itsbuffy

It's an unbrowsable mess once you begin to get a few perks. Anyone can tell me which mod does this ? pls tell me it isnt Skyui... Mods list: https://s9.postimg.org/sz38vfai5/434.png

ty @stebo114 Ive installed RotE and OBIS just a question if youre still around. is the OBIS extra loot too good? because sometimes more enemies makes the game easier because of this. for example better vampire has a vampire hunter option but i set it off because their loot is simply too good.

by the end maybe but i was level 40 and id say i completed about 15-20% of the game. All I did was the thief guild questline entirely plus some random optional quests here and there. I complain about this because to me it is boring. i know its not the most popular view i dont expect everyone to share it to me early game its mostly archers and animals later its vampires and mages if your level 40 and only completed 15% of game then you are power gaming HARD. If you play normally theres no way you will be level 40 and only 15% complete. If you power game then you cant complain about being OP as people like to say. If by power gaming you mean using my money the most optimal way, making sure I level everything to gain levels quicker and fast as possible, doing certain quest that I know result with great rewards etc yes. if you mean i somehow abuse some glitch or exploit a leveling loophole then no i dont do that. I've thousands of hours into the game, obviously I'm very experienced. ''powergaming'' comes naturally. Also you level quicker on legendary since your need to hit the enemies a lot before they die I dont do anything that would be considered as cheating if this was a competition somehow but I do everything to be as optimal and as strong as possible. If the game can't keep up on its max difficulty, it's the game's fault, not mine

by the end maybe but i was level 40 and id say i completed about 15-20% of the game. All I did was the thief guild questline entirely plus some random optional quests here and there. I complain about this because to me it is boring. i know its not the most popular view i dont expect everyone to share it to me early game its mostly archers and animals later its vampires and mages

Any mods that could fix this game difficulty ? I'm playing skyre on legendary and once im past through the struggle of the first 15-20 levels, the game get much easier. I usually become 'godly' at around level 40. The problem with this game is its fundamentally broken as far as game balance is concerned. Skyre does a great job trying to delay the inevitable where you become a god but it's still not enough. - stamina is still a joke because of all the super good stamina regen perks - you become too rich once high priced armor and weapons become standard findings and once you're rich enough to buy tons of alchemy ingredient and sell the potion at very high prices - some spells are clearly broken such as fear/fury/fast healing/push and tons of other. enemy scaling simply cant compete with those hard cc and superheals - some skyre perks are too good. If anyone has a tutorial on how to modify them a little Id be happy to do that. - some unique weapons in this game are simply broken-good - quest end up giving too much money (>1000gold etc) - Enemy AI isnt the greatest Do you guys know any mods who are compatible with skyre who could fix some of this? No enemy mass-spawn mods pls thx!

youre lagging without any mods?

Alright thx. I'll do those I'll remove immersive AI before ETAC. I play without fast travel, ETAC is kind of essential. Unless youre telling me it's conflicting with several others but you seem to suggest that immersive AI is the most potentially problematic one. I'll check out the stability guide and dl the textures and delete frostfall as a last resort. Thx I removed the immersive AI and download crash fix. My game seem to be fixed now ! thx a lot @ymf331 checking your list made me realized that I forgot to install realistic room rental. I guess ill sleep for 10gold lol. But youre right our list is very very similar damn I only play legendary too even with skyre. Only level that keeps me on my toe. Still I always end up too rich too quick for my likings especially when NPC begin to drop expensive gears and when ive enough money to buy a tons of alchemy ingredients. Alchemy is a great way to make tons of $. I wish the game had a mechanic against this maybe inflation or something

Alright thx. I'll do those I'll remove immersive AI before ETAC. I play without fast travel, ETAC is kind of essential. Unless youre telling me it's conflicting with several others but you seem to suggest that immersive AI is the most potentially problematic one. I'll check out the stability guide and dl the textures and delete frostfall as a last resort. Thx

I've watch half the video and overall it really looks like it some kind of try and error type of thing. I'm not sure if its much shorter than just manually removing mods and testing. But still ill have at least a good idea of which mods *could* be problematic so that was helpful. I'll still watch the other half I've had a working game before with those serana mods and everything was fine. mod authors confirmed it was fine too. Anyway those ctd occurs at any time especially at loadup regardless of serana As for perkus the thing is skyre change the stamina system, the economy, the blocking, the damage and tons of other things that arent related to perks. It makes everything better and much harder. Those changes are very important for a veteran player such as myself. Perma perk are prob better but i lose everything else. I would probably run all over everything even on legendary.

