Gothpunk4Christ

Do have CH, RDO, and BV installed. Had been considering removing BV to help test simply because I never get to the point of becoming one anymore with my constant new game tests. Now that I'm not running warzones I can probably more easily be done with CH for a quick test run because I won't have to stop and loot the extra bodies every short while. Also thanks to those who confirmed they have the issue with OBIS loot, which means it may not be this specific mod, but expedited by this type of mod (and I could still be grasping at air). I have yet to do my daily testing (work is being retarded today) but I have a couple quick ideas to test. I can NOT go back to LE anymore, SE just runs and looks so much better. I'm down to literally just a small handful of mods I'm waiting on, and they aren't that important.

I want to say I tried this and still encountered the issue. It may be more dependent on each person's individual mod setup though. If we can at least figure out a theme, it would be a lot easier. So far, it seems like "too many mods" but you technically have a higher plugin count than I do right now. I removed warzones, a mod I imagine is one of my largest scripted mods (next to forgotten dungeons) and have still encountered the issue. I'll try removing OBIS loot, keep playing and report back. *edit* In my VERY short testing run at level 3 I had been able to force the bug by running through my crafting menus with OBIS loot installed, I removed OBIS loot and the hotfix patch and so far, in my also very short test, have not been able to duplicate the bug. BUT if ONE person here can confirm they DO get the bug without OBIS loot, then it may pave the argument towards "too many things at once," considering it added NOTHING to my crafting list yet. If I am unable to continue to get the bug without OBIS loot, I will reinstall my TERA armor and weapon mods (those DO add items to the crafting menu) and if I still am unable to get the bug, it may come down to that individual file. Will test more tomorrow when I'm not actively trying to avoid passing out at my keyboard.

Oh, and probably because it's Bethesda. We're used to bad engines. :P But more on the lines of (like my previous posts suggested) that WE are the ones overloading it with so many mods.

1) Yeah, I agree, however I had this issue without SkyUI (tested most of today actually) and several other users had referred to having this before/without using SkyUI. QD Inventory is more akin to the stock version of the UI but with slightly different font, and relatively same amount of screen space (that I can tell). The problem is, there's a lot more in depth below just the interface section, because the interface section (from what I can understand anyways) basically interacts with every other aspect of the game and/or engine. Other than running a completely fresh install with 100 or so random mods and no interface mods, getting this bug would only confirm that this bug happens with this particular mod setup. From there, it can start to be whittled away to try and determine the root cause, but as of now, it seems the best we have is "it could be literally just about anything." The only way we can figure out is to test our ideas, as silly as they seem. Someone may just accidentally stumble across something that sparks the grand resolution of what this actually is. 2) This is entirely legitimate, but still partially tying in with my first rambling point above, I actually initially started playing with no UI improvements. That actually drove me back to LE, but once I got tired of all the CTDs, general instability, and lack of better graphical effects, I started the more permanent switch to SE. It's really hard to go back, for any reason now. I actually usually play with subtitles because I have background music going, or I have my volume low as to not disturb anyone, so I may not be the best candidate to test this particular function. What disabling subtitles for me will do is help lead to my testing of whether the bug actually happens on death or not, because I won't hear the frost trolls sneaking up behind me. Otherwise, see if we can figure out some way to test the other aspects, as far as localization. I don't speak any other languages, and we have no clue if the japanese or french are also having this issue. I'm not so sure if this is directly interface related though, because just because we do have to look at the interface to encounter the bug (HUD, fonts, inventory screens etc) doesn't mean that's exactly where the issue lies. I wish we could get a solid way to test it though, and unless someone's willing to play with "tm" enabled on the console (I doubt that would even work like we want, lol) I'm not even sure it's something we could even rely on. Anyone have ideas on this, or am I just rambling again? 3) This is also very legitimate and potentially the source of our problems. I've tried to shave down my regular mods (ESP only, textures I don't think counts) but I was entirely unable to get this bug to appear on a completely blank slate, trying to push all the buttons and everything I would normally do in order to get this to appear. I was entirely UNABLE to reproduce this without mods installed. I tested several different theories and wasn't able to make any headway. In the following scenarios, I was unable to reproduce the bug. Only running mods that add enemies. (Warzones/OBIS, More Bandit Camps)Only running crafting mods that did NOT inject leveled lists. (Ars Metallica, TERA armor/weapons without the LL additions, etc)Stock, un-modded install. I raised my crafting all the way to 100, smelted, ran to the major cities and bought and sold the ENTIRE INVENTORY to several of the merchants, and ended up with over 160K encumbrance. Massive lag at times when opening and viewing inventory, but no corruption bug. Also got a gold bug, but that seemed to eventually clear up.Crafting mods that did inject leveled lists, with a wrye bashed patch. Lots of crafting/smelting/buying/selling like previous and also upgrading each weapon/armor piece, and a hefty bought of carpel tunnel.Several of these tests I DID end up having UI mods. The more I think about these scenarios, the more I think that it could actually indeed be tied to an ESP count because individually, I have yet to be able to force the bug unless multiple conditions were met. And that is what makes it so hard to pinpoint specifically. I've tested all the theories I proposed as best I could, but I'm really getting burned out trying force it. Maybe I missed something though. If we could coordinate a plan of attack, we may be able to brute force a test with multiple people with multiple scenarios and see who of the group managed to cause issues, if any. But I also thing we need some genius to write up a program that would monitor what's going on with the engine in each scenario, and give us a factual data representation of what's actually going on. There's a lot of stuff in the background that we can't see going on, and it's frustrating as crap. I feel like I'm just stabbing blindly in the dark with a toothpick, trying to hit a dime sized object that MIGHT be within 50 foot of me, in any direction. I lean towards inventory system in some way because I can faithfully reproduce the issue when crafting large amounts of items, something I can NOT reproduce with an un-modded game. I'm going to stop talking now because I think I'm just rambling, trying to throw ideas even if they're bad ones and hope someone somewhere can make sense of it.

