CaptainPatch

You really haven't studied much History, have you? About the ONLY time invasions have been spotted right at the border is when the defending nation already had extensive unit deployments, right at the border. The invasion of Hammerfell came out of Cyrodiil. Did Hammerfell have units deployed on the border between Hammerfell and Cyrodiil? Why would any be there, on either side of the border? Both provinces were part of the same Empire. In fact, given the AD presence between Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, Hammerfell probably wasn't even aware that the AD had invaded Cyrodiil. So no Redguard units are even on Alert that there may be a big storm on the way. "Unclear on the concept". Oars on a ship with a sail is for two reasons: 1) alternative motive power for when the wind dropped off and the ship is becalmed. And 2) power augmentation for when the ship needs a burst of speed. Like for chasing down a ship that relies only on wind power and/or has significantly fewer rowers. Nearly all commercial shipping is geared towards economical operation. That means they try to get by with the minimal amount of crew which in turn means fewer available rowers and fighters. Warships, otoh, try to maximize both offensive and defensive capabilities: Bigger sails to catch more wind and a LOT more rowers available to run down vessels that try to flee. Do you even realize that the world is round? There's this thing called "the horizon", and at best it's only 26 miles away. (Assuming Mundus has the same diameter as Earth.) And I haven't noticed anyone using a nautical telescope, so there really wouldn't be much capability to ID vessels more than a few miles away anyway. In a body of water that is hundreds of miles long and hundreds of miles wide. By the time a Redguard vessel could make such an ID, it would be too late for that vessel.

My overall thought is that the dragons are too unified in their support of Alduin. Lore indicates that dragons had been quite territorial, fighting each other where their personal air space intersected. But supposedly by resurrecting them, Alduin made them ALL beholden to him. However, as the MQ progresses and the Dragonborn has been killing off dragons by the score with Alduin doing NOTHING to stop him/her, they should be thinking that resurrection or no, maybe Alduin is NOT the leader they should be following. Which would inevitably lead to some dragon versus dragon battles as they demonstrate their differences of opinion.

The ships are the easy part of it. They can traverse in hours what takes an army days to traverse. Maintaining secrecy is scads easier than you think. That's what scouts are for. A small unit of scouts (about 8-12 cavalry on land or 3 light warships scout ahead, with similar scout detachments on the flanks) travels between the main body any any potential observers. If they encounter individuals or small groups, they take them out immediately. Anything larger gets shadowed to make sure the main body doesn't get seen. If the MB is seen, the observers are now caught between the scout screen and the rather large MB = dead observers. Armies and navies have been doing this literally for millenia. You seem to have not noticed the ships depicted in the TES series. They are essentially modeled after Viking longships. Further, Bethesda never bothered to show the warcraft version; we only see the commercial merchant ships. A nation going to war will be deploying warships and perhaps using the commercial vessels as transports. What you aren't seeing are the oars, which are generally stowed out of the way when the ship is operating in sail mode. Trying to lecture me on logistical supply mechanics is pretty much "trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs", really.

To be fair, yes, "Some days you eat the bear; other days the bear eats you." But multi-pronged attacks DO succeed well enough and often enough that generals still keep devising them. And in hindsight, we can see that in regards to the Thalmor invasion of Hammerfell, it almost came off flawlessly. The ONLY shortcoming was that Hegathe was able to set adequate defenses in time to force the Thalmor to establish a siege rather than simply take the city by storm. You are of course referring to the best defensive strategy. And that strategy addresses an offensive strategy of ONE massive army attacking cities like they were dominoes. It also presupposes that the Thalmor achieved ZERO surprise. Against a simultaneous multi-pronged attack at several locations, where would retreating Redguard forces go after escaping the onslaughts at Rihad, Taneth, and Gilane? The nearest Redguard city was Hegathe, and it was besieged. That left only Sentinel -- or North across the Alikr. (Which is apparently what the bulk of Imperial did in the March of Thirst.) Note that by taking that option, they did NOT have any noteworthy forces escape on ships (likewise going who-knows-where). Had the Thalmor failed to achieve any substantial degree of surprise over the Redguard defenders, there would have undoubtedly been a passage that read something like, "Perceiving the approaching Thalmor invasion, and realizing that no defense would adequate if they tried to hold everywhere, the Imperial forces consolidated what they could in Hegathe, which eventually proved to be a nut the Thalmor could not crack." No such passage exists for the simple reason that it didn't happen that way. Hence, the March of Thirst instead. Were _both_ the Forebears and Crown totally blind to the threat? Forebears: "Not our problem. Those are Crown cities being attacked." Crown: "Well, if you won't help with the defense, we won't bother to defend either! And when the AD owns half of Hammerfell, then you'll be sorry! So, nyah, nyah, nyah!" Being part of the Empire, weren't both factions, like, obligated to help defend whichever part of the Empire that gets invaded? This sounds worse than the feud between Scottish Highlanders and Lowlanders.