Hello im pretty desesperate honestly. im having CTD at an unplayable rate (when the game doesnt crash on loading). Even new games are super unstable. Can you tell me what could be wrong with my game ? Yes ive used loot, reproccer and fnis. I use Mod organizer. I use Unofficial skyrim patch instead of the legendary one because reproccer is a shitshow with the legendary version. The ENB is the very conservative performance one and I've checked it's not the memory limit. I run mostly at 50-60fps my computer can handle it. Mods: https://s9.postimg.org/sz38vfai5/434.png I won't get rid of skyre or better vampire. Everything else im willing to let it go if necessary. Thanks a lot

In response to post #24563524. oh yes, fallout 4 modding is gonna be a shitfest.

I feel like skyrim is way too old to be asking to pay for mods. Maybe if it was 2012 that would've worked to an extent, but I feel like now it's just gonna kill skyrim. I've played skyrim for 1800hours total and there's simply no way I would pay for my mods unless the mod is a DLC sized mods with new armor/weapon/locations/stories/npc/voice acted etc. There's no way I would pay each mod individually to get a decent IU, decents sounds, fixes, overhauls, retextures, armors/weapon sets, interesting followers etc for a 4 years old games on which ive 1800 hours on. There's also no way I would be playing skyrim without these because skyrim sucks without mods. I would end up uninstalling skyrim and I dunno... play ESO and act like it's immersive and interesting maybe?

I always had that issue as a vampire hunter. I mean letting her live is one thing. She seem friendly and so you might argue that your char would let her live. she's also attractive and is willing to lead you to a vampire lair so I guess it's fine I can deal with that. But letting her get away with the elder scroll is a completly other matter. No way any Vampire hunters would let a vampire get away alive with an elder scroll because ''it's hers'' especially when it would be super easy to take it away.

Hello, Ive an issue where Serana is completly invincible and untargetable. If you swing an axe aiming her it's gonna pass through her like air. Bandit also seem to be unable to damage her in any way. Serana still can talk and bandit aknowledge her presence still. I removed serana from my party, waited 24 hours and then uninstalled every serana related mod that I have (serana dialogue edit, marriable serana, seductress serana, serana no hood and sneaky serana) and shes still in that... state I tried also disable/enable with console and it's not working at all. I'm out of ideas there. I can load an older save but this problem always end up happening again/often to the point where it becomes almost unplayable. Anyone can help me ? Ive ~300 mods but im 90% sure ive no mods that changes followers behavior or anything follower related. If you think the list would be useful I can provide it any ideas ?

i did it and it's still bugging :s I've noticed it worse when it's an npc in a bed (~50% of the time roughly)

