Terramaris

In response to post #25007544. #25007814 is also a reply to the same post. Seems to be a great deal of Strawman in your post mate: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman You took a very complex point of view, and boiled it down to "people don't want to pay for stuff".

In response to post #24899589. #24901179, #24901724 are all replies on the same post. My point exactly xD

In response to post #24887504. #24889644 is also a reply to the same post. @DC There already is? Unless you are referring to Workshop.

In response to post #24888079. #24888499, #24888584, #24888714, #24889009, #24889094 are all replies on the same post. Point is, we need everyone to move on. If just one or two people move on, then that is nothing. Community is still tearing itself apart over this fiasco with no end in sight. What is the end goal? What will stop the cycle? The community doesn't win until we put down out pitchforks.

In response to post #24888079. #24888499, #24888584 are all replies on the same post. It ain't flame bait Wight. The community has been badly damaged, and in order to heal we just need to move on. As I said in my post on the other thread, where does this end? If Valve/Bethesda adds paid mods in what will happen? Another boycott. When they remove the paid workshop, the paid modders will boycott like they are doing right now. This doesn't end if we keep bickering about the merits/faults of paywalling. If saying the community will tear itself apart if we keep arguing is controversial enough that it is considered flamebaiting, then this community is already dead and buried. @Cads, we have over 8000 posts on paid mods all together on Nexus alone. Odds are you will be drowned out or what you said has already been said a few thousand posts earlier. As I said, we gain nothing and loose everything if we keep putting fuel on this fire.

>Thread is about moving on. >People are still bickering. When will it end? Are we just in a cycle of arguing?

In response to post #24871519. "Tomorrow is a new day, and New Modders will be born." So it seems we will have to wait about 15 or so years for those New Modders to have the physical maturity to make mods then. Nexus 2030, here we come!

Darn, I had a 500+ word draft on my computer about how to implement a Paetron system into Nexus, and was interviewing modders to get their opinions before I post the thread. Since it is up to Bethesda, I believe I will not be needing to post it anymore. Seems redundant if you already agree with it.

Almost 2000 comments, mods are hidden on here due to anti-anti-paywall boycott, hot files being anti-paywall boycott propaganda instead of good mods... Where does it end? Let us say Paywalls are back on Workshop tomorrow: we will have another boycott, when it is removed the Paywallers will counter boycott. What I am trying to say is when will we heal? Last month we were a tight nit community, capable of some real heart warming things... does anyone remember when we made "Bear - In memory of Taylor" file of the month? That moved me to tears, showed how compassionate we could be. Now look at us, what is our end result going to be? An endless circle of boycotts that ends with us forever torn asunder??? Now I hold blame too, I went from eighty posts last week to about two hundred something just from trying to spread the boycott gospel. I give up though. I am now officially boycotting boycotting, and I urge you lot to do the same. We were divided, but now we need to reconcile. So thats it, I am out and I am hoping others come with. Feel free to neg vote me, ignore this post, whatever. I wont stop ya... I did enough debating last week to last me a life time.

In response to post #24839629. Not at all, anyone who calls you a leacher would be delusional. You done more than most people by getting a premium tag. You are supporting the #1 mod download site for the Elder Scrolls series. If you are a leach, then I definitely am one.

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899, #24829149, #24829774, #24830084, #24830089, #24830244, #24830269, #24830279, #24830434, #24830474, #24830494, #24830544, #24830624, #24830709, #24830784, #24830789, #24830854, #24830894 are all replies on the same post. @Foster One of the problems with paid mods was a precedent it setup: Suppose a company, ElectronicSoft, wants to release day 1 DLC. They know they are going to get flak so instead they get a shell company: Ubigames to release the DLC as a paid "mod". If they get flak, Electronicsoft can just say "Oh no, we are against Day1 DLC, but we fully support modders getting paid for their work". As you can see, this problem is a whole lot larger than modders wanting some cash. This sets a bad precedent and for that reason must be stopped in it's tracks. They can also do this with their DLC, cut out the time and cost running the already poor quality beta testing of DLC and just release it through their shell company as a 3rd Party DLC while reaping all the profits minus Valve's (if they don't decide to cut out the middle man) cut and have none of the accountability. So while this program is allegedly built on good intentions (let us face it, Valve and Bethesda did this as a cash grab), much like the PATRIOT Act, there is a lot of wiggle room to put in less than favourable business practices. ========= So yes, paywalling had to go for the greater good. The gaming industry is exploitative, and will wiggle into everything they can to make a profit. Now this does not mean that we are against modder compensation. One of the problems with this whole fiasco was the strawmen setup by both parties. Now I am not talking about donations, anyone here who believes the status quo worked is being naive at best. A system similar to Patreon, which Youtubers and Minecraft modders have been using would be a well recieved solution. My economics professor gave me a fun quote that I will never forget "Always use the right tool for the job, never use a hammer to put in a screw if there is a screw driver near by". He meant this mostly in marketing by giving the example of using Television to advertise your company in a town of luddites, but the same can be applied here. Paywalling is using a hammer to put in a screw, when there are other tools available.

In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484, #24818104, #24818664, #24818959, #24820849, #24824549, #24826069 are all replies on the same post. @Dragon The goose is dead indeed. Been stalking hot files, and to be honest nothing really new is on there. You have 3 boycott mods and an upload of Purity (which is a combination of files we already had on Nexus). Only 2 new mods as the Serena one and Double Jump. I feel as if the modders have packed up. While I agreed with the boycott, the sheer venom I believe killed what they were defending. Sure, paid mods are gone. It seems free mods though are gone as well... Could just be a slow week and I am over exaggerating too.