Small portion, right. Only 3,000 men instead of 30,000. You must think that the Thalmor (and most any empire you do NOT align yourself with) are pretty stupid. Timing a broad offensive spearheading in multiple locations is NOT that hard. It's as simple as, "You need to be at your jump-off point ON the 15th of the month. Not before, and not after. ON." Given the tech level of the environment, anytime on that day would work. Or do you think that Thalmor sea captains can't read a calendar? Hitting the ports one at a time would be the height of stupidity, actually. Then most definitely, EVERY city after the first would have had the opportunity to prepare defenses and stockpile supplies. Hitting them all at once makes for a MUCH more effective campaign. Hegathe, being the furthest away overland from Cyrodiil, would require the longest march time -- and more opportunity for the timetable to get thrown off. The other three, leaving the Cyrodiil border at the same time as the Hegathe force, had a lot more flexibility to compensate for unseen delays and still be at their jump-off locations on time. Note that there is no mention that the Thalmor had to do any kind of siegecraft at the first three ports -- which means that the Thalmor successfully surprised the Redguards and overran the cities on the first push.

History is filled with precisely those kinds of occurrences. So, patently, it can be done. And don't forget the mentioned forces that arrived by sea. What do you think happens to ships exiting a port and run into a squadron of warships loaded with Marines and soldiers? At the same time the land forces arrive, the naval squadrons take up station at the harbor entrances.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Great_War Smaller Aldmeri forces landed along the southern coastline of Hammerfell. The disunited Redguard forces offered only scattered resistance to the invaders, and much of the southern coastline was quickly overrun. In Hammerfell, the Thalmor were content to consolidate their gains as they took control of the whole southern coastline, which was in fact their stated objective in the ultimatum delivered to the Emperor. Of the southern cities, only Hegathe still held out. The forces that they brought into Hammerfell -- by both land and sea -- was what they felt would be adequate to secure their objectives (the southern coast of Hammerfell). Lady Arennelya apparently deviated from the plan by pursuing the retreating Imperial forces across the Alikr Desert and capturing Skaven. It's apparent because after having captured the city, the Thalmor on their own initiative withdrew and return to the southern coastland. An army the size of which would be adequate to both capture the southern half of Hammerfell, and thereafter garrison it would have been a logistical nightmare if it moved as one single mass. (Armies at that tech level depended mostly on foraging. Which is why invasions of the period were often described as "a plague of locusts, stripping the land bare in its wake". Logistically, splitting in four divisions traveling separately makes it easier to supply adequately by using foraging. Timing all four attacks to initiate at approximately the same time really isn't all that difficult: Estimate how long it would take a force to march to the most distant objective (Hegathe). The other divisions get to move at a more sedate pace to assure that they do NOT arrive at their objectives too early. Then on the plan's D-Day date was, all four divisions arrive at each of the four cities at approximately the same time -- if the planners estimated correctly how long it would take for the furthest objective to be reached. The first three objectives would definitely initiate their attacks at the same time. The fourth, might have taken longer than estimated though, for whatever reasons, and thus initiated the attack late. [Which would explain why the first three fell quickly while Hegathe was not taken by surprise and had time enough to set a defense, thereby forcing the Thalmor to siege the city rather than overrun it like the other three.] Seeing as how that was Legate Rikke, a Nord, you have to ascertain if she was showing Imperial prejudice, or Nord prejudice.

