Sharlikran
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Posts posted by Sharlikran
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I don't get to play any of the games much at all. It would seem to be very frustrating to play from level 1 to 30 and travel all over the place only to hit about level 35ish and then you crash all the time. I've experienced crashes in the past but it's never for the same reason. The two things I do try to fix or work out are deleted objects and deleted navmeshes.
Not all mods always need to be cleaned. However, there is no reason you can't apply the Filter for cleaning and then using only the UDR function. It will undelete deleted objects like trees and rocks and place them out of reach of the game. So even if an author says don't clean my mod, well then don't but I can't think of any good reason not to deal with UDRs. Meaning don't use the ITM routine just the UDR routine.
With an unmodded game dirty edits in the DLC won't affect your game at all. With a modded game anything that loads after a mod with UDRs will cause a crash if it's accessing a deleted object from a mod higher in your load order. So at Hex 40 you have ModA.esp with 100 UDRs and at Hex 45 you have a mod trying to access one of those objects. It will crash the game. Remove the UDR and now it won't.
When you clean mods you will notice that TES5Edit will tell you there are x amount of deleted navmeshes that can't be undeleted. Those are left over by a mod author that doesn't know they are there or doesn't know how to resolve them. So if you see that, those mods will also cause a crash because any mod loading after them will crash as well for the same reason it does for deleted objects.
To inspect mods you don't even need to save it after running the cleaning procedure. Load one and run the cleaning process but uncheck the box at the end and don't save it. Then if you have UDRs those can be resolved automatically by xEdit. If you see deleted navmeshes you may want to consider a play through without those mods. A deleted navmesh can be dealt with but I don't recommend it for novice users. Undeleting one may create another. Sometimes I see a mod that looks really interesting and I try it out but I always look for deleted navmeshes. I have fixed mods for mod authors in the past and I might only find 2 deleted navmeshes to start with. Before I am done I may have had to fix multiple navmeshes and undelete any number of the vanilla navmeshes and resolve them.
UDRs and deleted navmeshes are almost guaranteed to be an issue. It should not occur at a certain level so I can't help you with that. Something to consider anyway. I guess the only other thing is don't forget about your memory block but I believe that's part of SKSE now. Also ENBoost can help with video ram as well. I use the ENBoost but don't have the ENB graphical portion active. I'm not sure which video about ENBoost is the newest. I use just the ENB binaries I didn't have to download anything from the nexus. Again those videos may be outdated.
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Hlp was mentioning to the team that the exception should be caught by xEdit's internal routines. Can you list how you reproduce the error? Can you list the exact plugins used, masters, and which FormID you are trying to copy so that Hlp can refine how xEdit handles that type of error?
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I didn't know why the error would occur either so I had to ask Zilav. He said, "If missing master file is referenced by a parent record (like you copy INFO but master is used in DIAL) then similar error will happen. Need to add all required masters first." Which makes sense because the error is saying that it can't map the FormID. Which to me means that the FormID being copied has other FormIDs contained in its subrecords. Since those subrecords reference a master not part of the plugin you are working on when you try to copy the record, it gives an error.
I get an simular error when I try to change a FormID from for example [05]0345F3 to [03]0345F3 in a mod. Say 00 is Skyrim, 03 is ModA.esp and 05 is TheModIAmWorkingOn.esp. I am trying to change a FormID to point to ModA.esp instead of the mod I am working on. When I do that I will get an error that xEdit can't reference that FormID because it's from a master that isn't part of TheModIAmWorkingOn.esp. It will even go as far as to tell me an error occurred and I should close xEdit. Well I know I don't have to do that because I know why the error happened.
What I do instead is I add the master, sort masters, and close xEdit. It is recommended to always save the plugin when you add a master because everything xEdit is doing is stored virtually. It's not saved as you go like a text document. Once you add the master the FormIDs native to the plugin will change. Meaning originally all FormIDs pointing to Skyrim.esm are always 00 and the FormIDs native to the plugin are always 01. Once you add a master now you have 00-Skyrim.esm, 01-TheAddedMaster, 02 all the FormIds native to the plugin. The FormIDs have to all be renumbered.