In response to post #24784099. #24784289, #24785139, #24810294, #24811099, #24812869, #24813719, #24813764 are all replies on the same post. Posting here so I can save this quote on my profile. Amazingly written.

In response to post #24808369. What part of this is not real?

In response to post #24806924. #24807009, #24807074 are all replies on the same post. @Marstonn I would support paywalls if 5% of the revenue went to mandatory enter key awareness lessons. xD

In response to post #24806349. Even compared to the internet's usual response, the backlash was still severe. Now you support paid mods because, and I quote, "i believe in rewarding people for their effort. ". Would you support alternative ways (not talking about donations) of supporting modders rather than paywalling mods?

In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754 are all replies on the same post. @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders. The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views. Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^ It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept) And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

In response to post #24798804. #24799224, #24799404, #24799519, #24799644, #24799784, #24801389, #24801434, #24801494, #24801679, #24801989, #24802034, #24802614, #24802704, #24802794, #24802849, #24803579, #24803969, #24804034, #24804529, #24804714 are all replies on the same post. Uber, this assumes that the sales would remain constant, or wouldn't decrease greatly (not to mention the controversy helped boost sales). Do not forget that Purity, Arissa, Wet and Cold. They were already made mods with a bit extra tacked on. The opportunity cost for that was low enough so that it was profitable. The maths doesn't lie: Why spent 3 months making a companion mod that will net you $1000 when you can spend 3 months making a dozen swords that would net you $100 each?

In response to post #24801964. #24802149, #24802519, #24802894, #24803109, #24803194, #24803479, #24803744, #24803784, #24803814, #24804154, #24804314, #24804509, #24804619, #24804724, #24805034 are all replies on the same post. "The long and short of your stance is simply that you don't want this opportunity to exist to mod authors." Well it is obvious from my posts that I am pro-boycott, and if anyone was confused by my stance then I apologise for not being clearer. Now your quote feels like it has an implied "... because you don't want to spend money" tacked on at the end, am I correct in the assumption?

In response to post #24800994. #24801184, #24802944, #24803524, #24805704, #24805869 are all replies on the same post. @Chiz What does quantity of mods uploaded have to do with Paetron? Speaking from my experience in the Minecraft Modding community, the modders who have Paetron there do not upload a large quantity of files.

In response to post #24801964. #24802149, #24802519, #24802894, #24803109, #24803194, #24803479, #24803744, #24803784, #24803814 are all replies on the same post. @Dragn Perhaps I misread your post, but it seems you are agreeing with me rather than Axe. Axe doesn't care about the legal ramifications from what I gathered.

In response to post #24798859. #24798999, #24799109, #24799114, #24799789, #24800024, #24800839, #24802019, #24802639, #24802919, #24803084, #24803214, #24803324, #24803634, #24803924, #24804049 are all replies on the same post. Blackasm, you are arguing against a strawman. I already replied to another of your posts showing that the boycott's views goes beyond not wanting to spend money.

In response to post #24798804. #24799224, #24799404, #24799519, #24799644, #24799784, #24801389, #24801434, #24801494, #24801679, #24801989, #24802034, #24802614, #24802704, #24802794, #24802849, #24803579 are all replies on the same post. That 1,470$ is per year by the way. So in order to profit, you need to make $1,570 a year and that is if you are just a 3d modeler. I am not factoring in any other products you need to licence. I went on a tangent some where here on how modding is profitable (with all these conversations on four different forums and threads, I get lost with what I posted) for big projects, so the future of 3rd party DLC is going to be whatever gives the most return on investment when you factor in opportunity cost and the fixed total costs: simple items. Giant mods such as companions, quests, and the such are not profitable in the long run due to fees you have to pay to your team, and that it would take less time and earn you a bigger ROI just to make items. I go on more about this earlier in the thread, point being: Is that the future of 3rd Party DLC that we want? To be honest, if mods are going to be behind a paywall, I would rather them go the route of Insurgency and Team Fortress 2 and the like and get financed by a big company and I buy the mod knowing it will have good quality and will be compatible with the rest of my products.

In response to post #24801964. #24802149, #24802519, #24802894, #24803109, #24803194, #24803479 are all replies on the same post. "Actually, it kind of makes sense. Clarifies your stance. You think you should be able to tell people not to brake a TOS or the law, and you also want to tell them that they cant self-determine by selling mods. No sir, I am not selfish for wanting people to have the option to do whatever the hell they want, the consequences are in their hands, not yours." Let me clarify my stance then: I am in favour of using the right tool for the job in every industry to benefit both producer and consumer. Paywalling is good for some industries, such as the purchasing of physical items, but it doesn't make much sense in mass-consumption digital industries, such as Youtube and modding. The best scenario would be to mimic Youtube's model of buisness. Patreon, Ad Revenue, Sponserships. Each of those cost the consumer nothing but time and optional fiscal transactions. Now you say I should let people self determine. Perhaps it is my LEO background, but I am not going to someone self-determine themselves into breaking a law.

In response to post #24800994. #24801184, #24802944 are all replies on the same post. Blackasm, not everyone on the boycott wants to turn modders to, as you put it, street preformers. We just do not agree paywalling the best way to go about it. Youtubers are able to make money without me having to pay any money besides my internet connection, so paywalls are not the only option. Why hammer in a screw, if you have a screw driver? Use the right tool for each situation.