Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[LordArturo]

In response to post #24733199. #24733474, #24733594, #24733919, #24733969, #24734114, #24734584, #24734984, #24735109, #24735199, #24735449, #24735464, #24735474, #24735764, #24735829, #24736169, #24736484, #24736504, #24736694, #24736739, #24737289, #24737659, #24738119, #24738269 are all replies on the same post.

Elta1 wrote:

sa547 wrote: All the damage could've been averted if the powers-that-be asked for a public consultation in the first place.

Saije wrote: Stop trying to ride the white horse here.

Modders turncoated on the community with hilarious haste.

Users responded in the way that an individual betrayed will always respond.

And now that the dust is settled and the greedy have shown their true colors.

(The fact that they don't give flying f*#@ about the community, just money.)

Now that the paid modding has been vanquished and said greedy individuals have no

recourse except to accept that they were completely happy in their betrayel.

You try to paste the blame on the ones betrayed rather then the ones betraying...

Ridiculous.


I hope if one lesson has been learned from all this it is this...

People will betray each other in a heartbeat when money is involved.


The only modders who deserve any sympathy are the ones that were attacked by the

greedy capitalist pushing pissants for not standing at the side of their fellow turncoats.

Sorry if I get banned for this comment... But it needed to be said.

focusv5 wrote: In a world where everyone has a voice (the internet), you're going to get all kinds of extremes in terms of opinions, and it clearly showed over the past few days. The blame cannot be placed solely on the users as if they were all issuing death threats and spewing absolute hatred. There were of course many users that were constructive and not issuing death threats by explaining that this system could have worked if it was implemented better. Don't let the sour few spoil your opinion of the masses. I wouldn't hop on the 'pity bethesda/valve' train as a result of hearing death threats as these sorts of statements are not uncommon in nearly all avenues of life. You make absolute statements like 'the users' as if they represented everyone, there were many who were calmly involved in the discussion as well.

JCDNWarrior wrote: Change is not neccesarily good. We're talking about a hobby that many of us have put thousands of hours into. I don't think the modding community should be seen as villains in this. Especially if people wish to ascribe good intentions to Valve and Bethesda (Two companies that would probably not even exist anymore or be very small without their modding communities).

AAA gaming has been going downwards for years and modding is what keeps the spirit of gaming alive for millions of people. Messing with that by introducing money and consequentially greed, on top of a very easily abused system of Steam Workshop and more and more information uncovered about how this was planned long in advance, and there's no way that the modding and gaming communities wouldn't raise absolute hell over this.

I just truly hope that all parties learn from this. However, with monetary interests involved, I think everyone should be vigiliant that this could happen all over again, just better repacked in PR-speak than Gabe Newell's meltdown AMA.

daedriccat wrote: Lets stop calling those who wanted to keep to the TES tradition of sharing free mods as being afraid of change. That is short sighted and ignorant and the typical cry of those who wanted to profit from modding.

SirTopas wrote: Oh, horsecrap, Saije. If modding does come to an end, it will be folks like you with your pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers who end it with your demands for "ideological purity". You and your ilk have already driven Chesko, the author of Frostfall and other outstanding mods, out of the community completely. On the other hand, you, I note, have never published a mod. Again I ask, who is more greedy? The modders who have put thousands of hours and real money into modding or people like you who demand that the results of that work be provided to you for free?

Hamthaak wrote: SirTopas: You just received a kudo for this.
Saije: no offense, mate. but this kind of attitude is just what i got tired of in the last days. Who betrayed you? Who owes you (and me, and anyone else here) anything? We should be thankfull to anyone who creates mods we can use for free. THEY are the basis of this "community".

TehKaoZ wrote: ^This

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that.

SirTopas wrote: phantompally76, not having produced a mod absolutely does have a bearing when people are making demands about what modders may or may not do with the product of their own work.

Aavok wrote: I get what you're saying but...
A bit over-dramatic don't you think?

Azulyn wrote: Pretty sure the death threats thing is being blown out of proportion by all the white knights and butthurt. I mean, c'mon folks. You are on the internet. I'm sure you've all visited the cesspool that is 4chan. I'm sure most of the turds issuing death threats were just trolls anyway.