You want all the FormID prefixes (01, 02, 03,) to be managed properly while you are copying records. Which is why I recommend that the mod is immediately saved after any master is added. If you decide to add several masters save the plugin, load the plugin, sort masters, save the plugin, load the plugin and continue working on it.
This is all important because once the plugin is used in game 00 is constant because it's Skyrim.esm. However, 01-master, 02-master, and 03-Native Values are going to be changed to whatever they are in your load order. 01 could become 07, 02 could become 08 and 03 could become 4F. The numbers are always in Hex.
Many people don't want certain masters to be part of the mod. However, not copying the supporting records breaks things which is what causes unresolved references. So if you do have masters you don't want, use the script "List records referencing specific plugin.pas" to show you which records reference the master you don't want as part of your plugin. Once you resolve that by adding more records and renumbering them or whatever you decide to do, then you can use the Clean Masters routine to safely remove the unwanted master.
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I don't think I can really add much to what has already been said. I ported the text from the training manual to a Wiki page. I have never added all the screen shots from the training manual except for the section on conflicts and overrides. You mentioned you read the manual but you're still unsure about what critical really means but I don't see that in the manual. Red doesn't mean critical it means conflict looser. The training manual explains what the colors mean and section 4 explains Conflict Detection and Resolution. The only way to get the row to stop being red is to drag values to all the plugins altering the same record which isn't how you resolve anything.
When I apply a filter to find conflict loosers I may only load certain mods or I may load all the mods in my data folder. However, then I look at the records to see what they change. If I feel it's reasonable then I leave it alone. If not then I use copy as override into and make a manual patch. My patch might only contain a few changes because the majority of the time the winning mod has the value that should be there anyway.
So in the end the colors are important but they are explained. Other then that you need to decide whether or not the change provided by the author is what you feel comfortable with. If it is leave it, if not make a manual patch as discussed in section 4. I have never used Mator Smash but there is nothing wrong with trying it. The only thing is it's automatic. So again when it's done you need to see if you feel the change is what you want or not.
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What version of Fallout 4 do you have and what version of NMM are you using? Please post the actual version numbers for both.
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I actually recommend people search this forum or post here since when mods are installed correctly and if the user has logged into Bethesda.net or modified their INI files the mods will work fine. I think most people that read the Homemaker comments section are trying to report a potential issue not solve one. Nova, the author is not available anyway and there are countless posts in this forum with what needs to be done for the INI file and about logging into Bethesda.net.
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Fist loadorder.txt is for 3rd party utilities like NMM or TES5Edit. It's not used by LOOT (in Fallout 4 mode), FO4Edit, Fallout 4, or Wrye Flash (in Fallout 4 mode and not available yet). So no matter what you do to that file it won't matter in game.
Indecently when you load Fallout 4 and go to settings, look in the lower right corner. What version of Fallout 4 do you have, exactly?
I see someone recommended changing your INI that's one thing that has to be done but don't forget to log into your Bethesda.net account from the in game menu. I'd run the Fallout 4 launcher and click play just to make sure F4SE or other 3rd party programs don't interfere when you log in. If you don't have a Bethesda.net account be sure and make one since it's a required step to log into in game at least once. None of which will help you find your plugins.txt but the Fallout 4 launcher should make one since that's what the game uses to know which mods lo load.
For plugins.txt it's always going to be in your users folder unless you found some random document and changed something for Windows itself. There are ways to designate an alternate users folder. I wouldn't know how because I don't want to do that and create a situation like this for example. When it's in the correct location it's in C:\Users\{{Your user name}}\AppData\Local\Fallout4. All Bethesda games use the users folder I mentioned. If you looked there and didn't find it then you can type %localappdata% into the windows explorer. That takes you to the Local App Data folder your currently logged into and you should see a Fallout4 folder listed.
If it's still not there then bash your IT specialist over the head with a soft object like a pillow multiple times before you fire him for changing your windows config to cause this situation.