Yeah, but I generally don't ever get to that point. If I've played for a while and go to save, I'll start checking if my loads are showing the image corrupt. If they do, I ~qqq and reload, after saving, of course. And I've just ran a good chunk of today with QD inventory, AFT instead of EFF, and a few other tweaks, and the issue actually seems to happen a bit faster. So, back to my preferred loadout. Also, I just noticed, OBIS/OBIS Loot has had a pretty large update and all, so I caught those, uninstalled warzones, and got rid of Skyrim Flora Overhaul. Had some issue with very large low poly grass recently, realized NMM wasn't completely removing all of the actual assets of the file when moved around or overwritten, and had caused some major headaches and very large amounts of time spent trying to fix it. That said, MO2 is still in garbage phase and there's this little nagging thought in the back of my mind that NM may actually be screwing stuff up and causing this. Doubtful, but we may see when Vortex comes out.

One thing that's very frustrating is that I am VERY adept at causing this bug to happen, but not figure out what's actually causing it.

I have to agree that you may be correct. after playing with the bug for 35 hours i have noted that it tends to appear the fastest while crafting and trading with merchants. however accessing my invintory to equip items or transfer them to my companions invintorys seems not to cause the bug to appear. I thought I edited that particular post, or maybe posted after, but it had absolutely no effect. I was still able to duplicate the bug very quickly. Then I removed most every leveled list injection of armor and weapons, and I think just a couple slipped in, but was always able to duplicate by navigating through my crafting menus. Which, the base test was corrupted anyways because it wasn't completely clean leveled lists. I may need to see about going back through this and testing a little better this next time. It's when I get the issue after every single crafting session that it really gets annoying. I may figure something out. I may not.

I'm pretty much almost at the same point. I'm trying to figure out to see if there may be something we can lead to, but without a programmers input, most of us "average joe" type people won't be able to lead to a resolution anyways. I'll try and offer inputs as I can figure out, but most of my methods of attempting a fix are going to be: "propose an idea I think may work, then test it, get angry that it wasn't it, contemplate going back to fallout 4 for a while, ignore that cause I want to play Skyrim, play Skyrim, get annoyed at the bug, think of another idea, and repeat." Other than my latest idea to see if EFF/follower mod may be causing issues, I'm a bit out of ideas, unless it's directly related with papyrus and scripting, and a lot of the more script intensive mods may be just throwing a wrench into everything. I'm not sure though, because most of the script heavy stuff I run, I really don't want to give up. I can probably do without warzones (it just leads to a lot more standing around looting stuff and overencumbered trips back to a smelter because none of the other merchants have enough gold yet and I really don't want to leave the stuff lying around, but at the same time I'm earning gold way too quickly and it's not really fun anymore) but I'm not giving up OBIS. I did run without OBIS and WZ and was never able to duplicate the issue, but at that stage I was also running without all of my extra armor/weapon mods. I can understand why it'd be so danged hard to pinpoint a very direct specific cause if it weren't any one thing specifically but the system as a whole just slowly overwhelming the game engine itself, and in which case, I'll just mod how I want, and unless I'm having very serious, major, frequent issues, I'll just deal with it. I'll keep yelling giddy-up at the dead horse (it might just be unconscious for now) and see if I can get it to move at least. And that also reminds me, I need to get that giddy-up buttercup mod for FO4.

