primem0ver

Here is another interesting fact: I just took a look at the SEQ file in a hex editor. The SEQ file is just a list of form id's for quests in the mod that should be active from the beginning. There is NOTHiNG else in this file at all. I remember reading that somewhere so the SEQ file has nothing to do with this problem.

Hmmm interesting. However I haven't recorded any dialogue. I use the addon that makes this unnecessary and I haven't looked for someone to do the dialogue for me yet (there are only 2 new characters and they are both female... I am male). I don't have a sound folder in my mod or in the override folder (for Mod Organizer). Here is an interesting fact: I found that I can move a dialogue branch from one quest to another. If I do this, the dialogue works. All I have to do is move the dialogue from the "broken" quest to another quest and it works. It SOUNDS like an SEQ problem but it isn't because I added another dialogue to a brand new quest and recreated the SEQ yet the old lines I created before still don't show while the new dialogue (and moved dialogue) does. Bottom line, this confirms my suspicion that it is something about the quest itself that is creating the issue. I guess I will have to recreate the entire quest again unless someone has the answer.

Yes but the stage is set correctly. And again... the conditions don't matter. Again: When I create a new topic branch in the same quest it doesn't work even without conditions. Remember that if NO conditions exist on a topic branch/response that any player you click on in the game should have that topic branch (as long as they don't have a preset blocking/exclusion topic). No one has the topic branch on them at all. If I create a NEW quest and add the same condition-less topic branch, it works fine as long as recreate the SEQ file. Ultimately the above fact suggests one thing (at least to me). Something about the quest itself is fried. Not the dialogue... NO dialogue works in the quest at all. If I put the same dialogue in a DIFFERENT quest (new or old), it works fine. IF there are no conditions on the dialogue, ALL players display the option. However, if I remove the conditions from ANY dialogue in the quest in question... it will still not appear. No dialogue from the quest works at all. Hence my conclusion. It is something wrong with the quest. Not the dialogue. Are you sure that the other things you said AREN'T related to my problem? Because honestly that is the only explanation I can think of. I also assumed that might be the case but so far I haven't been able to find the records of the old properties in TesVEdit. (I tried looking before I even started this discussion to see if there was something I could delete that didn't belong).

I added a few things between the time it worked and the time it stopped working. I added a few new statues found in other mods; and a cell copied from another mod I created previously. I added a scene similar to the wedding scene (i.e. I used the wedding scene as a model). And I added one function to my quest script (along with several properties). The one odd thing I did is move a script property from one script to another. FYI my script did not change much between the time it was working and when it stopped working. This is the only code I added (along with the properties listed in this code. One of those properties: GameDaysPassed was one I originally created in the quest script that is automatically created for each quest). I then moved it to this script code file. Event OnUpdateGameTime() If Math.Floor(GameDaysPassed.GetValue()) == LocalDay && GetStageDone(60) == 0 && GetStage() < 100 debug.Notification("summoning local residents for rite") SetStage(65) EndIf If Math.Floor(GameDaysPassed.GetValue()) == RiteDay && GetStageDone(60) == 0 && GetStage() < 100 debug.Notification("set up the rite") SetStage(70) EndIf If Math.Floor(GameDaysPassed.GetValue()) == FailDay && GetStageDone(60) == 0 && GetStage() < 100 debug.Notification("fail the rite") SetStage(500) EndIf EndEvent

Hmm... are you asking me to post a sample esp? Or examples of things such as code? The problem is that it is dependent on other mods. For one thing it is a Alternate Start mod. EDIT: nevermind my question. I read it more carefully this time. In order to do what you ask I would need to reproduce my problem in another mod. This mod has several dependencies and some other issues that make it difficult to post here. I would be happy to recreate it in a sample mod. The problem is that I have no idea what to do to reproduce the problem because I don't know what is causing it. My only guess is adding/removing properties and moving them between different scripts (as I suggested earlier).