I uninstalled 40 BloodthirstVampireFeeding.esp and it's still happening

Hello, As my title says, very often (roughly 30-50% of the time), once my character tries to bite somebody, it becomes stuck and can't move anymore at all. I tried waiting, don't work. The game also say something like ''you can't fast travel at this time'' when I tried to. It doesn't matter if the NPC is in a bed or not. Do you know which mod causes it ? Is there any console commands that could get me out of this ? It's not as good as solving the issue but it would already be much better. Here's the load order : 00 Skyrim.esm01 Update.esm02 Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp [Version 2.0.0a]03 Dawnguard.esm04 Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp [Version 2.0.3]05 HearthFires.esm06 Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp [Version 2.0.6]07 Dragonborn.esm08 Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp [Version 2.0.0]09 Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm0A ApachiiHair.esm0B SexLab.esm [Version 1.59b]0C ClimatesOfTamriel.esm0D BeeingFemale.esm [Version 1.14]0E hdtHighHeel.esm0F Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm10 TravellersOfSkyrim.esm11 SPIKE.esm12 HighResTexturePack01.esp13 HighResTexturePack02.esp14 HighResTexturePack03.esp15 Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp [Version 1.1.5]16 ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp17 Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp18 Bathing in Skyrim - Main.esp19 When Vampires Attack.esp [Version 1.1.1]1A iActivate.esp1B BHWarPaints.esp1C Auto Unequip Ammo.esp1D SGEyebrows.esp1E GamEngagementrings.esp1F RaceMenuPlugin.esp20 KJ Tattoos 4K.esp21 Seductress Serana.esp22 AMatterOfTime.esp [Version 2.00]23 HentaiNightmareArmor.esp24 Hoop Earrings.esp25 comvex-hmpriestess.esp26 EnhancedLightsandFX.esp27 ELFX - Exteriors.esp28 dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp29 LeftHandRings - Dawnguard.esp [Version 1.4]2A HentaiVoidArmor.esp2B Brows.esp2C ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp2D Eyes of Aber.esp2E Nouserhere Ears.esp2F AzarHairPonyTail 03 - Havok.esp30 Character Creation Overhaul.esp31 CCO - Diverse Races And Genders.esp32 CCO - Dynamic Skill Progression.esp33 VioLens.esp34 CoT-WeatherPatch.esp35 CoT-WeatherPatch_DB.esp36 360WalkandRunPlus-RunBackwardSpeedAdjust.esp37 dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp38 dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp39 dD-No Spinning Death Animation.esp3A CoT-WeatherPatch_NL3.esp3B DeadlyDragons.esp3C LeftHandRings.esp [Version 1.4]3D Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp3E ELFX - Dragonborn.esp3F mslVampiricThirst.esp40 BloodthirstVampireFeeding.esp41 ELFX - Dawnguard.esp42 Order My Items.esp43 HARODATH_ImmersiveSoulgems.esp44 DSAMG - Miraak Music Fixes.esp45 Immersive NPC in the dark.esp46 iHUD.esp47 Imperial Preset.esp48 Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp49 Neithteam Warpaint.esp4A TravellersOfSkyrim - Vanilla.esp4B Katarina.esp4C HelmetToggle2.02b.esp4D Kaw's Claws.esp4E vampire eyes playable.esp4F keeperpossiblefix.esp50 wgwarpaints1p1.esp51 LingerieSetCBBE3_2ByNausicaa.esp52 LootandDegradation.esp53 Merta Assassin Tattoos.esp54 NonEssentialChildren.esp55 TheEyesOfBeauty.esp [Version 9]56 numenume Hair.esp57 RaceMenu.esp58 RealisticRoomRental-Basic.esp59 Remodeled Armor - Underwear.esp5A Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp5B Serana No Hood.esp5C SkyRe_Main.esp5D SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp5E Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp5F Wintermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim.esp60 yy_PotionsLockpicks_Legendary_ELFX.esp61 3DNPC.esp [Version 3.06.9]62 RealisticWaterTwo.esp63 DawnofSkyrim-AllMajorCities.esp64 Sotteta Necromancer Outfit.esp65 ELFXEnhancer.esp66 CinematicFireFX.esp67 BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp68 JinhuaCat Retextures.esp69 Merta Assassin Armor.esp6A ZoyaFollower.esp6B HN66_NAILS4ALL.esp6C Armored Skeleton.esp [Version v3.1]6D SkyRe_EnemyScaling_Fix.esp6E Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp6F ElderOutfit.esp70 NobleWeddingDressByUrshi.esp71 SkyRe_Survivalism.esp72 SkyRe_Main_Fix.esp73 Facelight.esp74 SkyRe_EncounterZones.esp75 RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp76 SFO - Dragonborn.esp77 Cloaks.esp78 TheChoiceIsYours.esp79 Queen of the damned-Akasha Dress.esp7A fallentreebridges.esp7B Point The Way.esp [Version 1.0.2]7C SMIM-Merged-NoDragonborn.esp7D Signs_of_Skyrim.esp7E Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp7F RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp80 Bathing in Skyrim - Water for Realistic Water Two (Legendary).esp81 Bathing in Skyrim - Water for Realistic Water Two (Vanilla).esp82 RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp83 RND_USKP-Patch.esp84 RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp85 SkyRe_HelmlessPerks.esp86 SkyUI.esp87 DVA - Dynamic Vampire Appearance.esp88 Sneaky_Serana.esp89 SeranaDialogEdit.esp8A Chesko_Frostfall.esp8B RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp8C SkyRe_Races.esp8D Shadow of Death Scythe.esp8E Gwelda Armor Pack.esp8F Vidala'sDress.esp90 DonMichHeels.esp91 FNISspells.esp92 Mehrune's Razor Remodeled.esp93 Seraphim Set.esp94 SkyRe_EnemyAI.esp95 BLESSINGS - Altar Descriptions.esp96 The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp [Version 1.2.6]97 Extended Encounters.esp98 SexLab Romance.esp99 Qasmoke.esp9A Amiella Outfit.esp9B JinhuaCat Outfit.esp9C LadyKdCirclets.esp9D Osare GothicLolita.esp9E SkyRe_Races_Fix.esp9F Silence Adrianne Avenicci.espA0 SkyRe_Combat.espA1 Marriable Serana.esp [Version 1.6.2]A2 Earrings Set1.espA3 Marriable Serana HF.esp [Version 1.6.2]A4 Kate.espA5 Sweet&Sexy Lingerie.espA6 Darklilith.espA7 StarExpandedJewelry.espA8 Supreme Storms - Cot Version.espA9 CoT-WeatherPatch_SupStorms.espAA _zzCCCHairs.espAB Tembtra Thief Armor.espAC TERAArmors.espAD TheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.espAE LustmordVampireArmor.espAF UnreadBooksGlow.esp [Version 2.2.0]B0 Thieves Guild Requirements.espB1 yurica_magedress.espB2 Bashed Patch, 0.espB3 ReProccer.esp

