CaptainPatch

Never. If there was ever someone that qualifies as "rehabilitated", it's him. Literally, without Paarthurnax's assistance, the world would still be dominated by dragons. He may have been responsible for thousands/tens of thousands of deaths way back when. But compare that to the millions that didn't die because of his assistance over the intervening millenia.

CTDs usually occur because there are conflicts between programming elements (mod or core programming) wrestling for control of that location. Hearthfire DLC would NOT be the issue... UNLESS there is a mod that also calls for an action at the jarl's longhouse. (Probably something that calls for a line of dialog with the jarl, or anyone else inside the longhouse.)

As was mentioned, if you are doing the Main (Dragon) Quest, it involves a a peace conference which I really, really dislike. HOWEVER, if you do the civil war quest first as a Stormcloak, it makes for some quirky logic flaws. (Diplomatic Immunity as a Stormcloak? While working with the Blades? That just seems .... wrong.)

As the PC, you discover that being Dragonborn means you can learn a Shout almost instantly. So it could have been just a matter of hours at High Hrothgar to learn several Shouts. The Greybeards, if they recognized Tiber's Dragonblood could have tested their hypothesis by showing him a Shout. And then another, and another. Pretty quickly, he has an entire Shout portfolio. Now, I don't know the timeline well enough, but if Tiber was there after Jurgen Windcaller established his Way of the Voice, the Greybeards would have been trying to impress upon Tiber that the Voice was meant purely to praise the gods. But Tiber leaves and goes around building an empire, tearing down EVERY other empire. Then, in his later years, he recognizes just how much he had abused his gift for worldly things instead of using it "properly" as the Greybeards had tried to teach him. Then in an act of remorse, he deprives himself of the ability to ever use the Voice again "improperly". It's a theory anyway.

LOTS of people back then (and previously) could use the Thu'um. And the bending time was done by the robot. Did he build that robot? No. So if anyone should be revered for that, it would have been the robot-builders.

I'm thinking on the whole hero-becomes-god process and I'm thinking, wouldn't it be like the Mongols declaring Genghis Khan MUST be a god, given everything he accomplished?

Naming the rebellion after the faction leading the rebellion is understandable. But what is missing is why and by who did that faction get named after Ulfric?

There hasn't been a Dragonborn on the throne since 3 E 433. It's now 4 E 201. If not having a Dragonborn on the throne was such a big dealbreaker, why didn't Skyrim secede from the Empire in over two centuries?

The closest thing I found from Hadvar was this: After your escape, you may now inquire with Hadvar about the civil war and its causes. You can ask him about who the other prisoners were, to which he will answer: "You didn't know? That was Ulfric Stormcloak and his top lieutenants." You have two ways to reply to this: "He's a traitor of some kind?" "Right, the leader of the Stormcloaks. They claim to be fighting for Skyrim's freedom, but the war is really all about Ulfric wanting to be High King of Skyrim." "I don't pay much attention to current events." "Oh, right, you were caught trying to cross the border into Skyrim, weren't you? You're not kidding. Ulfric's the leader of the Stormcloaks - you know, the traitors trying to break Skyrim away from the Empire."You may ask him who the Stormcloaks are, and Hadvar will ask you back: "You haven't heard of the civil war in Skyrim? I guess down in Cyrodiil people have other things to worry about." before explaining: "It's pretty simple. Ulfric founded the Stormcloaks years ago, as a sort of private army to advance his ambitions. He's always used the ban on the worship of Talos to stir people up against the Empire. He never succeeded in getting much support, so a few months ago he murdered the High King! That got the Empire's attention."

Without confirmation from BOTH sides, what we are dealing with is little more than one side's gossip and rumor interpretation of what is heavily influenced by propaganda. Somebody tossed out that Stormcloak moniker that everybody else seized on and integrated into everyday speech. You would think that somebody would want to take credit for being a trend-setter.