I use mod organizer but if the SEQ file is moved, it is moved to the override directory which overwrites any other versions. This is where all significantly modified files get moved too. (I leave the mod itself in the override directory all the time since I am always alternating between testing and working on it). This is not the issue. I have never seen the SEQ file get moved when it is rewritten and even if it was... the newer version would override any older versions and it would still be in the same virtual folder as it was before. (Mod organizer uses virtual folders with an established priority to work the way it does. The override folder ALWAYS has the highest priority) I used to check on this but I have stopped because I am used to this behavior. Nevertheless... I checked again this time to make sure. SEQ is still in the mod folder where it was before. The fact that I add the same dialogue to a NEW quest and make a new SEQ file (because I have a new quest) to get it to work is further evidence that this is not the issue.

Thanks for the bit of info. Unfortunately that did not solve the problem for either version of the quest. I used TesVEdit to create a SEQ file in both cases.

PLEASE HELP. I am really getting tired of this problem. This is the second time it has happened and I have no idea why. I am building a rather involved quest. This is the second time I have had to build the quest because the first time, the dialogue just stopped working. (I went back to a save just before the quest started and still had the same problem). New dialogue topics that I added to the quest would not appear even if they have no conditions whatsoever. If I add a new quest with the same dialogue and same (lack of) conditions it works fine. The first time this happened I rebuilt the quest because of this problem. At the time I had not done a whole lot so it was fine. Now the quest is almost done and it stopped working after I added a scene. The only thing I can think of that the first and second situation have in common is the addition and removal of scripts and script properties. So my question is this: what would cause a quest's dialogue to simply stop working at all? To the point that ANY dialogue added without any conditions would not show up? A more specific question is this: One cannot ordinarily remove script properties using the script properties dialogue. If I remove properties from a quest script manually (by removing the code), will that cause something like this to happen? Or other problems?

I am curious if this is possible to do this. Forcing the player to actually lay down and sleep isn't as important as making them do it for a specific amount of game time (possibly longer than 24 hours... depending on circumstances). However I would like to know if both are possible. Basically it is for a quest that adds a "metamorphosis" time component to physical changes that happen to the player.

Thanks for the help/response :)

There is a package data item: use horse if possible. What exactly does "if possible" mean? In other words, what determines if an NPC can "fast travel"? I can think of two ways for an NPC to fast travel (under the right conditions). My question really boils down to one of these: Obviously if the npc has a horse then it is possible. What if they live in a big city with the fast travel service (the man on the horse cart outside the gate). Can they fast travel if one of these exists for the given city?

I am trying to use a players name in a topic prompt for dialogue. However, the alias is not filled until later in the quest since the player selects the person for this alias through earlier dialogue. I am using ForceRefTo in a papyrus fragment to fill the alias. Using the console I have determined that the alias IS being filled correctly. In addition, the person follows me like they should (the alias adds a follow player package). However, the name shows up as [,,,] in the dialog that uses the alias: <Alias=Recruit>. The creation kit says that this means the alias has not been filled; yet the console shows that the correct character reference that I chose is in the correct alias (Recruit). The flag 'stores text' has been enabled on the alias. So this raises the question: can the text only be filled/stored at the beginning of the quest? (i.e. does it only work on pre-filled references?) Or should this be working? If so, what am I missing?

Ok.. I have another related question. I am trying to use a players name in a topic prompt for dialogue. However, the alias is not filled until later in the quest since the player selects the person for this alias through dialogue. I am using ForceRefTo in a papyrus fragment to fill the alias. Using the console I have determined that the alias IS being filled correctly. However, the name shows up as [,,,]. The creation kit says that this means the alias has not been filled; yet the console shows that the correct character reference that I chose is in the correct alias. The flag 'stores text' has been enabled on the alias. So this raises the question: can the text only be filled/stored at the beginning of the quest? (i.e. does it only work on pre-filled references?) Or should this be working?

I am creating a quest that involves recruiting people. So I have two questions. How do I make an NPC abandon their normal routine and walk to another city to meet someone? How do I make an NPC follow the player to meet another NPC? I am assuming it is done through "packages" but the only experience I have with them is to make a "daily/weekly routine" package

Thanks a bunch. That was exactly what I was looking for... geesh my post format was so messed up. Forgot to put numbers... thought I did that. And the title...I couldn't fix that.

