol. Nexus wouldn't have ownership of mods, they would simply have distribution permissions, literally given by the owner of the mod due to the agreement between the author and the site's ToS. It's entirely limited to this site. So to try and paint it like they are taking ownership is bullcrap and untrue. You can keep calling it trolling all you like, it doesn't make it true. I am just a person who doesn't agree with you. Also, my comprehension of the issue is just fine.

Just because I referenced youtube doesn't mean you need to point out they allow content creators to delete their videos, when I never once even suggested they couldn't. You are just saying something I am already aware of. Plus, youtube isn't the same as Nexus, it's not an apples to apples comparison. A better comparison would be something like Curseforge. In which case, they do allow you to also delete your files ... but there is a pretty big difference. Minecraft mods rarely break mod lists. The only time such a thing could is if it's a library mod that another mod relies on (mind you when you load up minecraft it literally tells you the mod is missing it). The only other time a mod missing could cause problems is in cases where the mod list in particular heavily relies on it and there are a lot of recipe changes involving it. Another difference is ... the mod authors over there don't typically delete their mods. Go on any mod page, go to the files section and scroll down at all the different versions of the mod still up. Alphas, betas, full releases ... all still there. Where as here, it's not that uncommon for mod authors to delete the previous version after uploading a new one. It's also far less rare for mod authors to just fully delete their entire mod over drama. Has happened, but definitely not as often as here. Point being is the mods for BGS games in particular are very different and more finicky when you just remove one from your load order due to patches that typically need to be made for such a list to work properly. And I am going to be frank ... I think a big part of this decision in forcing archiving is due to trust issues, as in ... because of the past and the way mod authors have done things, it's very hard to trust them that they will not continue to do it. Especially considering there ARE mod authors here who just hate the idea of collections entirely. There are even a few mods that are removed literally saying that is the reason rather than not being able to delete their mods. Now to discuss the reasons you are giving. 1. If you find a security issue, and it's soon after you released the file, it's unlikely it's going to be in any collections that quickly and remain accessible. If you find this security issue later, where many have already downloaded the mod ... at that point it really doesn't matter, it's already being used regardless. Your best option in that case would be to contact Nexus, and let them know of the circumstances, and maybe they can remove it and help notify collection curators. But I am going to say, most mods would not create a "security" issue, at least not by accident. 2. So? I don't really understand what you think someone would include in a mod that would be that embarrassing. Seems like an absurd reason. Just don't do it lmao. And if you do ... put something embarrassing in your mod that you didn't mean to leave in ... then contact Nexus and see if they can help you. They may allow you to delete it for that reason if it seems legitimate enough. But again, don't do it. That is dumb ... why would you put embarrassing crap in your mod? 3. You can't force people to forget, so I don't know what you even mean by this. Also ... If you want to take it back then don't offer it in the first place. 4. There really is no good reason to do this. I don't see how removing an older version of a mod would help in anyway for the newer version be supported in the modding scene. Plus, people will just use what they like to use ... why is that a problem. For example, if one user likes the older version of a house mod ... why is it such a problem they want to use that version? And if more people are downloading the older mod, then doesn't that suggest they like it better? Removing the old version doesn't change that, all it does is irritate people because now you are trying to force them to only use the version you want them too. And then it just leads to other people sharing the older mod through other ways like uploading it somewhere else. 5. BS ... I can't even think of a single hosting service that even does that. Nexus is the only modding source that I am aware of that actually donates to mod authors. And licensing? Since when do mod authors give out licenses? In most cases hey would just upload the thing to both places to double dip. 6. Contact nexus and I am sure they will help you with it. Like .. I don't understand why you seem to think they would keep files under any circumstance ... they literally said otherwise and files would still be removed in such cases. It's like you all ignore everything that is said. 7. If it was reuploaded right away, it will be inaccessible anyway. Again, it be unlikely someone would add it to a collection within such a short period of time. And even if someone did and it didn't work .. they would find out as soon as the tested the collection and would then look to fix it. Meaning it's not even likely it would ever stay in a collection if it didn't work. Again, nexus has specifically said they would delete mods in a case by case basis. Mods that break rules, or copyright issues .. .etc. Chances are, if there was something inappropriate in the mod ... they would have no problems allowing it to be removed.