Two different World Wars. He was talking about Germany after WW1, and you are talking about Germany after WW2. Tibet has spent much of its existence being subjugated by Chinese conquerors. When the Qing Dynasty in China fell 1911, the Chinese occupiers severed ties with China and declared themselves to be in control of Tibet. (The warlord period you mentioned.) The Dalai Lama returned from exile in 1912 and expelled the Chinese that remained, making Tibet essentially independent. A formal declaration was issued in 1913. In China at that time, it was there that the warlords were in control. In 1950, with the Communists then in control of mainland China, the Reds invaded, reasserting Chinese ownership of Tibet. So. as it was not the Tibetans affiliating with China, it has been an intermittent succession of Chinese Occupiers in a nation that NEVER wanted them there. That differs significantly from the relationship between Skyrim and the Empire.

As far as I know the ONLY Enchanting plus apparel in the game comes from Solstheim (Dragonborn DLC). If you wear FOUR pieces of Ahzidal's armor -- Armor of Retribution, Boots of Water Walking, Helm of Vision, plus Gauntlet's of Warding -- it will add 10% to your Enchanting Skill. (That's ten percent; not ten points. If your Enchanting is 50, wearing the complete set will raise the Skill to 55.)

Understood. But I'm saying that though somewhat similar, it's not at all analogous to the situation in Skyrim. Banning a religion is not like usurping a religion. And Tibet is an occupied country rather than a long-standing province of an existing empire.

The religious issue is just the rebel leader's casus belli for having started a revolt. A casus belli could be literally ANY difference of opinion between the two sides of the issue. Religion, politics, Economy, whatever. In your example, a more appropriate analogy would be if the Chinese wouldn't be appointing the next Dalai Lama; they would be banning the religion entirely. Personally, I thought kimmera's analogy was spot on.

Now if we could only find at least one Imperial source to say the same thing about it being the Imperials that first assigned the Stormcloak label.

Except that Ulfric was captured before the Imperial City was captured by the Thalmor: According to Thalmor documents, Ulfric was captured by them early in the conflict and interrogated by Elenwen, who later became First Emissary to Skyrim. Through this interrogation, they learned his importance, and he yielded information which they then convinced him had been essential in their seizing of the Imperial City, though the city had actually fallen before he gave up the information. The city had fallen before he gave up the info, but that does not mean that he was captured before it was attacked. ... Keep in mind that for the city to have fallen before he gave up the info, he had to have still been a captive after the city had fallen. I didn't say that he was captured before the city was attacked; I said that he was captured before it had fallen. That might have been before the attack started or after the attack had begun. As far as I know, we don't know which case applies. And I fully agree with your last statement.

Look at the timing of when the Thalmor Talos-hunters first appeared. As was mentioned earlier, Hadvar says that growing up, Talos-worshipers were NOT being hassled. So the Thalmor Talos-hunters didn't appear until after "growing up" was done. That would make it a fairly recent innovation. Probably only since the civil war started. Consider: In all of Skyrim, who would be most likely to blatantly flaunt their Talos worship enough to draw the attention of the Thalmor? That would most likely be Stormcloaks or Stormcloak sympathizers. So, given the civil war, allowing the Thalmor to thin the ranks of the Stormcloaks would be deemed a Good Thing... so why stop it? As for the taking of IMPERIAL CITIZENS, nearly all of those being taken were citizens in rebellion against the Empire. (Talk to a Thalmor prisoner that you may have just freed from a Thalmor patrol. 100% of the time he tells you to go to Windhelm and enlist with the Stormcloaks.) As an aside, I'd like to say that I found it peculiar that NONE of the Talos shrines were found in a smashed condition. I can't imagine that any Thalmor patrol would discover a Talos shrine and then NOT smash it. Except in the case of some few shrines that they use as "fishing holes", like the one East of Whiterun where the PC takes Torygg's war horn to use as an offering to Talos.

Do you have a citation that bears out that assertion? I seem to have missed seeing it anywhere.

Except that Ulfric was captured before the Imperial City was captured by the Thalmor: According to Thalmor documents, Ulfric was captured by them early in the conflict and interrogated by Elenwen, who later became First Emissary to Skyrim. Through this interrogation, they learned his importance, and he yielded information which they then convinced him had been essential in their seizing of the Imperial City, though the city had actually fallen before he gave up the information. Ulfric's "escape" from the Thalmor was likewise before the BotRR because after the battle there was no AD army in Cyrodiil to escape from. Further, it is unlikely that they would have transported Ulfric very far because it takes time to transport a prisoner very far, and that time would be better spent conducting interrogations that might yield info that was relevant to where they were then and there. If Ulfric was with his unit (Legion or militia) when he was captured, then likely the unit was destroyed. [Don't know if they kept POWs as SOP, or if useless prisoners would have been summarily executed during TGW. Never heard anything about POW exchanges.] Judging from the one Thalmor jail we saw under the Thalmor embassy, prisoners would get wrung for anything of value and then their bodies went down the trash chute. That is highly unlikely. After being invaded by the AD while there was a Legion in place, the Empire would willingly disarm itself and trust the AD to NOT invade again against NO opposition?