Actually I said that I didnt know how to move skyrim out of the program files without potentially ruining everything and then you told me that I don't need to do that if UAC is off. I didn't say my UAC was on. My UAC was already off (I rechecked and it's off). I didnt know I could do a bash patch with UAC off and that's why I never tried to do one. Glad to know that I can do a bash patch when UAC is off, I'll attempt to do that tomorrow morning.

Thanks a lot for your help ! I really appreciate. I'm pretty sure ive already the last SKSE. See screenshot If for X reason you think I should reinstall it I can do that. I changed my papyrus settings. they're now exactly like yours. I've uninstalled Stable uGridsToLoad since you told me it was useless with the last SKSE. I don't know if just changing papyrus can solve my issue ? Probably not I suppose but what do I know :P As for the rest, I don't know why you think I've MO installed but I do not :(. Maybe because of the screenshots ? Maybe the font is the same as LOOT ? Those SS were taken from LOOT not MO. I've nexus mod manager. I'm aware of MO existence though and I'm also aware that it's better but I don't feel like the extra perks it offers are actually worth the time I will need to spend to master it. I already spent countless hours on modding/fixing. Unless you're telling me that not having MO is the reason why I'm freezing, I would like to avoid it. Sorry maybe I shouldve said I was running NMM For some reason, we can see reproccer at the bottom of the load order even though I don't have Reproccer installed according to NMM at least (there's an X next to the mod) but it's still appears. I've no idea why. I didnt installed it/used it because the last time I did ran a patch, my save crashed. If I need to fix armor or weapon stats, I do it manually to my likings in TES5Edit. I don't do any major changes, just very simple things like changing damage or changing something from clothing to light armor. I never did a bashed patch. It requires skyrim to not be in program files i think and mine is and ive no idea how to move it from there with disrupting everything :/ I guess I should look up for guides. Thanks again for the help !

its at defaut 5

I tried the script cleaner and I went longer without freezing but that could easily have been luck. ive an i5-4570 CPU @ 3,20 3.20GHz 8192 MB RAM I've an AMD Radeon R9 200 series 4095MB Ive a desktop Yes I did some change with the papyrus. Here's my papyrus : [Papyrus] fUpdateBudgetMS=2.0 fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.2 fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0 iMinMemoryPageSize=128 iMaxMemoryPageSize=512 iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=76800 bEnableLogging=1 bEnableTrace=1 bLoadDebugInformation=1 bEnableProfiling=1 My SKSE is up to date and my video card drivers too. Complete load order : Note that essential children and paarthurnax dilemma don't appear twice in my load order I just screenshoted them twice to make sure I dont miss any mods. Oh and also Im using the performance version of ENB not the full version And thanks a lot for the help