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What happens if you type %localappdata% into your Windows Explorer, then delete plugins.txt and loadorder.txt (if present), then run the Fallout 4 launcher once. After you run the launcher, open NMM and go to the plugins tab. Make sure all your mods are active or inactive the way you want it. Then get the latest loot 0.9.2. What happens?
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Actually I didn't think you were blaming mod authors either. I added that as an example.
What arthmoor is getting at is that there is no way to update the mod. He's saying any edit at all breaks things, period.
You aren't the only person with issues I'm sure. I hope he can communicate the issue and that Bethesda can fix it because eventually I'd like to make my own mods for personal use that alter cells. However, if it's going to cause a bug then that needs to be addressed.
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I see you say "yes i understand that" but what Arthmoor, since he knows more about it, is saying in that post is that Bethesda is changing the EXE and the way it works. He is saying that the Combined Objects introduced with Fallout 4 are creating issues. When I read your post you are saying once I do XYZ then it happens and it just started happening recently. That's Arthmoor's point. I see in your screen shot you have a mod that makes the settlement house look different. Is that Eli's mod? If so she didn't cause it, Bethesda's EXE and how they deal with altered cells is causing it. Arthmoor is saying that Bethesda is making changes that are causing issues and if they don't address it any change to the game's cells will cause an issue and kill mods that do so. I'd post in that thread and see if he can explain it better then I can but you are fighting with Bethesda not the mods and it's not mod authors causing the issues.
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Because you have something in the Data folder that I don't. Not being sarcastic, that's going to be the reason. You have different mods installed then I do. You might have a different version of Fallout 4 then I do also. I have 1.7.9 but I'm not using F4SE yet until it's hosted on silverlock.org. I can't suggest to do things like rename the Data folder and then run the Verify Integrity of Game Cache and run your game with just the DLC because if you do that NMM will be confused as to why none of your mods are installed. That would be a place to start but you couldn't run NMM or it will complain. I could also suggest not running the game with F4SE.
I can't really go through all your mods and your entire Data folder. All I can confirm is that adding the INI changes are required for mods with loose files and I use it myself with 80 plugins enabled that add items to the settlement menus and my game doesn't crash. Other mods, scripts from the mods, even current versions of F4SE and it's plugins are causing crashes it could be anything. You will have to figure out a starting point and go from there.
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My confusion is that when I go here there is no v0.2.1 for Fallout 4 1.7.9. Are you using an experimental alpha/beta build from somewhere else? If you are then just report it to the F4SE team. Since it's not a stable release then there isn't much I could suggest. I'm not even using any version of F4SE right now because I'm waiting for it to be hosted on silverlock.org.
even trying to just trying the fo4 launcher with pressing play loops it around to bring up the launcher again
That happens to me all the time. I just close the Steam icon in the Systemtray and start Steam again. That's the only way I know of to fix that. I have Fallout 4 working just fine without F4SE while I wait on the official release.
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F4SE will only work with Fallout 4 up to version 1.6.9. You have to load your game without F4SE and go to settings then look in the lower right hand corner. If you have any version of Fallout 4 higher then 1.6.9 then you will have to wait for an F4SE update.
Otherwise if you still have 1.6.9 or earlier, make sure you are using the correct version for your version of Fallout. Exit Steam by right clicking the icon in the Systemtray and start Steam again. After Steam starts up again, run the Fallout 4 launcher once without F4SE. Then you should be able to use F4SE to start Fallout 4 again.
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It's not so much that the image in the link is different then what you are experiencing. It's that when you use mods that alter cells or mods that ask you to disable Combined Objects that eventually things will go haywire. I know everyone wants to scrap everything out of the settlement and make it look nicer or scrap everything and still keep a more post apocalyptic theme but the way Bethesda set up Combined Objects that's not always easy or reliable. It's better to read Arthmoor's post (also linked in that thread) because it's explained a bit better then I can do.
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Your issue is related to the discussion in this topic. It's due to the game engine and nothing you nor mod authors can do anything about.