This isn't based on reality. I don't think you realize how difficult it is to run a site as large as Nexus Mods. There is a lot of work that gets put into it, way more work than most mods on this site. And it's not even just the site that they have put work into, but mod managers as well. They even created a community that is probably more willing to throw some money at mod developers than most communities out there. They even created a point system to try and give back. It's not something they ever had to do, but they did. You are not going to find that pretty much anywhere else. And if you think it's strictly the mod authors that built this site. Then go ahead, build a competing site. No one is stopping you from doing so. Now as for whether or not you can scorch it all. Sorry, but that would require way more mod authors being on your side. It isn't about "fortitude" it's about a difference of opinion. No one is discounting the effort required to keep this site going, however, without mod authors, it wouldn't be here. At all. There would be no reason for it. Ya, but the same can be true if you remove any factor. Without users, mod authors wouldn't upload it as there would be no point and they certainly wouldn't get any recognition, donations, or anything really. Without some site like this, the mod authors wouldn't have a place to upload it too, or they may not get the traffic that comes from a site like this. Functionally none of it can really work as well as it does missing any piece.

This isn't based on reality. I don't think you realize how difficult it is to run a site as large as Nexus Mods. There is a lot of work that gets put into it, way more work than most mods on this site. And it's not even just the site that they have put work into, but mod managers as well. They even created a community that is probably more willing to throw some money at mod developers than most communities out there. They even created a point system to try and give back. It's not something they ever had to do, but they did. You are not going to find that pretty much anywhere else. And if you think it's strictly the mod authors that built this site. Then go ahead, build a competing site. No one is stopping you from doing so. Now as for whether or not you can scorch it all. Sorry, but that would require way more mod authors being on your side. It isn't about "fortitude" it's about a difference of opinion.

I understand that, which is why those who disagree have the option to just use a different platform to distribute their mods, or if they feel the need to ... just keep them for themselves. The issue here is people who disagree with Nexus don't seem to want to make a decision. No one here is telling you are not allowed to disagree. What is being said is that you have to make a choice at some point. If you are only staying here because you think maybe if you hold out long enough or complain long enough ... maybe they will retract their decision ... then you are the ones who need to convince them they should do that. What you all are doing isn't in the least bit convincing though. It's just a back and forth between those who agree with one another without any offering any solutions. It's more or less just "I don't like it, don't do it". And anytime an admin goes into an explanation, no one seems to actually respond to it in a way that they can do anything with. And rather than coming up with solutions to the problems they bring up, many of you just ignore it ... some throw insults, threaten them, say they are lying. It's just a bunch of people pointing fingers without any conversation actually happening even when the other side tries. Multiple options have been presented. Staff has flat out told us they aren't going to change their minds on this. These threads are essentially for folks to blow off steam. Sure, a lot of folks aren't happy about the change, but, the alternative is to nuke ALL of their mods here. Sure, they could re-upload the ones that would like to remain here, but, there goes their download count, endorsements, comments, etc. For some, that is significant. Nexus gave the ultimatum as their 'solution' to the problem. Some choice, eh? Maybe I am missing these options you are talking about cause what I have seen presented is just things people want them to do of which they already said they are not going to. So it's up to you all, to come up with something maybe they didn't think about. Rather than keep giving the same options of which they have already told you why they feel it wouldn't work. For example, many keep asking for an opt out and they have literally gone over why they are not going to do that. Now it's up to you to refute their point, or come up with a different solution. That's just typically how discussions work. If you feel they are wrong, then tell them how they are wrong (keeping in mind it needs an actual explanation and not just say "you are wrong" or "You don't know what you are talking about" or "You are a troll" etc.) Something to really remember is any platform can change. This is the downside to using a platform that you do not own as it typically means you don't have much control over it outside if just giving your opinion. And changes occur for any number of reasons, some of which there will typically always be disagreement over. And sometimes those changes end up not being as big of a deal and are soon just forgotten about. Where as some changes, some people just can't accept and just end up leaving even if it isn't necessarily what they wanted. It's pretty much impossible to do anything that everyone is just going to accept and agree with. There was always going to be push back on the idea of collections because this community has been very vocal in that area, especially some mod authors who just despise the idea. And of course there was always going to be push back on the whole archiving mods thing as well. I just don't know what everyone here is expecting. Outside of airing some grievances, what is the point? Should those who are unsure be looking into what they may do next? Like if it was me and disagreed with this decision, I wouldn't be here yapping, I would be looking at how to deal with it. Maybe even creating my own platform for my mods. Afterall, if it's popular enough I don't think many are going to care where they need to get it from, and typically the community will follow you wherever you decide to go. Download count is honestly just a number, same with upvotes, or likes. I would argue it's actually much healthier learning to ignore that, so if anything having it reset may even be good to try and separate yourself of such a stresses. If you love what you do, then none of that should really matter at the end of the day ... right? I imagine in many cases, some authors may even come back after a period of time. If things continue on, and the change isn't as world ending as it seems ... maybe some can just learn to live with it and set aside that little bit of control. The thing is ... I don't have the answers. I can only give my own view and opinions on the matter.