You aren't phrasing that first statement right. You make it sound like it was a Redguard decision, when in fact it was a decision made by the Emperor. It would be more accurate to say, "Hammerfell could have remained in the Empire, but it failed to obey the command of its lawful emperor. Therefore the emperor disowned Hammerfell, casting it out of the Empire entirely." You are thinking in terms of modern communication. Plus being in a world with satellite observers of where everything is and watching what they are doing. NOT THE CASE. Tamriel is in a tech state approximately equal to the Dark Ages of Earth. Armies could "appear out of nowhere" and take defenders by surprise quite frequently. The AD invasion was NOT a single mass that went from one objective to the next to the next. The four southern ports were attacked at approximately the same time. ("Get into position and launch your attack on your objective city on the 17th day of Whenever".) Refugees from any given port had no idea whatsoever as to what was happening at the other ports. Ships fleeing Taneth that fled to Rihad would arrive only to discover that it had already fallen to the AD, and vice versa. From the refugees' perspective, ALL of the ports could have been overrun. "Facts not in evidence." How do you/we know how many Dunmer are crammed into each unit? I live in what passes for a slum in my county. Most of my Latino neighbors are cramming 3 families on average into one-family apartments. But I can't see that, because I don't go nosing into their homes. I have to rely on census reports to get that info. And since what we see in the way of residents is only the tip of the iceberg, players have no idea how many Dunmer are living in tight quarters. As for given homes, that's government-speak for "made available for their use", provided they pay higher-than-market rents for housing no self-respecting Nord would use for an outhouse.

I'm not certain if Hammerfell even needed to officially declare its independence: Outraged that the terms of the treaty called for a large portion of southern Hammerfell to be turned over to the Dominion, however, the Redguards soundly rejected it. Titus II was forced to officially renounce Hammerfell as an Imperial province That says that the Empire disowned Hammerfell. Hammerfell didn't choose to leave the "house" on its own initiative; it was evicted by the house owner. There's a point where someone can conclude that it is unwise to "throw good money after bad". When BOTH parties in a war come to that conclusion at the same time, they declare a truce and stop fighting. AD agreed to withdraw peacefully. The facts that it chose to withdraw and to stop fighting indicates that what they held in Hammerfell wasn't worth fighting for. There was little or no profit to balance out the cost of continued warfare. The fact that the Redguards agreed to stop fighting indicates that they couldn't afford to continue fighting. Either they lacked adequate military might to succeed, or they couldn't afford to do so financially, or both reasons apply. Given how proud Redguards are as a race, don't you think that they would NOT stop fighting and let the Thalmor go peacefully if they felt that they could instead butcher them and push them out of Hammerfell forcefully? They certainly had a HUGE blood debt to collect from the Thalmor, given what the Thalmor had done to Hammerfell. The accounts provided indicate that the Thalmor managed to overrun three of the four southern ports quite quickly, and that the initial assault came as quite a surprise. To a certain extant, what you suggest is on a par with, "When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, couldn't they have sailed the Pacific Fleet out of the harbor, rather than remain and be sitting ducks?" It takes time to shift a ship from being at-anchor to be able sail. Further, the AD was also a maritime power in its own right, so starting the battles by putting a squadron of warships outside the harbor entrances to trap any ships in the harbors was eminently doable. Besides, unless the ships from Rihad, Taneth, and Gilane had adequate provisions already stowed on board, what would the crews be eating on the long voyage to Setinel -- where they might find that it too was besieged like Hegathe? Then too, I would think that the military commanders in each of the port cities would attempt to impress any sailors ashore into the city defenses when the city came under attack. So, overall, I wouldn't expect that too many Redguard ships made it out of the overrun ports. I emphasized the crucial word in the next paragraph. After five years of warfare, with half the country in enemy hands, there would most likely be a LARGE imbalance between Assets and Liabilities, leaning heavily towards the Liabilities side of the ledger. LOTS of expenses; little (if any) income.Importing anything from Cyrodiil would be problematic, given it would be using most of its resources to rebuild the damage the Thalmor caused during the Occupation. Likewise, High Rock, still being in the Empire, would be expected the bulk of its available resources to Cyrodiil to help with that reconstruction. Resources coming from Morrowind and Black Marsh would necessarily come with some hefty transportation surcharges. (Plus inflated pricing to begin with, given that Demand so far exceeds Supply.) You mean like long-lived and yet prolific Bowhead Whales, Rougheye Rockfish, Red Sea Urchin, Galapagos Tortoise, Shortraker Rockfish, Lake Sturgeon, etc.? It's not just about longevity; it's also about survivability. Almost constant warfare tends to keep even long-lived populations down. You forgot to add the important phrase, "that we know of". Do you really think that Bethesda has portrayed EVERY citizen of EVERY community in the game? What we see is "the tip of the iceberg". Status and conditions are shown via dialog with the few characters that we are actually able to interact with. (BTW, I find it kind of humorous that ALL of the beggars that we see are Nords. Where I live, every day there are large numbers of Latino dayworkers positioned on my city's main thoroughfare, try to flag down prospective employees. Meanwhile, over on street corners, you frequently encounter Anglos -- NEVER a Latino -- holding cardboard signs, begging for money for doing nothing more than standing around holding a cardboard sign. I see a distinct similarity between Nords and Anglos.)

I think it's your absolute insistence that the Redguards "drove the AD out" that is irritating. From the UESPwiki: After five years, the war ends in a stalemate with the signing of the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai See that word "stalemate"? That's when neither side wins. The fighting stopped and apparently the AD concluded there wasn't anything left worth sticking around for. They were NOT chased onto their ships. They did NOT have to fight a rearguard action to make good their escape. They took their time and packed up and simply sailed away, unopposed, with no need to defend themselves from vengeful Redguards. If _I_ choose to leave, it is not the same as someone having forced me to leave. Your descriptions make it sound like the AD's departure was like the Persians fleeing after losing the Battle of Marathon. In fact, there was NO climactic battle like the Battle of the Red Ring. Just an agreement between the combatants that continuing warfare wouldn't benefit either side. What Hammerfell ships do you speak of? All those that the AD captured when they captured most of the Redguard ports, minus Hegathe? Those most likely were used by the Thalmor to transport loot and their personnel back to Alinor. There is a harsh Economic reality that you are completely ignoring. To purchase materials to rebuild an entire nation, it takes money. After having had literally half of their cities Occupied and looted, three of its five ports Occupied and suffered who-knows-what for five years of abuse, where is Hammerfell going to get the money? Not the Empire; relations were strained after Hammerfell got dumped by the WGC. Certainly not the AD. Who is left to be charitable to a proud but impoverished independent Hammerfell? No one. EVERYTHING that was destroyed or damaged in Hammerfell's struggle with the AD has to be rebuilt by Hammerfell itself, from scratch. First MUST be to restore food production. (Starving workmen tend not to be very productive. And they have a nasty tendency to die of starvation when they don't get fed.) Just getting the agriculture and fisheries back up to speed enough to feed the population would take years. Then there is all of Hammerfell's industries that will need to be rebuilt in what had been the Occupied zones. And relying entirely on their own resources, there WILL be a large manpower shortage, given all the casualties from warfare, disease, and starvation. It's unlikely that there will be hordes of immigrants wanting to move to Hammerfell, given its likely condition after so many years of war. And the limited amount of money left in circulation. However many years after the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai, the reason that so little is heard about what is happening in Hammerfell probably is because Hammerfell is still repairing the damage from that war. BTW, while it IS mentioned that elves do live considerably longer than humans, it does NOT mention anywhere that they reproduce at a slower rate. That's an assumption you (and to be fair, probably most people) have made. If you have ever been in the Deep South and witnessed really deep-seated racism up close, you will have inevitably seen a significant number of African-Americans that "just want to get by with no trouble". They are referred to as "Uncle Toms", blacks that are VERY respectful of whites, and even agree that the root of race problems is because of "uppity black folks". Basically, "If I am cooperative and helpful to the dominant group, they will treat me okay and overlook the fact that I am a member of the race they despise." So, just because you can cite ONE pro-Nord really doesn't prove anything. The fact that you can find _20_ dissatisfied Dunmer, otoh, does sort of indicate that Windhelm has some race relations difficulties.

This lack of strategic insight is becoming humorous. It's not necessary to "destroy the whole coastline" to destroy Hammerfell's maritime capacity. Just ruin all of the likely safe harbors and anchorages. Just drop enough BIG rocks at the entrance to those locations and any incoming vessel is likely to rip open its hull trying to enter. But it takes time to gather and transport those rocks into position at not just the active ports, but also the potential port sites. Also during that period, the Thalmor could be depleting all of the active Redguard mines in southern Hammerfell. Using conscripted Redguard laborers. Essentially, after the Redguards get southern Hammerfell back, they have to rebuild everything from scratch. Resource exploitation, communities, harbors, mines, and even the population. And to do so, the Redguard government would have to pour most of whatever little Treasury they have left after the war into the recovery effort -- which is guaranteed to be a llllooooonnnngggg, slow process. With no Foreign Aid from anywhere outside of Hammerfell. [That's the big drawback of no longer being in the Empire. While in the Empire, the provinces outside of Cyrodiil might have been treated like second-class citizens, but at least they got something in the way of Imperial investment. But now that Hammerfell is out of the Empire, it doesn't even get that.] "Everything of value" includes production output. That's an ongoing process. Men are not necessarily better fighters than elves. Then again, men don't have as long to hone their skills. [Your description of the battle between Nord fighter and elf wizard reads like a Conan The Barbarian cartoon. A really bad one. You entirely ignore the fact that wizard spells are ranged attacks, versus your Nord's melee weapon. And that "resistant" =/= "impervious". Resistant to damage doesn't amount to much when being hit with a one megaton bomb-equivalent.] One of the Nord farmers outside of Windhelm describes just how hard it is to eke out a harvest from the rocky soil around Windhelm. LOTS of hard work for little harvest. Understandably, most people have no interest in being Windhelm farmers. But the need for crops remains. So quite likely, Ulfric is willing to allow anyone, of any race, to do farming, just to add more produce for the city. Do you see the word scolls anywhere in that quote? The Tower was looted, yes, but what if the scrolls were moved, hidden, or recaptured? I am having a hard time trying not to laugh. It says that the WGTower was "looted", as in "took everything of value". That would include the Elder Scrolls. What did you expect, a detailed inventory of everything that was taken?

Well, it's obviously a bug then. As painful as it is, you may have to Uninstall and then re-Install TES5 + DLCs (or just Legendary TES5). Note all of the mods you are using currently. Go back to a Save from before you bought the Lakeview Manor and put in in a safe temporary folder. After the re-Install, transfer the Save back into the Skyrim Saves folder. Then NMM download your list of mods. Time-consuming as all hell, but what else can you do? If after doing all that, the problem still occurs, it means that you have a mod conflict interfering. Then comes the laborious task of which mods are in conflict with that location.

You aren't big on strategy, are you? "Winning" is not always ONLY about taking and holding real estate. What is it that the Hammerfell southern ports had that the Thalmor would want? Probably something maritime, since we are talking about about ports. LOTS of Merchant Marine, perhaps? Warehouses full of goods maybe? Maybe they represented MAJOR competition to Thalmor shipping lines. Maybe they provided too great of a transport capacity that the Empire might exploit someday to assault Summerset Isle. I bet Hammerfell doesn't have anywhere near the shipping capacity or wealth it had before the AD invaded. And with 5 years of effort, I wouldn't be surprised if every potential Redguard port on the south coast hasn't been ruined by Thalmor sabotage. If you burn a city, it can just be rebuilt. But fill the harbor with sunken ships filled with rocks, and it may take decades before that harbor is even marginally useful again. And don't even begin think that goods and resource transport that took months couldn't be profitable. In Real Life, the East India Company is a prime example of just how wrong you are. Not "would have to train longer"; it's more correct to say "be able to train longer". MUCH longer. Like centuries more training. For BOTH Magic and Martial Combat. Imagine Conan at 200 in a 500 year lifespan. Or an entire regiment of Gandalfs the White. While your "potent" Nord fighter is bringing up his shield, the experienced elf mage is turning him into an ice sculpture. Conan The Barbarian only won against wizards because he had the scriptwriters on his side. Alchemy shops attract customers, of EVERY category. EVERYBODY needs potions. Those customers inevitably spend money in the city where they get their potions. (Inns, crafts, etc.) Importing potions in bulk involves a significant price markup. And what is in stock depends on Inventory on hand. In contrast, an alchemist in residence can whip up whatever potion is needed, on the spot. At a cheaper cost, because there are no transport fees. (Or shipments lost to bandits or Forsworn.) And a really talented alchemist can attract customers from further away for the same reason that people prefer the product of Masters more than the product of Journeymen or Apprentices. ("You get what you pay for.") All around, it's just too useful to have an alchemist in residence. And the more famous the alchemist, the better it is for the city.

First, what is stated is that the fighting continued for five years. There is no statement that says that the Thalmor were actively trying to capture ALL of Hammerfell. They already had control of the southern ports except Hegathe, which was pretty much the "prime cut" from Hammerfell. And as kimmera pointed out, there isn't even one account that states that the Thalmor reinforced Hammerfell at all. There is also a distinct difference between "defeat" and "strategic withdrawal". (More about that later.) "Flat out losing a war"? They certainly didn't lose the Great War with the Empire. They had every one of their demands met, and then some. As for Hammerfell, there wasn't any fighting in the desert mentioned (unless Skaven is built in the desert). They chased the retreating Imperials across the desert, fought a battle near Skaven, captured the city, and then withdrew back to the southern ports, unopposed. It's never mentioned just what the loss ration was between Thalmor and Redguards. It could be that while the Thalmor were losing hundreds, the Redguards were losing thousands. Bleeding the Redguards that much could be construed as being a worthwhile investment. It's never really mentioned just what kind of condition the Thalmor-occupied portion of Hammerfell was in after the Thalmor departed. It may very well be that the Thalmor spent those additional five years methodically dismantling the infrastructure of southern Hammerfell while also exporting EVERYTHING of value to Summerset Isle. Aside from some Alikr bounty-hunters -- not government Intelligence operatives, just mercenaries -- chasing down a Redguard collaborator, you really don't hear about Hammerfell doing much of anything on the world stage. If after several decades, Hammerfell was still repairing the damage from the Thalmor Occupation, it would explain why it has taken such a low profile in world events. It would also mean that if Great War, Part II were to kick off withing the next decade or so, Hammerfell would not be in any condition to participate in any meaningful fashion. Do keep in mind that a longer lifespan amounts to greater experience. Just off the cuff, which would expect to be the more powerful: a 100-year-old human mage, or a 500-year-old elf mage? Even if the elf was only 200 years old, he would have had a LOT more experience to enhance his power. PLUS while the human at 100 years has grown physically feeble, while the elf is "in the prime of Life". [LOTS of elves in the game relate anecdotes of what they doing centuries ago. And lastly, as for Nurelion owning a shop in Windhelm, it is pointed out in several places in the game that any worthwhile city in Skyrim MUST have an Alchemy shop. If it happens that Nurelion was the only or most renown alchemist to want to open that shop -- and Nurelion's reputation is hinted at by the fact that his apprentice came all the way from Cyrodiil to study under Nurelion -- it would be foolish of Ulfric (or, more likely, Ulfric's father) to NOT have Nurelion as Windhelm's resident Alchemist. Racist doesn't necessarily mean NOT pragmatic.

Just out of curiosity, once the build table indicates that the entry house has been built, go to where you should see the entry door. Move the cursor around and see if there is an "E, Open door" indicator. I'm thinking that maybe what is happening is the completed graphics aren't triggering. So, in effect, you would have an invisible house. Go inside and discover everything inside is normal, possibly. Just a thought.

From the same source you cited: It appears now that the initial Aldmeri objective was in fact the conquest of Hammerfell, and that the invasion of Cyrodiil was intended only to pin down the Imperial legions while Hammerfell was overrun. However, the surprising initial success of Lord Naarifin's attack led the Thalmor to believe that the Empire was weaker than they had thought. And In Hammerfell, the Thalmor were content to consolidate their gains as they took control of the whole southern coastline, which was in fact their stated objective in the ultimatum delivered to the Emperor. As the Thalmor captured enemy territory, it would be necessary to deploy garrison units in order to keep what they captured. Then there was also the larger force that was needed to maintain the siege of Hegathe. What was left of the Thalmor mobile force in Hammerfall under the command of Lady Arennelya obviously saw the Imperials retreating across the Alikr Desert. And as I said, it is not at all uncommon for field commanders (which is what Lady Arennelya was) to "smell blood in the water" and decide to pursue a fleeing enemy. That pursuit resulted in the "indecisive" battle, which despite being "indecisive", prompted the Imperials to abandon Skaven. After that point, there are no accounts of additional battles north of the desert. But for whatever reason, Lady Arennelya abandoned Skaven and headed back to the southern coastlands. (Apparently no one thought Skaven was worth keeping.) The best explanation for that withdrawal is that either Lady Arennelya herself decided that the desert made supply logistics untenable (which I think is unlikely, because field commanders always hate giving up real estate they fought to gain) or else she received orders from Higher Up telling here to get back to someplace where they could keep her forces supplied. As to why they "won the war", it's because the Thalmor let them win. No sources can lay out just what the Thalmor High Command's strategy is. But the situation in Hammerfell was more like the Thalmor just withdrawing in good order rather than the Redguards hammering on frantic retreating Thalmor soldiers trying desperately to board the last departing transport ships. Obviously, the Thalmor High Command concluded that those forces in Hammerfall would be more useful elsewhere. (Like giving the Empire the coup de grace after the Empire kept disintegrating in the aftermath of the WGC. And given just how much longer elves live, that "after" could be a century or more later and still be doable.)

Just to be certain, you ARE aware that building is a two-step process, right? The left bench activates the building sections to be built. (You must start with activating and then building the small House first, before expanding on that by activating the Main Hall and then the several wings.) Then you go to the right bench and start constructing the components (foundation, floor, walls, roof, etc.) of an activated section. If you have the necessary materials in your Inventory, you can click through the components rapidly. You have to turn around to see the constructed sections that you just threw together. (Apparently you are Flash the Carpenter, able to construct an entire manor in less than an hour.) Once you have constructed the basic outer structure, enter the building. In each section of the manor is a small work bench which, like the right-hand bench outside, you can construct the furnishings for each section. When you are completely done placing the furnishings to your satisfaction, go back outside to the left-hand bench. You will find an option to remove the interior workbenches for each of the manor sections. BTW, to completely finish the manor, you will need a LOT of lumber from the nearest sawmill. At least 200 pieces. (The sawmill sells you only 20 pieces at a time.)

It is clearly stated that the AD's objective in Hammerfall was to seize the southern ports. However, after the Redguards retreated across the Alikr Desert, it would not be uncommon for an overenthusiastic commander to deviate from the planned strategy by pursuing a retreating enemy. This is apparently what Lady Arennelya did, and by doing so captured Skaven. [An "indecisive battle" followed by a significant city being captured by the enemy? That sounds like spin to me. Like saying "made a strategic withdrawal" instead of "was routed from the field of battle."] It wouldn't be at all unusual to have had the Thalmor High Command message "We didn't want Skaven! It's too distant and the supply line across the desert is untenable. Return to our initial objective area immediately!" Then seeing the Thalmor withdraw back across the desert, the author describes it as, "The Redguards drove the Thalmor forces back across the desert." After all, he doesn't describe the withdrawal as occurring after some precipitous battle,.... or after any battle at all for that matter. The only battle north of the desert that is mentioned is that "indecisive" battle which ended with Skaven being captured.

I never could understand the Tamriel calendar. There's "late 174" and there would be "later than that 174". Overall, the Thalmor had achieved their objectives of securing all of Hammerfall's southern ports, with the exception of Hegathe, which was besieged. Later, the Redguards managed to break the siege of Hegathe, but in balance, they lost Skaven. Win some; lose some. But in the case of the Redguards, it was win ONE, and lose some, and lose some, and lose some, and lose some more. In overview, I really cannot see how that can be interpreted as, "We're winning in Hammerfell!" Claiming that they had "stopped the Thalmor advance" when in fact the Thalmor already had what they came for is kind of disingenuous. There really wasn't any "bright spark of hope" for the Emperor to see after the Battle of the Red Ring had concluded.

I'm not sure that there's a timeline of the fighting in Hammerfell, but I gather that at the time of WGC, the fighting was still going on. Furthermore, I get the impression that the "Redguard victories in Hammerfell" didn't start happening until after the WGC had been signed. So, absent any news of Redguards routing Thalmor forces several times, I can't imagine that there was anything for the Emperor to feel optimistic about the fighting in Hammerfell. It's like the ONLY "victory" he could see was the Battle of the Red Ring -- and as Pyrrhus famously said, "Another such victory and I come back ....alone",[