Post-WW2, who was it that was busily tracking down Nazis throughout Germany and Austria? It wasn't the German government. "To the victors goes the spoils." By the terms of the WGC, Talos worship is forbidden. It doesn't specify who was supposed to conduct the actual policing. The Empire had been giving that part of the treaty lip service. But then the Markarth Incident occurred and the Thalmor saw that lip service for what it was. So, "If you won't uphold that part of the treaty, then we will have to do it!" To which the Empire agreed. (Better to have Talos worshipers hating the Thalmor for hunting them down then for them to be hating the Empire for having done it. Cheaper for the Empire too.)

I have to wonder: If Ulfric was leading a militia unit in Cyrodiil, and then he was captured and held for quite awhile by the Thalmor, who was in charge of that militia during his absence? Where was that militia while he was being captured? Being in charge of a unit, how did the leader get separated from his unit? If there had been a battle/skirmish, for the CO to be collected as a POW, you would think his unit had been mauled/potentially destroyed. Then after Ulfric "escapes", what was the reunion between returned, battered leader and militia unit like? Loosely historically speaking, militia units have been notorious for disappearing when the going gets rough. (Or just when "there's nothing to do" will suffice as an excuse to quit and go home.) Having had their militia leader get captured, and the Legion obviously is making no effort to go rescue him, that alone would be motivation enough for a militia unit to either attempt their own rescue, or just call it quits and go home. So, in my personal opinion, Ulfric was most likely actually in the Legion while in Cyrodiil. And that he didn't form his militia until after his escape from the Thalmor.

Ulfric Stormcloak gathered a militia and toppled the natives in 4E 176, http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Places_M The implication seems to be that Ulfric formed his militia after Igmund made the deal with Ulfric. [i can easily imagine Ulfric doing his recruiting, telling prospective recruits, "If we do this, we can get Talos worship back!"] In point of fact, we know nothing of what Ulfric did after "escaping" from the Thalmor, and his cutting a deal with Igmund. Given what Thalmor "interrogations" are like, I imagine it was highly likely that Ulfric was furloughed home to rest and recover. So there is a possibility that he may not even have been in Cyrodiil when the BotRR went down. It would have also put him in closer proximity to Igmund, which would account for why his militia got to Markarth before the Legion did, once the war had ended.

Not in a world that allows Mercenary to be a viable occupation. A militia is just another form of mercenary company. (There is a suggestion that militia are focused on accomplishing some higher goal, like community defense. Whereas mercenaries are focused on income.)

Doesn't seem like he did anything to discourage them from doing so. In modern terms, I think that they would have been called something like "the Nord Brotherhood" or "Nord Nationalists". (Obvious emphasis on the "Nord".) But what a solid ego boost that his followers essentially label themselves, "HIS Army". Hmm. Then again, "Merrill's Marauders". "Kelly's Heroes". "Darby's Rangers". Etc. But those are all pointedly less-than-army-sized units.

... he was building his own legacy when he organized the Stormcloaks (the militia that recaptured Markarth from the Reachmen/Forsworn)? It certainly looks something like a "cult of personality". Ulfric + Stormcloaks ~ Ysgramor + Companions. IF the PC sides with the Stormcloaks and thereby they win the civil war, Ulfric WILL have secured his place in History. It would be like the beginning of the Tiber Septim rise to supremacy IF he and his Stormcloaks go on to absorb what remains of the Empire. And thereafter defeats the Aldmeri Dominion and reunites ALL of Tamriel under his banner. It would be like HE was Tiber Septim, reincarnated. Maybe designed to become the second Human Divine. It just strikes me as suggestive that he named his army after himself.