I am wondering how this issue might be affecting my playtesting. Since I am trying new things I have been testing my mod as a I build it. I am wondering if this is a practical approach. Here are my questions that would affect the answer: When are quest variables filled? When the mod is first added or when the quest actually starts? Most quests have 0 as the "startup" stage but many do not have anything that happens in this stage. Is this stage automatically set at the beginning of the game? When that happens is the quest started and variables filled? Or does the start of the quest occur when the Start() command is called from papyrus? If I add a quest to a mod and rebuild the SEQ file, will the quest work if I don't do a clean save?

Be aware that my answer to your question is based on the things I have seen. I am by no means an expert on modding this game. (Though I have done some modding of Skyrim and other games) You may want to check out some of the world spaces used in Dragonborn. The landscape in some of those worldspaces are comepletely different from a "land based" location. Also, Govilku's advice may or may not still be helpful. There are several mods that add/change grass and landscape textures. My guess is that simply using a completely transparent texture would work but there are a few issues with doing this that may not be worked around. What exactly these mods do to change or add textures I am not sure. Some or all may just be texture replacement mods. You would have to find out if these mods actually add new textures in addition to the ones that already exist. I believe that some of them do. However, the extent of those changes (don't forget there are several layers to the ground texture) is not known to me. The "space" world space is also constant for the whole game. Getting rid of the planets in the space backdrop would apply to all world spaces. (There are mods that replace these textures so replacing them with a simple space texture is possible. You may not be able to get rid of the sun. You would still have your day night cycle. Again, the only way to avoid this is if the point of your mod is to remove or replace all world spaces in the game. That way you could have a zero length day to get rid of the sun. However, that setting would apply to any place in Tamriel as well. There are a few mods that alter day length but that length exists for the entire world and does not change. I once looked to see if it was possible to script a change in the day/night cycle. If I remember correctly I think I found a few functions that might actually work in doing this. However, I have never tested it.

Good to know. Thanks for that.

I believe I did that a while ago. I haven't had any issues with scripts since. The prerequisite quests are pretty heavily scripted. Also... I removed all scripts from this quest and tested it before giving up so I really don't believe that is the issue here. I am fairly certain it has something to do with some errant setting in the quest. The dialogue itself is exactly the same. Thanks for the input. As I said, the new version of the quest works fine. I will be adding the scripts later today. We will see if that alters anything.

I gave up trying to troubleshoot my problem directly and started working on dialogue for another quest that is parallel to this one if the prerequisite quest fails. I did that so I could start with a raw, unworked on quest and see if I get the same results with the dialogue. Bottom line is that I didn't. The dialogue worked just fine. So I decided to use TesVEdit and delete all the quest and dialogue records for the quest I am having trouble with above and recreated the quest from scratch. All the initial parameters are the same except that I haven't designated what kind of quest the new quest is yet (simply because I didn't do that in the test above so I am reproducing what worked). The only other differences so far are that I haven't used conditions that don't work (in the last quest I added the GetInFaction condition which is known not to work), I haven't added quest aliases yet, and I haven't added script variables yet. So this leaves only three... which ultimately boil down to one conclusion. CK is bugged. Is this an established fact? I really don't think that the other conclusions could be true: that making my quest a "side quest" (like it was before), adding or creating aliases and script properties, would make the dialogue not work. My other quests have all three of these and work fine. So the only conclusion that makes sense is that I did something previously that made it not work and when I changed it, it still behaved like the condition that I undid was not removed. So CK is bugged. When I checked the dialogue record before deleting it, I didn't see any conditions but perhaps it was a bug with some other quest setting that was altered by adding bad conditions. Once I recreate everything the way I need it (adding the aliases and the dialogue script the quest had previously) I will know for sure... but I was just wondering if people were already aware of this possibility. Does this kind of thing just happen? Where the CK just doesn't quite do things right every once in a while? Especially when you undo changes that cause a problem?

