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I'd say you could... I think a lot of people will keep playing pre-update Fallout 4/version of F4SE... It'll be a long time before I update, personally. I will switch back and forth. So many mods won't get updated except the most popular. Up to you I guess. There will be a rift between pre-update and post-update mods regardless, sadly.

Multiplayer online/live service are fair enough yeah, that's why I'm very cautious of them now. It's to be expected. Nerfs this, nerfs that. Removing content, etc. But, for example, I used to play Conan Exiles which is an open world, survival game that you can play solo... It's marketed as a single player game too. Lots of mods. Good fun. But the problem is that they eventually introduced a battle pass and changed a lot of stuff (also introduced a terrible stutter) to the point where if the game was in that state before I purchased it, I wouldn't have purchased it, know what I mean? It is indeed, horrible. I remember a time when developers couldn't force an update on you, when you could resell your games, lend them to a friend and you pretty much owned them (unless they're gonna break down your door and take back the disc lol) - like with physical media/DVD ROM. So then maybe the problem is just with digital gaming/streaming where you don't actually own the games - just the licence to play them - and the developers can do as they please, even though you paid e.g. £60 for it (and usually buying something means that it's now yours - you own it - an exchange of goods), turning the product into something entirely different or breaking it somehow or adding in things that you're against like battle passes, MTXs, etc. Like, Fallout 4 didn't always have the Creation Club, did it? Now I'm forced to see that eyesore every time I launch the game that reminds me of just how much things have changed for the worse over the last decade.

Yeah, I heard a lot of good things about GOG leading up to this update - being able to choose different versions and install offline/have local copies? No DRM?? Sounds awesome. I got really worked up about this update for a variety of reasons, including the fact that the only reason Bethesda and their games are even (still) relevant are because of modders and I think trying to force us to take this update shows just how little they care. Steam is also to blame though by allowing developers to update or change their games willy-nilly as they please. It's so wrong. I'm thinking I'll be moving back to physical media, personally. Just like the good, ol' days.

Someone made a patcher for Fallout 3 when that was updated last time so perhaps someone will do the same for Fallout 4. Modders.

I think the disk write error happens if you or Steam tries to update after setting the Fallout 4 appmanifest to read only. Using Mod Organizer then launching with F4SE is how I'm able to play but same as you, Fallout 4 (in my library on Steam) says Update Required but I didn't risk testing to see what happens if I click update! Not a big deal for me. Just hide the game and launch through MO/F4SE from now on and all your mods will be working - everything fine and dandy.

So how difficult will it be to play older mods if and when those of us who dodged the update decide to finally bite the bullet and update, maybe some years from now? Umm, I'm guessing a lot of mods won't get updated so there will be a rift between the not updated mods and the updated mods but moreso any mods that release post-update, like Fallout London... I'm guessing it will just be a matter of switching between different versions of F4SE? And using older mod uploads that are compatible with whichever version you're using... Or maybe just having two copies of Fallout 4 (one updated and one not) would be easier? (e.g. One on Steam and one on GOG). If there were a mod(s) that you really wanted to play but which required the latest version of F4SE. For example, I have not updated my Fallout 4 so for now I'm safe and should be able to enjoy any pre-update mods, even those that are buried and hard to find... Those mods that may never be updated (providing the old uploads are still archived here or elsewhere..) Those mods that are compatible with the current version of F4SE. But any post-update mods like, Fallout: London, would need to be used with the newest version of F4SE (whenever that releases) -- so it would just be a case of switching between old F4SE and new F4SE or owning two copies, one updated and one not. Is that right? I'm hoping it will be that simple. I'd hate to miss out since I'm still squeezing many hours from FO3/NV and haven't even scraped the surface of Fallout 4 mods and so many mods are affected by this update. Help put my mind to rest.

Hmm, you could try deactivating the "culprit" mod(s) (a lingerie outfit mod is it? :thumbsup: ), start new game, save, exit and then reactivate mod(s) - that might fix it. Sorry I can't be of more use. My knowledge is quite limited. :happy:

Not really a request but I thought I'd put it here anyways. ~ 0:00 - 1:18 wouldn't it be cool if this were to play during the Prydwen scene? That is when she enters the Commonwealth :wink:

All of this is just my opinion of course. But, I played it for nearly 2 years and all I have to say is that it's basically just another MMO with an Elder Scrolls skin. It lacks that certain oomph that a solo Elder Scrolls game has... That oomph is what makes the Elder Scrolls series so great. It could just be the modding... The level of detail... The seclusion... Whatever it may be, ESO just doesn't have it and never will. Obviously, if you like MMOs... You will like ESO, naturally. Although, I'm sure there are better developed ones out there! If you simply love the Elder Scrolls... Well, you probably won't after playing this garbage... It's the 100% downgrade that gets me... It's so bad. I'll give credit where credit is due though... The main story was pretty good but everything else was just simply meh. It will leave a bad taste in your mouth if you're any kind of TES fan. In the end it was probably ZOS's shady business tactics that made me quit, personally. For example; everything is now and for the foreseeable future going to be in the Crown $tore. Now, I understand they have to make their money somehow but is it really necessary to have absolutely EVERYTHING behind a paywall? No, I don't think so. And there have been a few sneakier moves such as insanely low drop rates designed only to keep you playing....People call this "RNG"... I call it shady. But, maybe that's just part of the MMO package. Whatever, I would rather give my money to people who actually care about their games and the lore as opposed to those who only care about money which clearly Zenimax are of the latter... EDIT: To quickly answer your other two questions: the game is very time consuming but most of that is spent looking for groups or doing nothing at all really... Loading screen, infinite loading screens, error 202, 212, 333, 666, blah blah, lag, etc. I'm not even joking. And you basically decide for yourself how long it takes to get good armor because you craft your own sets which is one of the few good things in the game. So if you work at it non stop then it wouldn't take long... On the other hand, there are still pieces that you have to work for. That is if you want to rub shoulders with the elite but they aren't really necessary. See... MMOs are all about numbers so depending on who you ask that +1 damage resistance is definitely worth it. And well if you want to look like a complete and utter muppet wearing "the severed heads of your foes" then have fun grinding your life away to get it. And that's about all I have to say. Everything else in this post should give you a clear answer to your first question... Is it worth the buy? Well, if you can work out the answer to my question below you will find the answer. A question for you: would you trust a craftsman to build you a house knowing his only concern was for money and profit? Interpret that as you will, I bid thee farewell. :thumbsup: Answer (a wall of text):

See screenshot* Hopefully, this doesn't need much of an explanation... As you can see it's something to do with the lighting (I think). Or, maybe a mod or something is messed up? Whenever a female NPC wearing this armor (and sometimes other armors although, I haven't noticed it as much with others) approaches a light source such as a camp fire or torch, the armor flashes -- as if light can't decide whether it's coming or going sorta? Basically, it's like there's something up with the light sources (the armor is changing slightly to reflect the light/darkness of where the NPC is as it'd be in real life) but it's too obvious -- this is the best I can explain it at the moment. I'm using the type 3 body mod, armor replacer, etc, and have tried downloading these files again a few times just in case something didn't install properly the first time. I'm only assuming that it has something to do with these mods because it only happens with female armor from what I can tell (the raider badlands armor being the most noticeable as you can clearly see in the screenshot above). It's a minor problem really... But, it does break immersion. Any suggestions? Also, I thought that instead of creating a new post and that just while I'm here, I may as well ask what the hell is this? :tongue: See screenshot below I've put up with it for a long while but I'm just curious... Is it fixable? It appeared first in Megaton (mostly when using the Pipboy light at night) but I eliminated that by uninstalling a mod called "DCMoods". Just wondering... It's also pretty annoying. However, I understand how old this game is and like the flickering textures of graffiti and certain destroyed houses out in the wastes, the only option might be to ignore it? No harm in asking though. Again, I think this might be something to do with the lighting. Any assistance you guys can provide is greatly appreciated. My load order:

Nothing like this will happen until the G.E.C.K., unfortunately. At least I don't think. But, it will definitely happen! No doubt about it... Enclave Commander is well endorsed where Fallout 3/New Vegas is concerned, so It would be crazy not to have a Fallout 4 version. Especially, with all these new animations like for the synth teleportation and BoS vertibirds. Therefore, I second this! :) But, I wouldn't play for reals until maybe two years down the line. That's how long we'll have to wait for the likes of this and EVE, etc. My guess, anyway.

Yeah, I've gotten over it now... It's up to Bethesda what they do with the series. And a game's a game...

If story is the main focus here then it would definitely have to be Fallout/The Elder Scrolls. They're both #1 on my list and tick all the right boxes. But, there's only one game out there that got it 110% on the story. And when I say 110% I'm only saying that because it made me cry like a baby. And I rarely cry... What I'm talking about is The Walking Dead series. Such emotion! And that was just season one. :happy: Oh, and I can't leave the almighty universe of Mass Effect out. It has to be among my top ten games. It had a lot of emotion, the story was beyond epic and it really opened my eyes as to what humanity could achieve if it stopped fighting itself. But, hey ho. I could elaborate on these but it's early in the morning and I have things to do.

+1 considering the number of people who are constantly available to voice act... kinda yes, kinda no. honestly the first mod i hope someone makes is one that removes all the PC dialog. i dont want my character to talk in the Fallout game franchise, i'd play Mass Effect instead. though that's a personal thing and in no way means i think what voice acting i have seen so far is bad. You have to join the future sometime. Were you feel the same way when things switched over from sprite based games to 3d rendered games? Talking protagonists aren't "the future." ME has a talking protagonist because it's a much more controlled experience. Beth has traditionally given us games (TES and FO3) that allow us to do/be/etc whatever we want. Voicing the protagonist seriously inhibits that playstyle. If one doesn't value that playstyle because one prefers ME then that player probably sees adding a voice to the protagonist as an improvement. For those of us that have always enjoyed Beth's unique game offering, and the freedom it offers to the player, then adding the voice is the end of an era of choice and control. +1

hire? you realize just about every voice actor who has contributed to a mods creation hasnt been paid right? it's all volunteer work for the most part. either way this topic has been discussed quite extensively here: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2989934-f4-mod-question-difficult-with-main-character-now-talking/ Thanks for the link. I posted there (I resurrected the post although it wasn't that long since someone last posted). Now, I should probably delete this post but it took me an hour to write up so I don't want to. I'll just go to bed now and hope some wizard makes it disappear. :laugh:

You know this would be the ideal situation. At least give the player some options. Surely they must have known in the beginning how many fans would become upset over this (well, it doesn't seem we're in the majority though, if I'm honest) but still they went ahead and gave us a voiced PC. It's a massive change and it's something new - it could work and it'll be fairly interesting to see how it does but really, the option to toggle voiced PC on/off would be the best way. Honestly, that's probably the only thing that bothers me personally. Everything else looks to be pure gold. :smile: Especially the building of your very own settlement(s).

Hello Feel free to ignore the wall of text. I'm just wondering what are your guy's thoughts on modding Fallout 4? How easy is it going to be? For example, quest mods... With a voiced protagonist and a dialogue system which revolves around a voiced player character, I think it'll be pretty awkward when it comes to quest mods. I know there might be one or two really large projects with multiple voice actors but those smaller mods with only 20 endorsements or so/made by people who can't afford to hire professionals, etc. are quite frankly, some of the best ones out there, in my opinion of course. Although, I do have an idea on how to combat this... Why not grab the bull by it's horns and strip Fallout 4 of it's voiced player character/completely revamp the dialogue so that it's similar to how it was in every other Fallout to date? A lot of effort, yes. It'd take time (years?) as you'd probably have to manually type up all the dialogue into a dialogue window. But, it's doable. Because if someone did this for the community, then the people who prefer a 'muted' PC or in other words, the traditional dialogue system can be satisfied and also people like me who could use it in combination with a mod that doesn't have voice acting - it'd make a lot of people happy. I doubt I'm the first person to think of this and I know somewhere out there is a hardcore Fallout fan who loves every Fallout (even the Originals) who'll ensure Fallout 4 is modded into Oblivion so that it suits their fairly acquired tastes. Removing the forced voiced dialogue, in my opinion, would be paramount to modding Fallout 4/overhauling it to be more like previous Fallouts. Of course, if that doesn't happen... Quest mods are going to be difficult to work with/gonna take a lot more effort to design. So, that's just one thing right there and by far the most obvious. Honestly, this is probably the only thing I'm worried about when it comes to Fallout 4 and modding (which is a massive part of the experience) but that won't stop me from enjoying it. Anyways, your thoughts? Feel free to discuss, share your opinions, etcetera.

Thanks for your opinions, guys. I'll have to give it a bit more thought. As for security... Well, let's just say I'm always a little paranoid so I'm not too worried about that. Anything in my room with a camera/lens is covered up... I'm more worried that there's something inside the TV screen watching me. I'm not even joking. :mellow:

That's what I was thinking... I was looking pretty forward to having the old Windows start button back though but guess I'll just wait a while like yourself. Of course I could contribute and help find those nasty bugs but unfortunately, I have a huge backlog of games which I'm currently at war with so I'll let some other guy sort it out. :dance:

I really like the new look but there's one thing that's bugging me. Because Windows 10 is so new; games, mods, programs, etc. might not (at least at the moment) be compatible with it. I'd hate to install Windows 10 and find that I can't run Fallout 3 or other games that I love because a patch or workaround hasn't been released. Many people have reported that Fallout 3 only works seamlessly on Windows Vista/Windows 7 but isn't compatible with anything higher however, I play the game perfectly and I run on Windows 8.1. I'm just wondering if it'd be wise to leave it for a few months so that the guys at Microsoft or even some of you guys can iron out the creases aka. any bugs or incompatibilities it may have with older games/software. Let me know what you think... If it's worth the risk or not really atm.

SPOILER! Well, at least I don't have to waste my time killing them then if the fort is missing its Shadowbanish wine. I'll just continue onto Chorrol. :sleep:

Oh, trust me. . . I know that one. When I'm testing mods out or just messing about I sometimes have to use it on guards. But, I would feel a sore loser if I had to use it in my main. . . It would feel like I was just surrendering or giving up and taking the easy way out. I like the feeling that I'm not yet an all-powerful hero-god. In real life though or if I was actually there, I'd probably hire a mercenary or two to help me. Or, simply ask for help. I like Striker's suggestion though. . . The conjurer's could be "persuaded" to temporarily assist me in order to defeat a mutual enemy and then once our business had concluded, we would then part ways. If you know what I mean. :blush:

Why thank you kindly. I'll have to write all that down. I always turn out to be a conjurer myself anyway so later on, I shouldn't need too much help. Just some crazy woman wants Shadow banish wine and I thought, well there's a fort. I'll see if it contains anything. I'm playing with Frans too so I'm thinking that's why they're a little tougher to kill. And that 7ft or 8ft tall Nord woman. Geewhiz. She's tough. Thanks again. :laugh: