monganfinn

Eh, cool! What is the name of the armor?

http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2capx0/the_chrome_guards_or_how_the_raga_survived/: is this legit? Cuz I read commentries on that several times. In the siege of Alinor, the Numidium was caught in the time warp, catapulting it to the late Fifth Era. Thus escaping the Underking. It then resumes! the war against the Altmer, as it was commanded by Tiber Septim before and "ancestroscythes" them from existence. What happens to the humans? The Nerevarine, piloting the Akulakhan(a fake Numidiium by Dagoth?) battles it/them?(Dwemer), enabling the Wonderweir, carrying Khajit and Dunmer to escape for Masser. Nerevarine loses - does he die? and the Numidium wrecks Nirn. Then it moves on to Masser where it would be verbally defeated(Thu´um?) by a Dunmer known as Jubal Lun-Sul who would later go on to end the Landfall by creating the first of the "New Men" with Vivec." Too bad that denizen of Akavir can´t take part in the battle against the Numidium, they might have something to stop it. Also, taking the "telescope stretching all the way back to the eye of Auri-El" comment of the Altmer seriously, we can assume that there are many "realities" so who nows in which the TES games take place.

Well, the Redguards escape, don´t they. And in the end the Thalmor don´t really win, the whole of Landfall could probably be "healed" with dragonbreak, or some other hex. Would, theoretically the Dovahkiin be recognized as a human or dov?

^I second that!

You could also perhaps explain the coral reefs with that they are the stone or barrier keeping the water back, or at least part of that system. However perhaps exactly that barrier could keep Zir from reaching new Sloads or generally people outside of it? Those dragged down by the maelstrom would be the only people he could overtake.

Before you put the backstory in here, I thought your mod would take place in the sunken remains of Yokudan or Thras. Since the northern coast of High Rock should be a rather cold ocean it might be, from a realism standpoint, a bit strange to have coral reefs etc there, but who cares. Since your backstory covers something quite unrelated to the majority of TES lore I don´t really see a possible point of conflict, the only aspect I don´t really get is why no new Sloads arrived to the place? If Zir could get himself OKos he should be able to get another. Will the Aldmeri be featured? They seemed to have looked more alien than the modern Altmer, looking more like Vivec, only without the grey. This may be a minor discrepancy with lore. Your backstory was very well written and I never had the thought "why would that happen?" which clearly indicates that it is quite logical and can stand by itself.

God damm! this looks breath taking, especially the throne.

Depends on what on calls divine, after all the aedra are worshipped exactly for giving something to Mundus. The daedra are however naturally closer to the et´ada. So yes, more "otherworldly/foreign" than the aedra. I agree with you that there shouldn´t be any lore-reason as to why Shor would have needed to not show himself. Bethesda simply didn´t want to show him and the trick with the "mortals would die" is merely taken from ancient religions akin to the mesopotamic religion. However, have we ever seen a aedra inside their realm?

Well yes, naturally. However, both examples of the Daedric Princes and Martin Septim as Akatosh are of beings who are less divine than Shor or Lorkhan. Though I don´t understand why Shor should only be a part of Lorkhan, both suffered the same fate at the Convention. They are one merely called two names. Even if they act a bit different, their deaths at the hands of Trinimiac are the same. So no matter how lazy the people at Bethesda are and how bad an excuse they gave, for it stands to reason that Shor could have "diminished" his aura so that mortals with a dovahsil! could see him witout dying, it doesn´t change that the Heroes should know if Shor is never! there. At least if they aren´t lying to the PC. So if Talos is still separate from Shor/Lorkhan than Talos should have not erased Shor in such a way that would deactivate Snow-Throat. After all Talos never really replaces Shor/Lorkhan in any pantheon. Even if we say that Snow-Throat is only tied to the nordic Shor as long as Sovngarde exists, the nordic Shor should as well, afterall Sovngarde is only tied to Shor no other aedra. Thus at minimum to deactivate Snow-Throat the Nord would have to stop wanting to go to Sovngarde and renounce Shor, which probably won´t happen unless all Nords are killed. However even in this case, perhaps, Talos would absorb Shor´s "mantles", if he is still worshipped by Nords.

That´s a really interesting theory! However the heroes of Sovngarde told the PC that Shor only left because mortals wouldn´t survive seeing him, I am inclined to believe them on this. Furthermore, as I am no expert on the mantling process I could be wrong, shouldn´t Talos have "replaced" Shor while mantling him? And Wulfharth would have mantled Shor´s warrior aspect while Tiber Septim mantled the "politician"/trickster aspect - to my understanding. Therefore I would rather believe that Talos took up Shors position as pillar of Snow-Throat. Which in turn means that Snow-Throat could only be deactivated if Talos, Wulfharth, Shor and Zacrin Arctus? all vanish, which is realisticaly impossible since Talos is CHIM. I at least think that mantling functions by "harmonizing" the "spirit-wavelength" of two or more entities, which means that they are the same being only in different locations and aspects. Thus your theory would, I believe, only work if Shor would have needed to remain totally "pure" or undiluted in comparison from his form when he was in the cave.

Do you mean that because the Nords nowadays worship Talos more than Shor that Snow-Throat is deactivated?

Isn´t it theorized that Martin Septim reactivated the Whitegold Tower as incarnation of Akatosh? Furthermore "Snow Throat" was shown split in half on Alduin´s wall, even if that is an allusion to the civil war, with the wars end the tower would function again, right? After all it isn´t the first time the Nords aren´t united.

Eh? I just looked it up on the wiki, but if you refer to the "only love can" then don´t they mean achievbing CHIM? I had totally forgotten that Landfall happens in the 5th era, no wonder the Dragonborn wouldn´t be able to do something about it. Though do we know what happens to the dovah apart from Alduin when he eats a kalpa?