I understand that, which is why those who disagree have the option to just use a different platform to distribute their mods, or if they feel the need to ... just keep them for themselves. The issue here is people who disagree with Nexus don't seem to want to make a decision. No one here is telling you are not allowed to disagree. What is being said is that you have to make a choice at some point. If you are only staying here because you think maybe if you hold out long enough or complain long enough ... maybe they will retract their decision ... then you are the ones who need to convince them they should do that. What you all are doing isn't in the least bit convincing though. It's just a back and forth between those who agree with one another without any offering any solutions. It's more or less just "I don't like it, don't do it". And anytime an admin goes into an explanation, no one seems to actually respond to it in a way that they can do anything with. And rather than coming up with solutions to the problems they bring up, many of you just ignore it ... some throw insults, threaten them, say they are lying. It's just a bunch of people pointing fingers without any conversation actually happening even when the other side tries.

And yet, you are still commenting...remarkable. How bout you do what you said you would do? :cool: I know ... right. Yeesh ... I should really learn to not get involved in these things cause I have such a hard time just leaving it. People always typically say things that really makes me want to respond. All well.

Not having content on here at the moment doesn't mean I can't have my own views on things. Plus, I plan to upload here in the future anyway. I could even upload something now if you want just to prove to you that whether or not I have a mod on here really doesn't make a lick of difference in my opinion. I have just never uploaded here in particular because most of my mods where Half-Life DM maps hosted on a site called the snarkpit. Not even sure if the site still exists. And while I have dabbled in the creation kit, I have never actually made anything I felt was worth uploading. But I do have a mod up for the sims 4, on the site modthesims. Could upload it here as well. Just never seen Nexus as much of a sims 4 mod source if you know what I mean.

See this person, literally never answers anyone who disagrees with them and just name calls, and insults. Ignoring literally everything. How can anyone ever come to any sort of agreement or compromise if you are simply unwilling to make an effort and discuss things? This person in particular is the definition of projection. They are the one trolling, but like to call everyone else a troll. You know this is true because at least I am providing my view and thoughts on things and giving arguments. As in I am adding to the conversation. Where as they, it's just .. .as I said ... spewing garbage and nothing more. It's no wonder they have nearly 4k posts. Quantity and no quality. No substance.

Can anyone actually give a downside to this change? And I don't mean ... the "I don't want to lose control over my work" .. I already understand that. What I mean is ... let's say this change occurs and those who decide to stay accept those terms of not being able to fully delete their work, as in it's archived and is only able to be downloaded when it's in a collection. What is the downside? Point is, it all just comes off to me like an overly emotional response more than there is anything legitimately wrong with it. And it's not like the site is forcing it on you either as it's not like they are taking it without asking. They are giving you a choice and it may not seem like a good choice to you, but it still is a choice. And ... I also don't see why so many are hesitant to move on. I get, in a way, you could view this site as your home (metaphorically), but right now you have a difference of opinion with the owner of said home. In a way, I guess it's kind like when you disagree with a parent who technically owns the house, or maybe a roommate who is renting a room out to you. It can suck ... I get that. But is it so wrong to just accept the difference of opinion and go your own way? Sometimes in life you will not have all the options you want, so you just have to choose the one that works best for you. I didn't say that in that context. You should probably read the entire thing. Just disagreeing isn't the same as derailing a thread. It's literally still on topic.

I didnt even read bunny person's comment fully. I started, and after a view seconds...I just laughed and moved on. Which is interesting how you are unwilling to read any point fully that disagrees with your own ... isn't it? At least I read your comments even if I disagree with you. Because unlike you ... I am not closed minded in a bubble not wanting to hear anything that could possibly go against my own view. And here ... I will keep this short for you and just leave it at that, since you have a hard time reading.