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Then you have install or configuration issues I won't be able to help with. I have tried all the suggestions I can think of.
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I'm still not available much because of some real life responsibilities right now, but I did notice one thing I overlooked when I first read your PM and directed you here. Thanks for understanding and posting your question in this forum.
One minor note, loadorder.txt is not used by any game. Not Skyrim or Fallout 4. Not by the Game's EXE itself because the game only cares about plugins.txt. It is a community based file to have a sorted list of mods in your data folder. It is used with Skyrim and 3rd party apps to determine which mods are inactive when compared to plugins.txt. Fallout 4 has both active and inactive plugins in plugins.txt so loadorder.txt isn't used by any 3rd party apps for Fallout 4. You can delete it. Make sure you have the latest version of NMM, MO2, LOOT, or FO4Edit so they aren't recreating loadorder.txt since it's unused.
Sorry that I overlooked your part about the OMOD records after seeing the CTD part. I don't know how well FO4Edit can handle OMOD even with updates because of it's structure and how Bethesda is doing something different with the ESM for FO4. They change the structures of records, or alter records, Form Lists or whatever they need to and release a new Fallout4.esm with complete disregard to how it might break existing mods. I don't know how Zilav feels about OMOD. You could post in the comments section but he may say it's fine just change it and report any issues you find along with the usual "use with caution" clause. OMOD may not be effected by Bethesda's record changes but at any time anything could change. As an example after the release of 1.6.3 Minuteman Overhaul would crash Fallout 4 until the author updated the plugin with a users suggestion as to the cause of the crash. It wasn't the author overlooking something, he used the CK, but Bethesda had made changes.I'm not sure how many (if any) authors have heeded any of my comments in the sticky post for FO4Edit. As I stated before the release of the CK, we copied the definitions from Skyrim because Bethesda uses the previous games' plugin format. Then we added as much new information even though we didn't have the CK yet. In that sticky post I had told people not to edit OMOD but they did it anyway because of how it effects things. Without the CK we couldn't really know the structure and one of the earlier versions added or removed a byte or two from that record. Once we were able to resolve that we released a new alpha. With the CK out since April of this year IIRC, there have been more updates to it. However, any author that has not gone into the CK and updated their mod as I suggested has left plugins that could have corrupt OMOD records.
When you intend to alter that record first you should go to the FO4Edit site and get the latest version of FO4Edit. As mentioned in the comments section we are not going to have incremental versions until xEdit is no longer an Alpha version. Because of that the latest EXE is in FO4Edit 3.1.3 - 7e81da1 which you will need if you want to have the latest record definitions available.Second because of how many people have disregarded my suggestion/warning you will need to load the plugin you wish to update in the CK first and save it. It will fix any anomalies left in the OMOD records (or any other records) by authors that have not used the CK to update their mods as suggested. I also suggest looking at each weapon's OMOD in the CK as much as possible and making any changes there that you can. Then if you want to tweak or fine tune them with FO4Edit you should be fine.
If it still crashes then as mentioned with Minuteman Overhaul, there could be changes to Fallout4.esm that are causing the crash and without remaking some of the Weapons and Object modifications from scratch you might not have an easy time fixing things. So it could be as easy as just saving the plugin with the CK or it could take more work. This really will just take trial and error pretty much.
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Nope I use that myself, not outdated and still required.
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Also you have to make INI file changes for loose files.
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Most texture mods don't have a plugin, they just have files. If you have any texture mods with a plugin it's probably an empty plugin and a BA2 file. BA2 files are supported however, if you have a really old mod that has an empty plugin and a BSA file then that's not supported. If someone made a plugin prior to the release of the CK and without using FO4Edit the game might not even recognize the plugin. Not recognizing BSA files and plugins with incorrect (Skyrim) version numbers could be intentional by design from Bethesda.
I'm sorry I won't be able to help you troubleshoot individual plugins, textures, meshes, and all that kind of stuff. You would need to look at the user comments or post a question for the author in their comments section if you are having an issue with specific mods.