I take it we don´t really know which method the Thalmor use to achieve that? I believe to have read that the Redguards also escape destruction by living on the moon or Oblivion? If the Thalmor succeed to unmake Nirn, rather than Mundus(which would include the aedric planes/planets?) without resetting the Kalpa than that would explain how this really is the last Kalpa as some argue. Unless that state is somehow reversed or a new version of a mortal plane pops up.

So even though they fail to destroy Talos, they still manage to end Mundus, how? Or does Talos function as a lock on creation only because he is worshipped?

Exactly but with Talos it should be impossible? Right? So how do they make it work? Any ideas?

I don´t think that we can be sure that Orkey is even Malacath himself, while Malacath or Mauloch(who was probably only a powerful Ork chief, for what kind of Daedric Prince gets done in so easily) certainly antagonized the Atmorans or rather the Nords, I rather believe that Malacaths former existence Trinimiac is the basis for Orkey. Who together with Auri-El(from Krypton!) fought against Shor/Lorkhan and the ancestors of the humans. IMO it could also be Boethia, as he is known for treachery and tricking the Atmorans is more up his alley than the warring Malacath, although we now that Wulfharth also was in conflict with Orkey. Arkay is also theoretical base for Orkey, as both have a connection with mortality/death. What makes TES lore so complicated is for one the different accounts from the antagonistic cultures and the concept of manteling most of all as with that nothing is truly certain. Do we know for a fact, how the Thalmor destroy Mundus? They obviously cannot undo Talos.

How come the Redguards always escape destruction? And how come the Dragonborn isn´t stopping the Thalmor? No matter which race he is, he already stopped Alduin from eating the world just for the Thalmor to destroy it? Or is he already dead, since the victory of the Thalmor is long after TesV:Skyrim? The demonic races, powerful enought to chase the dovah away just sit by when the planet - but not the plane of Mundus, the other "planets" are aedric planes but the moons?, gets unmade? Quite frankly I can´t see the Thalmor winning, I can see them winning over the empire but to reach their goal, there are many powerful beings in their way, the dovah- for the PC never extinguished them, the Akavir races, the creatures living in the sunken lands etc

Which is exactly where I see a problem. According to lore time became linear with the birth of Akatosh which in turn made it easier for the other et´ada to manifest. The convention was outside of aurbic time and thus doesn´t count. Or perhaps it is simply a fixed occurence, but certainly not part of linear time. Was a new different linear time line created just for Mundus? How then can there be a different time system in Mundus and Oblivion and Aetherius? Why doens´t a new calpa beginn with the birth of Akatosh? The Allmaker could perhaps refer to either Pandomay/Sithis or the Dreamer/Godhead - Anu?. In Hinduism the Kalpa is a single day in the life of the creator Brahma, perhaps the TES calpa refers to the same and the two bells indicate a partial awakening?

Then how do they want to unravel Nirn, simply weakening or even killing Talos shouldn´t achieve that? And we don´t even know for sure if the tower in the imperial capital was reactivated after the Oblivion Crisis.

Oh, I think you can trust them to be jackassess though, among some other things. :laugh:

I believe it to be logical that the Thalmor will need to destroy the stones as they need a way to unravel Mundus besides being eaten by Alduin - though that lizzard doesn´t look as if able to anyway - Far more important is if the unraveling of mundus through the destruction of the towers would truly spawn a new calpa or simply forever integrate Mundus into Oblivion as Sithis wants? Or is Mundus caught in a time loop restarting with the convention, that would explain why the rest of Aurbis has a different time concept as Mundus, even though the original Akatosh already introduced linear time long before the creation of mundus? The possibility to see and enter the different calpas from outside Mundus may also explain the behaviour of the aedra and CHIMs, it is also questionable if for them something as a last calpa exists anyway as all the calpa are always accessible to them. I believe its for them as if you have x video screens before you and they simply take action to extent the calpa which brought the best results until know, through we don´t really know how the other calpa went anyway. While it is certainly true that CHIM has limits, the Thalmor as they are now are heading towards their own destruction and are taking everyone with them, thus it would fullfil the mercyfull and loving aspect of CHIM if someone stops them, perhaps not through might but persuasion? a different approach?

The Thalmor want to destroy the towers keeping Mundus in existence. There are several, for example the one in the summerset islands, High Hrothgar, the Red Mountain, the one in the imperial capital etc. Deactivating those would unravel Mundus and thus turn the descendants of the original et´ada back into their immortal selves. I don´t think it is confirmed if every lifeform on Nirn is a descendant of the et´ada or if some were created as the nords claim. Ancanos stunt was merely that, a personal stunt that wasn´t part of his superiors plans or a possible new solution. They want to ban Talos worship as the gods draw power from the worship of mortals, ironically banning Talos worship due to that reason means that they acknoledge that Talos is a god. The Thalmor don´t know nor would accept that Talos is CHIM thus their plan in their minds is sound Why are the two CHIMs doing nothing to stop the Thalmor?

Lorkhans plan was to enable the et´ada to achieve CHIM by becoming mortals - blatantly stolen from buddhism :laugh: Thus with 2 beings already having achieved CHIM, this is definetely a succesful calpa, however I find it questionable to think it would be the last. Sure it can be extended and all threats to mundus defeated but the last calpa would be one where everyone achieves CHIM. And I don´t see that happening. The fine tuning concept seems to me more "realistic".

Depends on what you want but perhaps we shouldn´t change the armor and weapon effectiveness too much so that mods with new gear won´t be incompatible.