I'm not sure if SkyUI uses that much scripting really...officially it didn't really REQUIRE skse, but it did make use of a couple of the functions I think. But I know there are other options like QD Inv so I'd be willing to try this again without SkyUI to see if there might be an improvement at least, though the issue has persisted, for me, at least, before SkyUI. (woke up way early today on little sleep, may not be coherent at this point)

I am running skyui and sse fixes v2, on a fresh install (very recent, uninstalling the CK actually caused steam to completely wipe my install folder) but I do run with subtitles and no way I'm probably going to stay consistently under 200 esps. lol. *edit* and actually with SSE fixes my game is rock solid. I had one issue earlier today with a lockup on the game when I tried to auto loot something while on my horse while trying to sheathe my weapon, and that combination of everything in the middle of a warzone fight ended up not working well. But generally, unless I'm doing very heavy modifications in game with sudden plugin changes, and actually trying to get the thing to mess up I have no CTDs or lockups. 1 hickup here and there, but for the most part, I've had that with very little modifications.

The only ones we have in common are dyndolod and convenient horses. And honestly, I don't even have the esp enabled for the dyndolod, I just ran the tes5lodgen I think it was, not quite the same but same basic principle. I did run through with convenient horses without the initial quest activated so that should NOT have had an impact. But I don't know. Do you do a lot of crafting or no? I also ran through and disabled most all of my armor/weapons additions and that has yet to really make a difference, but I will need to go through and completely remove the rest to test.

Which new mods did you add?

aleksi, I was having the issue prior to installing campfires, so I doubt that it by itself would cause the issue. Also, if you're pushing 44K strings and can play for over an hour without issue, that sorta confirms my theory it may not be entirely string related, as others can run a couple thousand more than I am and not experience the issue, while I do. There's something wonky with the crafting/looting system. I'm going to test a bit more today, I got fed up with everything last night and started looking at Fo4 mods again, got a little more chocolate in my system and am in a much better mood today. Going to play around a little more with some different scenarios and see. Maybe I'm just adding too many extra crafting mods, we'll see.

It's been roughly *edit* 4 months, would love to hear if there's a new potential timeline for this. MO was fine for Skyrim, never had too much trouble with NMM except for randomly crashing and not actually removing things like I told it, but for SE MO2 isn't working well and NMM isn't seeming to be much better.

Alright so here's a list of currently loaded leveled list injectors (NPC and loot) and I HAVE been able to duplicate the issue at level 3. Unique LootSummermystDiverse Dragons Collection (no dragons encountered, not even into that part of the story yet)Better Creature LootOBIS lootImmersive Wenches (would remove if deadly wenches didn't need it)Deadly WenchesArs MetallicaLegendary Deserter X collection (I noticed a gwelda dawguard chestpiece giving off a weird black line towards my character previous to the corruption, BUT the corruption happened quite some time after, consistent with extensive menu navigation.)Werewolves and wearbears distributedDynamic Dungeon LootSimple PaladinOMEGA Light SpellsBarbarian Steel armor I'm still running the TERA weapons/Armors but not in the leveled list injectors. I really need other people to help test these ideas, I'm about to the point of giving up and dealing with it as I had been for so long. *edit* removed the wenches mods, barbarian steel armor, Legendary Deserter X collection, and better creature loot to slim things down. *edit 2* Initial batch of small removals didn't help, now removing DDL, WW/WB Dist, OBIS Loot. The ONLY lists showing in Wrye bash are: USSEP, summermyst,Diverse Dragons, OBIS (actor only, no loot) Morrowloot and the MLU-Summermyst patch. *edit 3* above changes made no difference. Disabling my TERA weapon and armor packs to see if that may make a difference. I also did a fresh run without starting convenient horse quest (though it was still installed) to see if it would make a difference. It did not seem that it did.