MysticalFlare wrote: @phantom, you don't need mod users to be a mod author. More often than not, I make mods exclusively for myself. I don't know where you got the idea that you have any authority over the author, but that sense of entitlement is pretty ridiculous.

bjornvaldr wrote: Not sure I agree with you and not sure you got the point of it all. The only people who should be demonized here are the ones who went around spamming middle finger ASCII art or harassing mod authors. Reactions such as protest banners and hiding mods were justified. Since when is protesting against something you feel is wrong childish? Don't lump everyone into the same category just because people share the same distaste for paid modding. The Workshop has been known - and is still known - for people stealing mods. People who hid or pulled their mods, while their reactions may have been a little early to do so, were justified. They didn't want people stealing their hard work and selling it. The people who pulled their mods with the idea of exclusively selling them, however, that's a different story. I won't get into that one though. You can't blame people for feeling betrayed. Sure, some people went about expressing this in stupid ways, but not everyone went around spamming and harassing. And no. No one banished anyone. The only mod authors who left were ones who didn't have the foresight to see what they were doing was going to cause a backlash. I hope they come back, but if they don't, I'm not going to beg them to do so. Yeah, it sucks they got harassed, but that happens on the Internet. I wish it didn't, but people need to thicken their skin.

asanesslights wrote: Now you're trying avert towards the users, which in fact only expressed their feelings because of sudden change. Now the gamergate journalists will make an article off this one.

LeianneG wrote: @phantompally76

"SirTopas, what about the thousands of hours mod USERS have logged playtesting mods, providing quality control, reporting bugs and glitches, providing feedback and suggestions to mod authors? Hmmm????

Not having ever created a mod does not invalidate one's opinion or stance on the matter. Without mod users, there would be no mod authors. Don't you ever forget that. "

********************** ADDRESSING THE ABOVE STATEMENT ******************

USERS who have donated their time, work and talents improving a mod -
are no longer JUST USERS ... they are ALSO contributing Mod Authors!

Sorry, but I would still be a mod author WITHOUT mod users .. as I make my mods FOR ME FIRST - and then, if I feel you or someone else might enjoy it - I choose to SHARE.

Tar wrote: Remember that this is what normally happen when change and new rules get pulled down on peoples head without any warning. This was neither the mod makers fault or the users fault, they felt they was cheated, this was all done by Valve and Bethesda for not doing what should have been done when change is on the agenda.

Anyway, some users overstepped and their actions should not be tolerated. But lets look forward and try an unite the community again, lets get this farce created by valve and Bethesda out of our system.

jfisha wrote: I understand exactly what you're talking about, Leianne, but my response would be the same to you as it was when I read a contributor to SkyUI say he didn't feel there was a community on Nexus....

"The almost 300 thousand people who endorsed your mod would disagree."

sunshinenbrick wrote: Communities should always contain a wide variety of people. I have come to realise just how varied opinions are on in this community and the number of times I have thought "s#*! that's a insanely good point".

I think it is the sense of community that was what caused such a strong reaction from everyone here. I think what Bethesda (perhaps Valve) and everyone here found out through this is how intricate and precious this wide variety of people and how they interact is.

You cannot package it in a box and sell it for the lowest price. We should be proud of that and I hope Bethesda and everyone here appreciates the value of it.

phantompally76 wrote: @LeianneG, I strongly and emphatically disagree.

Without anyone to play your mods, you're just editing files for your own personal use.

Of course I definitely understand it's a two-way relationship. All I'm saying is don't try to guilt users (and several other mod authors) for expressing displeasure with mod authors who rallied behind this scam, and don't expect us to just forgive and forget. I don't hate these people. I respect their talents and their creativity, and yes, I respect their time. But I'm not obligated to pay for it. And they're not obligated to create it.

Things were working just fine before this scam. Except for the mod authors who got greedy and spent more time playing with the Creation Kit than with providing for their families, we had a symbiotic relationship. That relationship has been strained. Things won't ever be the same.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think it has been an awakening of a relationship that had perhaps become a little taken for granted. And I think that is true for the entire community, including the developers and publishers. This is the internet guys, this has been looked at the world over.

protttt wrote: It's ok if you modders and Beth and Vavle want profit from what you created. It's rightfully right.
And it's ok too if you don't want to share to those who don't pay.
It's still ok if you then create a mod community which charges money for those who want to join.
It's right for you to elevate the modders over us users, like positions/ranks in society/army.
However also notice that the users can choose to pay or not. Yes you are right all the way but there won't be as many as we are in the community, so go and share mods among you noble people!
Then....
Some day you will notice that you are in a community where you charge money over each others, get angry for well-paid but broken mods, and feel how lonely you are when there are just 100 or 101 people who view your mod, 20 of them paid (and endorsed), 20 of them ask stupid questions without a single advice, 20 of them remain silent, 20 of them complain.
And that number 100 will soon go down to 1, then 0. Bum, there are no mods anymore.
And we who will have left long ago, don't give a damn. Mods are not everything.

Saije wrote: Say what you want... People like ME and the other Pitchforkers you demean.

We're the primary reason that modding is back to being free and will probably remain so for the time being.

Your welcome... By the way.

Sorry, but the "thousands of hours of work that costed me blood, sweat and tears" argument, used to ask for any compensation, specially monetary, is totally invalid. Modders are voluntaries, nobody puts Modders a gun in their heads to force them to continue, they chose to spend 1000+ hours beause supposedly, Modding is their passion and love.

Whenever a Modder uses the aforementioned argument, he/she is clearly saying "I make Mods for retribution, hopefully material and valuable", and he/she also means with this argument that he/she doesn't care or stopped caring about the Mod Users.

Before you ask "who the f*** are you?", let me tell you that I'm a Modder too. I spent 5+ years (3 of them in private) in the modding scene, but despite the long days and nights I sometimes face, or the bad moments in which I have tried to look for a hard-to-find solution to a bug in one of my projects, I never had nor I don't have the need to use the argument.

As a Modder, I love what I do, man, in the very small website I come from, there is no payment involved, let alone donations, me and my fellow Modders make our mods to make happy ourselves and our Mod Users too (Perhaps you'll find 1 or 2 that want fame, but that's the minority and it's not a big deal actually, since they care about the community too).

And if you have doubts yet, check the website, GTRCars, be warned though, the site is not politically correct:
http://www.gtrcars.net/forum/portal.php

The website is like a haven for racing games Modders that you won't find anywhere else.

Despite money is required to buy the much-needed software, charging people for Mods is a no-go for me, and precisely because of that, I prefer to support donations, although, I'm too "economically constrained" to give a single penny. Personally, I think if donations via smartphones (Similar as obtaining SpeedBoost for NFS World) were possible, more people would be willing to donate since it would be much easier.

Back to my no-money-charging stance, most people that use Mods aren't precisely rich people, instead, they also have bills to pay, a career to pay and a family to help to. Mods provide free fun that's really helpful in moments when you're utterly broke. Modding is practically an act of love, you never know who is being happy with your Mods, but there's always a person, trust me.

Modding for me (And happily for most Modders here as well) is a Hobby, and as love, it's free, and it should stay that way. Edited April 28, 2015 by ArturoPlayerOne

[THEnuman421]

This is glorious.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24738304.

foster xbl wrote:

It will cull the greedy from the passionate, and you know what? That's just fine with me.

[Vesuvius1745]

In response to post #24738304. #24738404 is also a reply to the same post.

foster xbl wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: It will cull the greedy from the passionate, and you know what? That's just fine with me.

Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage. If a modder is really skilled, and wants to get paid for his or her work, then they should get a job at a game company.

[Korodic]

In response to post #24738304. #24738404, #24738464 are all replies on the same post.

foster xbl wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: It will cull the greedy from the passionate, and you know what? That's just fine with me.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage. If a modder is really skilled, and wants to get paid for his or her work, then they should get a job at a game company.

You can be passionate & compensated... why can't it be both?

Maybe I don't want a job at a game company. Maybe I'm content doing what I like... modding. Edited April 28, 2015 by Korodic

[WightMage]

In response to post #24737409.

Zaflart wrote:

Here here!