When troubleshooting an issue caused by a mod you don't need to recompile the patch file (I am assuming you are talking about a bashed patch). Simply deactivate it while you troubleshoot. Bashed patches fulfill a very specific purpose that isn't really necessary to play the game. (For example... one of its primary purposes is to make sure that all leveled items added by mods can be found as loot inside chests, barrels, etc...). Once you have determined which mod is causing the problem you can then recreate and activate the bashed patch. Finding the mod causing the problem can be a real pain... particularly when you have lots of them. But sometimes it just has to be done. Here is what I do when I troubleshoot which mod causes a crash/problem (and I think it is probably the most effective procedure): EDIT: Before I do anything I search for the issue in Google... sometimes you get lucky. If I don't find a helpful post then I resort to the steps below. Make a save game right next to where the crash/problem occurs. Deactivate the bashed patch Copy ALL mod load order files to a separate folder (I usually create a sub folder with a unique name for this particular troubleshooting session). This copy makes it so that you can restore the entire load order easily when needed. (Always needed after you have found the problem). Deactivate mods in the load order 16 or 32 at a time (I just chose that number because for hexdecimal numbers used in the load order 10 = 16 and 20 = 32.). Load the game and see if it crashes. Repeat until it doesn't. Then add back mods until the problem reappears. You can do this however you want but make sure you do it in a way that isolates the single mod. I usually do the previous step by halving the number I just used in the each procedure. So if I was deactivationg 16 at a time, I would then add back 8 at a time until it stops working. Once it works, remove 4 of them at a time. Then add back 2. Then remove 1 to determine which of the two is causing the issue. Once you have determined which file is causing the problem, exit your load order editor (usally NMM or MO) and copy the load order files you backed up previously back over the current load order files. Reload your load order editor and then remove the file that was causing the problem. Rebuild your bashed patch and activate it. WIth the number of mods you are using, I would HIGHLY recommend Mod Organizer if you don't already. While it would require you to reinstall all your mods, it also makes managing them much more simple. Be aware though that there is a learning curve; especially if you build your own mods.

I am no expert on this topic but I would say it is up to you. I rarely clean mods unless I want to merge them. Unclean mods can cause problems but in my experience it is rare and usually unnoticed. I don't think that mod errors are ever on purpose so I don't think you will run into a problem cleaning them. If you use Mod Organizer you can duplicate the mod and test both. Have a clean version and an unclean version. If you are new to the game and/or don't have a lot of mods I would HIGHLY recommend Mod Organizer. Especially if you plan on installing more mods. It makes working with mods and the issues they can cause so much easier to deal with. Be aware though that if you make your own mods, Mod Organizer is also a big help in the long run but it creates a significant overhead in setting up the tools used to create mods. They sometimes don't work properly until you have done some extra steps.

What would cause this? A few days ago I posted in the "skyrim talk" forum an issue I was having with faction based dialog that has not been resolved. To troubleshoot the issue I have removed ALL conditions from the dialog branch. I made sure the quest was start game enabled and I created an SEQ file using TesVEdit. The dialog still does not appear. I really could use some advice on whether or not I have overlooked something. One thing that might be noteworthy: There IS a script in the PRE box that I assume gets processed before the player responds to the dialogue. I was wondering if this might have anything to do with it. Currently it is commented out. Theoretically, I should be able to see the dialogue option for any player I talk to. However it doesn't show up on anyone. Oddly... all the other quest dialogue I have created works. The only difference is that all other dialogue is limited to a couple of people. In reality, I do want the dialogue to appear on a good number of the Skyrim population so conditions are not an issue at this point. This also brings up a few more questions I have. When do (should) I need to re-create the SEQ file? If I re-create the SEQ file, do I need to unload and reload the mod? Would a save-game in which a quest has already been started affect whether or not the dialogue should appear if the conditions for the dialogue are changed? In other words... would I need to restart the quest (by loading an earlier save-game)?

May be important: One more thing to note: I have a "begin" script in the CK that I assume runs BEFORE the dialogue response is given.

That doesn't seem to be working either. To be clear: the test is run on the person being asked (subject). Do I need to restart the quest after changing it or anything? FYI I used :GetFactionRank (faction) < 0.00 rather than == -1.