Funny, I have been an on and off premium user and just decided yesterday (technically today, but much earlier before going to sleep) to pay for the lifetime membership ... only to see this news today. Honestly, with the upcoming changes, and being able to download full mod lists ... to me that alone makes it worth it. It's a feature I have wanted on this site for years.

It's interesting this is still going on. I would think those who disagree would have just moved on by now and left instead of constantly arguing back and forth over something that clearly isn't going to change. Just a minority of people in a bubble who can't accept change, and just want to continually argue about it because they think they couldn't possibly be wrong. Think it's some kind of knightly crusade they are on to free people from the evils of this world, or bring truth. To battle the oppressor. It's practically no different then when you go on youtube and you hear people talking about conspiracy theories and they try and be loud to try and get people to listen, but the only people who ever do listen are just the same people who already agree with them and are often doing the same exact thing. They live in a world of lies, one that they themselves created and just get a feedback loop to make them feel like they are correct. I have read through a lot of these comments, and people who are against this change ... something I have noticed is they don't actually have any good arguments against it ... in fact ... they don't even have bad arguments, they just don't like it. It's all based on emotion which is why these conversation often end up with insults being thrown rather than actually providing something to refute what has been said. And why they typically go in circles. And the even more hilarious thing is all the people talking about law who don't seem to actually know how copyright works. All bark ... and no one brave enough to actually try and sue, wonder why. The fact some of you do not understand that you, as in the copyright holder, can give permission for someone else to redistribute your work under a contract, there is nothing illegal about that. And by law when you do that under some form of contract, you must uphold your end of that contract. Being the copyright holder doesn't just give you free reign to undo legitimate contracts that you agreed too. As an artist (and having made mods in the past), it always shocks me how many people don't actually know the law, specifically in terms of copyright ... especially when they deal in creating content themselves. They only go on the internet and constantly bicker back and forth on what they "think" the law is or what they "think" is or isn't allowed based on what they like or dislike rather than reality. The entire reason you as the copyright holder can give such rights is because most businesses function in that manner, where you have the manufacturer and the distributor. You can't have one individual making an agreement with a distributor and then just allow them to go back on their word, it would be against the law to do that because you have a legally binding contract with them. That is literally the whole point of a contract, so one party can't screw the other party over. If you could just break it and not have any sort of repercussions in doing so ... contracts would not work. This means, if you know at this point in time what the ToS is, and Nexus can prove that you are aware, such as in this very thread where you are literally talking about it ... you would not win a lawsuit against them if you chose to upload or keep your mods here. Nor would you even have the moral ground to stand on an act like they are taking away your rights. No ... no one is forcing you to use this site. If you decide to use it, your rights are not being taken ... it is you giving the site permission to have the right to distribute. You can't claim it's being taken when you are the one giving it. But whatever, this will be the only reply from me. I just can't believe you all are still at it. ... and it's funny cause it's the same people, same conversation, nothing new, same misinformation from people who actually don't know what they are talking about but like to hear themselves talk ... for like 40+ pages now lol. Like as if the ridiculous long conversation on the announcement thread or on reddit, or under news articles ... wasn't enough. But hey, maybe it just needs another 40+ pages. Have fun. Edit: Funny thing is, the next comment quite literally proves the point I just made. No arguments, just insults, and ad homs. And they call me a troll? XD Amazing. I will say though, they in particular are one of the worst. Literally all their comments are pretty much just spewing garbage, even when it's toward the admins just explaining their position.

See, here is the problem with that sort of anecdotal evidence. Many people don't have these issues. The thing about bugs or a software not handling something well, is it should be reproducible and effect everyone.Typically when only some people have a problem with something it's because they have done something wrong or they are trying to use Vortex beyond what it's capable of. For example, if you are looking to edit individual files in a mod, I wouldn't recommend Vortex. MO2 is much better for putting together mods where you plan to pick and choose certain files from each mod. Also, if someone's way to give support is to tell them to switch software, it means they are not very good at giving support. The only time you should tell someone to switch is when the problem is due to them trying to do something the software isn't capable of. In which case that isn't the software's fault. Just because someone requires a different tool doesn't mean the previous tool didn't work well for how it was intended to be used.