The actual wording was more akin to, "Those legions that were not destroyed outright had sustained at least 50% casualties." So, it wouldn't have been "two or three legions left", but rather 7 legion remnants. Organizationally, Armies do NOT like to just shuffle unit fragments into composite full-strength units. They sink a lot of effort into building esprit de corps for each major unit. "The Bloody 5th" or "The Fighting 4th", etc. Normally, units that took substantial losses will get built back up to full strength rather than essentially disbanding the unit by merging it with other unit fragments. In more immediate concern is that all those fragments will NOT coordinate well, not having worked closely together as they had with their comrades in the destroyed portion of the unit. Additionally there is the consideration of what happens when you merge multiple command structures: You mix three command hierarchies together, but you only need ONE chain of command. Effectively, 2/3rds of the command chain have just been demoted -- which further hurts the morale of the ad hoc unit. In contrast, the AD still had the garrisons they maintained in both Valenwood and Elswyr (both of which were Occupied provinces that had been long since pacified). Fresh, still parts of coherent, intact command structures. Plus whatever Home Guard/Imperial Guard/Household Guards or whatever label the Thalmor used to designate the units that had been left to guard the Thalmor Capital while the rest of their forces fighting the Empire. So, not just other fresh Thalmor units, but also some elite units as well. It seems an odd supposition that most of the legions assigned to be Hammerfell would deliberately NOT participate in the fighting in either Hammerfell or Cyrodiil. The Empire is getting trashed, and those guys sit out the fighting? Sounds cowardly, doesn't it. Given how much longer-lived elves are than humans, the Thalmor might have been seeing a golden opportunity. Whichever side rebuilt its armies first would have a distinct (probably overwhelming) advantage in the next war. And since the perceived loser would be dealing with social disruption at home, the Empire with it's civil war in Skyrim and the total loss of Hammerfell would be at a very distinct disadvantage trying to rebuild its shattered Military. The AD could easily get to the next D-Day 30-40 years ahead of the Empire's rebuilding schedule. (And the AD's ability to have roving military patrols throughout the Empire gives them a very useful ability to be constantly updating their evaluation of the Empire's military preparedness.

Where is that ever stated? I always got the impression that overall, for the length of the Great War, the Empire suffered a LOT more. Consider the large number of civilian casualties inflicted by the Thalmor Occupation. That hurts the Military two ways: 1) It reduces the population from which soldiers are drawn. 2) Both soldier-capable civilians and actual soldiers will be motivated to return to what is left of their families and homes to try to pick up the pieces as best they can. In contrast, the Thalmor were NOT dealing with any similar devastation on their home front.

I think the actual qualifying factor, it's the "help my people" quests that rounds out the "well known and respected by all throughout the hold" part of Thane-ship. Most of those can be satisfied simply by investing in the several merchants around town. Given what "Thane" means in Skyrim -- well known and useful guy to have around town -- that seems adequate for being labeled a Thane. (To me, anyway.) An important bit of data that is missing is just how many thanes are there already in the Hold? Just a few would indicate that maybe it really is a Big Deal. More than 20 and it's No Big Deal. [but hard to imagine jarls being able to hand out "this (enchanted) weapon from my armory" to LOTS of thanes.]

Once a conclusion has been reached, it's very easy to say, "If only we hadn't stopped!" You can paint whatever Most Optimal Outcome and say, "This is what we could have had!" But what about the possibility of the Worst Possible outcome? After Capital City, BOTH the AD and the Empire were in sad shape... and it's hard to say which was in the worse shape. Apparently the decisionmakers on the scene -- Titus Meade II and his remaining commanders and advisers concluded it was the Empire that was in worse shape. (Can you imagine any general worth his salt advising surrender after winning a decisive battle? So it was a Pyrrhic Victory, the AD lost worse! But like two boxers that have just gone 20 rounds, if forced to, they will go another 20 rounds, or until one boxer goes to the morgue and the other goes to the hospital and the ICU. Keep in mind that the Empire was looking at what was left for the entire Empire. EVERYTHING that was available from Skyrim was already there (what was left of it. The Redguards were entirely engrossed in what was happening in their home province. (Not sure what was happening with the Bretons.) Cyrodiil, being the location where most of the fighting and AD Occupation had been was thoroughly trashed. In contrast, the AD still had whatever forces they had stationed in Summerset Isle, Valenwood, and Elswyr. And those locations still had uninterrupted logistical supply lines still in place and unfettered. Fresh forces. The Empire tossing in the towel when it did offered the best terms they were likely to get. Pressing the fight only stood to worsen their bargaining position. And you aren't calculating the odds correctly. It's NOT 3-to-1; it's 4-to-3. Cyrodiil + Highrock + (maybe) Hammerfell + (maybe) Skyrim. Versus. In contrast, the AD would have Summerset Isle + Valenwood + Elswyr. Also factor in that Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, and Skyrim (after a civil war) would be in poor condition after all the fighting that had taken place in those provinces.

Hunh. I always thought of myself more of a Rogue with a conscience. Looks Like I'm too much conscience and not enough Rogue.