So far, it would appear that my idea about leveled list injection may be the best lead so far if that can just be tested. I'm removing book of uunp, immersive armors, and my tera gear leveled lists and going to play with that idea some.

I'm only a step below you, 6700K (no OC though, not yet), 32GB 2.4GHz (IIRC) RAM, GTX 1070FTW and dual Samsung 850 EVO's in a RAID 0. SATA 3 I think. Been a while since I refreshed on the exact specs. I'm onl running 1080p though, highest my monitors will go. And honestly, even though I do run a LOT of mods, my string count is relatively low most of the time, and if I were to uninstall just 1-2 mods I'd be well below 33K strings. The biggest time I ever notice script lag though is when I'm trying to loot bodies from my horse (convenient horses) and there's a few NPCs around to interact. It will take a moment for the options to come up, but a little later on, even if there's just one option, the dialogue may not even come up at all. I doubt that's directly related to CH though. I plan to add in a few crafting mods to my "unmodded" game and see if I can narrow down what the issue might be. If I remember right, my last save was at 169K encumbrance and I had just bought out several vendors (trying to troubleshoot maybe the link between inventory and crafting). I have a feeling though, that what may be happening, is that all these different leveled list injectors and stuff (Book of UUNP, Immersive Armors) are overloading the engines capability to handle everything (Beth may have coded it JUST to handle what was in game, let's say running at 85% capacity, and when ONE mod comes along and adds 50 new records, that pushes it to 99% capacity, then add another 1-2 armor mods that adds a single set of stuff, and there's 102%, and only when records are accessed (looting a body, crafting a new piece) the assets are loaded into the engine, and gets to the point where the engine can't handle it, and "corrupts" the data because it ran out of allocation. And reloading the game refreshes the allocation and resets the (insert correct technical term here) and everything's good, until you load another game, run around and craft and browse your inventory (already having access to those things in your inventory) it happens again a little faster. Just a theory at the time, but it suits my play style. *edit* OK, so I installed Ars Metallica, a bunch of armor stuff that ONLY affects crafting, no leveled lists or anything, and so far going through all of my inventory twice, smelting at least one of every item I had and browsing through the crafting menus a few times has yet to reproduce corruption. *edit 2* I've run through and smelted, crafted, viewed menus, and everything, and each save I make, I'm loading up into resaver. My save files are consistently around 2.6-2.74MB. I notice that a lot of my older save files were reaching easily double this amount. BUT I can also say this is a relatively fresh game, and I've traveled to a few major cities, bought out merchant inventories, and NOT done any significant questing. That could be part of it. Is anyone here running a dead body cleanup mod AND have gotten the corrupt save? I know Tony hasn't, but it'll help me nail down a few other theories to test. Next I'm going to load up a bunch of NPC adding mods and run around everywhere to see if that causes it, and if so, run with a body cleanup mod after to see if there's a change. (I've thought about this some, and the only issues are that Warzones and OBIS both have integrated body cleanup. These 2 shouldn't affect that, and these are pretty much the only NPC adders that I use that would probably affect it. I'll still try it though.) *edit 3* Just spent a good hour spawning creatures, killing them, and repeating (not a fan of fire/lightning storm and overall have spawned about 500 mudcrabs, and a few hundred stormcloak soldiers, and various bandits. moved areas and repeated. Corpses everywhere, and still no corruption. Haven't looted anything, but save file is now about 5.35MB. *edit 4* installed warzones, obis, made a bat file that spawns 20 NPCs next to me, and installed an auto looter. Sequence is to charge blizzard, release, at the time of release, run bat file that spawns characters, they all die, auto loot loots all corpses and I run about 20 yards and repeat. I've covered most of whiterun plains this way, still no corruption. Save file size 5.13MB strings 30.1K.

I actually peg 60FPS near the entire time. Only time I dip is when I'm in dense fog or something, and that's even hard to recreate. I've never seen 40's or lower. *edit* To further clarify, when I'm in combat surrounded by stormcloaks and imperials due to the warzones mod, I might hit 58fps. The overlay tends to read 60 consistently, with a couple times it might hit 58 or 59, sometimes 61. I've monitored my hardware while troubleshooting other issues, and my processor never goes over 50% utilization and my GPU MIGHT hit 99% occasionally. Usual range for GPU is 50-75%.