Hey So like the title says, my game is freezing (not CTD, it just completly freeze) at quite an annoying rate. I'm not exactly sure what kind of information you guys need to help me out. What I can say is the load order has been sorted with LOOT and my game has 0 dirty plugins in it. I'm not 100% sure but i think the freezings occurs only in outside areas. I've 157 mods total. I'll name mods that directly affect outside areas (This isnt the order in which they're loaded) RealVision END 262a Ducks and Swans for skyrim Extended encounters Travellers of skyrim Immersive patrols Lanterns of skyrim Skyrim performance PLUS - pine needles FX Skyrim performance PLUS - rainfall FX Skyrim performance PLUS - snowfall FX Enhanced Light and FX + dawnguard/dragon patch + SMIM Meshes Climate of tamriel + dawnguard/dragon patch + Weather patch Supreme storms Skyrim Flora Overhaul Static Mesh improvement Cinemate Fire Effects Betheda Hi-res Vanilla + DLC Optimized Stable uGridsToLoad All unofficial patches My last papyrus log : Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:01PM] warning: (8900748C): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 7 on (8900748C)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:01PM] warning: (FF0011D7): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 15 on (FF0011D7)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:02PM] warning: (FF0011D7): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 15 on (FF0011D7)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:02PM] warning: (8900748C): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 7 on (8900748C)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:03PM] warning: (8900748C): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 7 on (8900748C)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:04PM] warning: (8900748C): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 7 on (8900748C)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:05PM] warning: (8900748C): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 7 on (8900748C)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:06PM] warning: (8900748C): Ref is in an unloaded cell, so it cannot cast spells..stack:[ (2601F222)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[Active effect 7 on (8900748C)].zbloodnpcbleed.OnHit() - "zBloodNPCbleed.psc" Line ?[09/07/2014 - 02:05:08PM] RNPC: Periodic update check.[09/07/2014 - 02:05:14PM] Error: Object reference has no 3Dstack:[ (000A7EA9)].Sound.Play() - "<native>" Line ?[ (000B78EE)].HelgenRandomSoundScript.OnUpdate() - "HelgenRandomSoundScript.psc" Line 117[09/07/2014 - 02:05:30PM] VM is freezing...[09/07/2014 - 02:05:30PM] VM is frozen[09/07/2014 - 02:05:31PM] Saving game...[09/07/2014 - 02:05:31PM] VM is thawing...[09/07/2014 - 02:05:39PM] RNPC: Periodic update check.[09/07/2014 - 02:05:45PM] Error: Object reference has no 3Dstack:[ (000A7EA9)].Sound.Play() - "<native>" Line ?[ (000B78EE)].HelgenRandomSoundScript.OnUpdate() - "HelgenRandomSoundScript.psc" Line 117[09/07/2014 - 02:06:05PM] Error: Object reference has no 3Dstack:[ (000A7EA9)].Sound.Play() - "<native>" Line ?[ (000B78EE)].HelgenRandomSoundScript.OnUpdate() - "HelgenRandomSoundScript.psc" Line 107[09/07/2014 - 02:06:07PM] warning: Property xxxsneakTouchOfCalamity on script xxxMagicSneak attached to Active effect 2 on (89007497) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[09/07/2014 - 02:06:07PM] warning: Property xxxsneaktouchofcalamitysneakmessage on script xxxMagicSneak attached to Active effect 2 on (89007497) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[09/07/2014 - 02:06:07PM] warning: Property xxxsneakArcaneAssassin on script xxxMagicSneak attached to Active effect 2 on (89007497) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property[09/07/2014 - 02:06:10PM] RNPC: Periodic update check.[09/07/2014 - 02:06:35PM] Error: Object reference has no 3Dstack:[ (000A7EA9)].Sound.Play() - "<native>" Line ?[ (000B78EE)].HelgenRandomSoundScript.OnUpdate() - "HelgenRandomSoundScript.psc" Line 117[09/07/2014 - 02:06:40PM] RNPC: Periodic update check.[09/07/2014 - 02:07:25PM] Error: (720B85A9): Spell is permanent (e.g. an ability/addiction/disease) and cannot be Cast..stack:[ (720B85A9)].SPELL.Cast() - "<native>" Line ?[None].SIC_ReviveMe.OnUpdate() - "SIC_ReviveMe.psc" Line 22[09/07/2014 - 02:07:34PM] Error: Object reference has no 3Dstack: If you need more informations please ask thx a lot

A big thank you Frankly skyrim without mods is a terrible game, garbage tier. Only the story/lore is good but every other aspect is really terrible. Because of you guys, this game can reach god tier and can be the best rpg of all time for everyone. I know bethesda owns the game in theory but in my heart it's the community who owns it. Thank you for those >1300 hours or fun and still counting

For some reason I cant upload more than 1 picture per post... Sorry Edit : i just can upload them... my bad for the 2 posts in a row.

Hey, I've been trying to fix this for hours now and I just don't see whats wrong. Skyre always CTD at some point in volkihar ruins. Not at a precise point but always in this area. I know skyre is the problem because I get no CTD when it's not installed. Reproccer or the unofficial patch don't help. So Im guessing that skyre is in conflict with one of my mods. I've ran LOOT too obviously. Anyone know which mod could cause it ? Im willing to sacrifice any mod for skyre's sake. This is not the load order.I just reinstalled skyrim and installed mods in this order (still have like 50mods not reinstalled yet...). I know I should have installed skyre first but I didn't know skyre was the issue at that moment. Load order has been dealt with with LOOT anyway.