[anykiller83]

In response to post #24738079.

valtharion wrote:

Agree. I was a bit disappointed with paid mods, but I understand that some people want to see their efforts rewarded. I haven't criticized the authors for that.

The aggressiveness from some people of the community has been excessive, IMHO, and I saw many disrespect and rage on both sides, pro-free mods and pro-paid mods. Yes, on both sides, no one can deny that.

This whole thing has been pretty ugly, with a total lack of tolerance and respect :/

I hope that the atmosphere starts to calm down and return peace to the community because this controversy doesn't help anyone.

PD: Sorry for my english, I tried to correct google translator (don't make me to talk about that, please) xDDDDD Edited April 28, 2015 by anykiller83

[lFostelR]

In response to post #24738304. #24738404, #24738464, #24738479 are all replies on the same post.

foster xbl wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: It will cull the greedy from the passionate, and you know what? That's just fine with me.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage. If a modder is really skilled, and wants to get paid for his or her work, then they should get a job at a game company.

Korodic wrote: You can be passionate & compensated... why can't it be both?

Maybe I don't want a job at a game company. Maybe I'm content doing what I like... modding.

because...... I guess

[OiramX5]

In response to post #24738304. #24738404, #24738464, #24738479, #24738524 are all replies on the same post.

foster xbl wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: It will cull the greedy from the passionate, and you know what? That's just fine with me.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage. If a modder is really skilled, and wants to get paid for his or her work, then they should get a job at a game company.

Korodic wrote: You can be passionate & compensated... why can't it be both?

Maybe I don't want a job at a game company. Maybe I'm content doing what I like... modding.

foster xbl wrote: because...... I guess

I dont think compensated is a word valid to a almost slavery job. 25 % is just ridiculous.

[Brasscatcher]

In response to post #24732584. #24734194, #24736024, #24736399, #24736849, #24737484, #24737584, #24737704 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: High five, Wight. It was a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I include popcorn and phantom in this list too. I'll be chucking out a few friend requests today.

Asside from all the namecalling asshats, you people debate WELL. Even those of you making a case for the pay2mod marketplace. Salute.

I guess I have to stick around and be social now...it's kind of hard to go back into the cave after all this! Besides, with my confidence restored, I have mods to get back to work on!

ceilidhachaos wrote: Here, here! :)

jfisha wrote: I'll have to wait until next payday. I dropped a little too much in donations over the past few days. Wife's not happy

WightMage wrote: @Brass Damn right you should, lemme know if you ever need a voice actor or a script writer for a quest. ;)

And @jfisha, LOL, tell her you can write them off on your taxes or something. :P

Brasscatcher wrote: @Wight I just may do that, sir. I'm terrified of papyrus right now. I haven't programmed anything more complicated than a simple website before! But I see all these gorgeous house mods, with hidden stuff, and NPCs, and you open a door in the basement and get sucked off on a 12+ hour questline and...damn, how could you not want to try doing that?! It's like having a chance to make your own version of the Goonies!

Maybe in the aftermath of this, we'll see some other crews form from people debating and sharing ideas in these threads. What can I say, I'm an optimist. If I can get past the creation kit and the various other tools the game offers, I'll definitely give you a holler! :)

jfisha wrote: Brasscatcher

I demand a pirate ship in a hidden cave mod, pronto!

WightMage wrote: @Brass

Ehehe...er, I mean script writing as in, "writes scripts, for movies and... stuff." I actually still have to learn Papyrus myself... ^^;

...But hey! Pirate ship in a totally unknown cave! Great idea!

Maybe you can combine it with this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34475/?

@jfisha @wight

Ok. I have absolutely nothing prepared, but I remember the pirate ship DLC from oblivion. I also love the Goonies, as I mentioned. Skyrim's already got a ship in a cave or several, but it's not very characterful.

I'll start noodling with ideas! :D

Also, I know what you meant, Wight. Hell, Someone who can voice and write in script format? YES PLEASE. I'ma visual guy, teaching myself how to model and such. The coding is going tohappen because...well, lets face it, that's a rare skillset in any community. I can't sit idle hoping I'll meet someone with freetime AND knows the ins and outs of coding Bethsoft mods.