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I understand you say you fixed it but did you chose the Steam location or where you want the game to be? I suspect it's where you want it and not where Steam wants it because you are saying some mods aren't showing up on the Plugins tab in NMM.Steam and NMM were using one each. I now fixed it and it works. Thanks a lot for your help!
Hmm... some mods are still not loading and not shown in "plugins" in NMM
C:\<<somelocation>>\Fallout 4\Data <<-- Steam's folder, must use this location
C:\<<somelocation>>\Fallout 4\Data <<-- Where you want it installed or the location NMM is configured to use<<-- Can't use this locationIn order to see where Steam installed Fallout 4 open Steam, go to Library, Games, right click "Fallout 4", choose properties, go to the local files tab, click the browse local files button. That is the location you need to assign to NMM. Then copy all your files there or reinstall the mods.
Now on the other hand lets say I'm wrong. Some mod authors don't always make a file that NMM can use. So there could be an issue with the archive. However, that's rare.
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INI Files: C:\Users\<<your user name>>\Documents\my games\Fallout4 <<-- can't change this
Load order files: C:\Users\<<your user name>>\AppData\Local\Fallout4 <<-- can't change this
Fallout 4: C:\<<whereever you installed it to>>\Fallout 4\Data <<- can configure for NMM but not the Fallout4.exe itself.
Well that's rather interesting then. You can tell NMM where your Fallout 4 install is but you can't tell Fallout 4 where to find the files. The Fallout 4 EXE will always look in the users folder for system files. As for the Data folder that's configured by Steam. Which you may know. If the Fallout 4 Launcher was pointing to the same folder as NMM then your DLCList.txt would have changed and it would have listed all the files in your Data folder. DLCList.txt is used by the launcher and not Fallout 4 itself and the list of plugins are never sorted and should be ignored for load order purposes in regards to LOOT or NMM.
So now we are back to some kind of windows setup issue or some kind of install issue. One thing to remember is that you can't manually relocate Fallout 4 it has to be installed with Steam to a Steam library folder. So if you wanted it in C:\My Games\Fallout 4 you can't move it from C:\Program Files (x86)\SteamApps\common\Fallout 4 manually. Also when you make a library folder in Steam it will append the rest of the path. So it might be C:\Games in Steam's preferences as shown in my screen shot but Steam will install it to C:\Games\SteamApps\common\Fallout 4.
That's been the case for Skyrim as well so I don't know why it would have worked previously. However, to a degree it doesn't matter if it might have worked previously it's not working now. I normally do not suggest users uninstall and reinstall Fallout 4 since that's very tiresome and in most cases may not resolve the issue. It might for you so I'd consider it.
If you chose to reinstall then configure the folder you want in Steam like I show in my screen shot. Otherwise if you have any more information about your install share it but I can't promise an easy or simple answer. Steam and Fallout 4 are simply looking in a different location then NMM.
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Okay, run your Fallout 4 Launcher one more time and then look at your DLCList.txt in your C:\Users\<<your user name>>\AppData\Local\Fallout4 folder. If it doesn't change and only contains advsettleturretset.esp let me know.
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Okay that's great, thanks for posting what you found in DLCList.txt. What results did you get when you went to the plugins tab in NMM and clicked the export icon and exported your load order the the clipboard. I believe it's the icon under the green check mark. Can you paste that also?
Plugins.txt missing/gone
in Discussion
Posted · Edited by Sharlikran
>> I read that a previous update caused loadorder.txt issues, but I didn't have it at the time of that update.
Well just remember the game, Fallout 4 itself, doesn't read or care or know of or what loadorder.txt is. It is a community generated file and should be deleted because it is not used with any Fallout 4 utilities. It's superfluous now since Bethesda changed the format of plugins.txt. The latest version of NMM modifies plugins.txt correctly where it didn't earlier this year back in April or earlier.
>> it should be the most recent, but I haven't double checked yet since I read this post
Okay, check it to be sure it's up to date. If you are using an older version for any reason, depending on the version, it may have the old plugins.txt format and will confuse NMM.