When you get a chance, to help us test this... could you run through, do a bunch of crafting, navigate through all of your smelting/crafting menus and check and see if you get this issue? Just go through, scroll to every item, exit the menu check and see if loads corrupt, if not, do it a couple more times just scrolling through your list. If you do (not) get the issue without a bunch of extra crafting stuff, then that would REALLY help. If you do, that would seem to indicate that it may not be as mod related as we think. *edit* Level 8, just finished crafting a few elven pieces, load corrupt, saved and strings at 34,850. Really starting to think that yes, while strings may have a little impact, there's a type of memory leak or something that gets expedited by crafting. *edit 2* Created a stock, no mods, install of SE on my laptop, and have spent right about the last hour crafting, smelting, digging through my crafting options, got smithing to 100, bought and sold from numerous vendors and sitting at 56,967 total encumbrance.... and no save corruption. Actually got a glitch around 30K gold for a vendor where gold transactions stopped registering altogether.... but no corrupt saves. Animations are still smooth, game is running just fine (for being turned down on a not so solid machine) and only split moment lag when something goes into my inventory now... *edit 3* leveled a helf to level 17 on crafting alone... 27.4K strings, sav file size is a whopping 2.65mb... still no corruption... major case of carpul tunnel here. Crafted 5-15 of every item, leveled it with grindstones/workbench....

I'm running a TOTAL of 525 mods, but most are meshes and textures alone, so no record changes or anything. I only have a total of 255 active plugins (no merges currently), and some of them still come with dummy ESPs to point to specific textures and stuff. But my strings are currently at 34.7k, at previous times of corruption I've had them at 33.1k. Though a body cleaning mod may be beneficial too. Tony, are you running any armor/weapon leveled list additions? Or anything that adds a bunch of stuff to crafting?

Woop, going to go get the SE versions of those now lol. At the time I installed them, I think only the non-SE version was available. Or they're just showing up in my Unassigned tab for some reason. It's possible the one weapons mod I'm running could be worsening the issue to a degree, it does adjust leveled lists, and of course my bashed patch. I did have the issue on a fresh, brand new save before level 5. I did previously smelt a bunch of stuff, and I was active in game for a few hours. As long as I'm not dying frequently, it's not much of an issue except when trying to read books and stuf added by other mods, or trying to interact with merchants. But by that point, it appears that I'm having really bad script lag anyways, so I tend to just exit and reload.

The ONLY Oldrim mods I am running, are Tiwa44's spice gear and minidress collection (super cute and not too slooty) that I converted over myself, he actually gave me permission to upload the spice gear, not sure why I haven't yet. NobleSkyrim (only some assets) Nordic Snow, a weapons mod, treesHD, amidianborn whiterun (not using all assets) embers hd, ultimate fire effects hd (forgot this one originally) ethereal elven overhal (and a patch that makes it compatible with SE) and a follower I converted. A good chunk of the stuff I run is meshes/textures with no ESP.

Turns out I accidentally borked my sandbox area to a reference instead of self for all of my followers, so while they'd spawn at the right spot, they'd immediately start traveling. As far as the corpse walkers, still trying to figure that one out lol. That, and I also deleted all previous saves beforehand, so it's possible that something ghost loaded in the background some, but that would have been the first time in thousands of loads.

Ok, so my testing is at a standstill for the time being. I started a new game since my last one flat out refused to even load, and I was tweaking my follower pack I'm working on, so I loaded up and went around my usual route to gather everyone to test... and nobody's there. Ok, the ESP is checked and all, so I guess the games just messing up... so I went to Falkreath, no followers present, same with Morthal... Should have at least 2 there... decided to stop by Riverwood, and there were flaming corpse walkers everywhere.... I'm guessing something with Mihail's Corpsatarium freaked out... so in the midst of this flaming rock concert were all of my followers... in Riverwood... my spell sword manages to keep her flame cloak up long enough to ignite everything and after about 15 minutes they all manage to kill off everything, but half of the townspeople are dead and this is a brand new save... So I verified game cache and I'm just going to start over again. I bloody love this game lol.

I'm not expecting you to read a whole 72+ pages for every detail, but we're all in the same boat.