Snowden and the NSA

[Hardwaremaster]

What I am most curious about with this story is what the process is like to bring the private companies on board. None of this would be possible without access to the communications companies that the monitoring is being done via. I figure that there are two possible ways that this access can be achieved: either with the cooperation of the private company or covertly by inserting an agent as an employee. I would guess that the majority is done through cooperation because it is more reliable than using an agent who could be fired at any time, thus ending the connection.

 

So the next question is why do the companies cooperate? It could be because the NSA asked really nicely, but I imagine that there must be some greater incentive. They could offer money, or some sort of protection or immunity promise. Given the nature of the NSA it would probably be easy to dig up some dirt on any of these companies and leverage it against them. It could be a high-ranking official at the company who practices some sort of social deviance i.e. drug use, adultery, pedophilia, etc. Or it could be a questionable business practice, like money laundering or sheltering. In either case the NSA could offer a deal: Allow us to plug this dongle into your system and we will not let our friends at the FBI know about what you are doing.

 

Whatever the reason for the cooperation I fault the companies that are participating more than I do the NSA. With any government bureaucracy it is nearly impossible to narrow the blame for any given policy or action down to a single person or small group. This program was not the brainchild of a single person or administration. It is the cumulative result of many years worth of policies and programs that could probably be traced all the way back to WWII. WIth a private company, however, it is easy to find the right person or people to blame. They sit in the boardroom, or at the heads of the departments involved.

 

I think throwing our rage at the NSA is a big waste of time. They do not concern themselves with public opinion of what they do. The private companies, however, are extremely concerned with the public's opinion of them. If people let it be known that they do not approve of their information being passed wholesale to the NSA it would possibly be more effective at slowing it down and in bringing light to the situation.

Hmmm. All good points. Communication companys have to be on board this at some level. They way i figure it is compartmentalization: meaning you don't know anymore than you have to, to do your job. For instance the Chashier dosen't know what the Store Manager knows, and the Store manager doesn't know what the Region Executive knows. And you keep climbing till you reach the CEO and Chairmen. Who actually runs the hole operation because their responsible for wage setting, company direction, stock, bonds, etc. So their probability the ones who behind helping various government agencys. Now the real question is why. Well, money maybe involved, or like you said blackmail. But this could also be a reason, an article from Newsbuster.org the links at the bottem.

 

---------------------------------------

Note: Watch the video, it does shed some light on various things that have been going on.

Edit: I'll keep all links at the bottem of my posts to avoid further clutter.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/05/11/fox-abc-and-cbs-news-presidents-have-siblings-working-white-house-tie

Edited June 12, 2013 by Hardwaremaster

[Hardwaremaster]

Okay. I've been examining this entire affair lately and I've been jumping through links like a acrobat. Well I think I found something that is related to all this. Now, i don't know quite what to make of this, and I also don't know what you guys think of Connan O'Brien. But with out further delay, check out this video.

 

Edit: Well, apperantly all news gets it's... um... news from Associated Press.

Does anyone know who owns Associated Press?

-----------------------------------

P.S I have no idea were i'm going with any of this.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Hardwaremaster

[Lisnpuppy]

No one owns them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press

[JimboUK]

Kim Dotcom of Megaupload fame has had his say, I'm no fan of the bloke but I can't disagree with anything he says...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/13/prism-utah-data-center-surveillance

[sukeban]

Lots of interesting points being made.

 

@Nintii

 

That is saddening, as I always thought that the non-Anglophone countries bought into the whole "national security state" hype less than USA/UK/etc. but alas it appears that belief was unfounded. I do, however, wonder what the policies of the Scandinavian countries are on this subject?

 

@Jim

 

I was just reading some interesting breakdowns of the Congressional votes on "national security" issues versus partisanship. Turned out, as you say, that partisan ID was indeed NOT the variable that corresponded best with predicting a given vote, that it was a given politician's status as either a party "outsider" or "insider" that ended up being far more predictive. In many--but not all--cases this also meant that said politician was located at either the comparatively far right or far left of their respective parties, but it was highly interesting in the sense that it added an alternative axis to the traditional left/right dichotomy. Though the phenomenon of "outsider" or "insurgent" candidates is nothing new to American politics, it does demonstrate a potentially fruitful avenue of attack for grass roots candidates to attack incumbents in primaries.

 

@Roaches

 

Watching the PR damage control by Google and Facebook has been pretty amusing. They released identical statements using loophole-laden phrasing to essentially say "They didn't have direct access to our servers" and "We didn't know the name of the program," both of which are entirely irrelevant to the actual charges being leveled against them. I'd agree that it's easier to hold private companies accountable, as they always have that bottom line to consider, than it is a shadowy "state within a state" like the NSA.

 

As for how they are compelled to cooperate, I'd imagine there's a fair deal of money involved, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were more insidious methods at work as well. I'd also think their cooperation buys them a bit of leeway with Congress in terms of regulations and such, which is just another means of savings them money. Like, I think the prospect of expecting more stringent privacy laws from Congress is pretty non-existent given that they rely on the absence of these laws to create the raw material that is then supplied to the NSA.

[Hardwaremaster]

Well, after a day of digging it seems Associated Press has a strange relation with various news corperations. Now according to Wikipedia it says its a non-profit organisation that has no direct owner. If thats the case then how is it getting a revenue of 627.6 million, its operating income is 34.2 million. Which if I'm understanding this correctly means it only costs that much to keep running, which also means its making a profit, now i read a article on the web that says it doesn't do donations. If thats the case how is it still running, especially considering it has to pay it's employees somehow. Unless it's a volunteer system, but i can't find anything that says it is.

 

Another interesting situation is that it has no owner, which doesn't make sense for an operation of it's size. CNN, ABC, FOX, BBC, and more get their news from Associated Press. Which means at some level their has to be a leader of some sort. I was talking to some people who said all corperations non-profit or otherwise, have to have registry, bonds, stocks, and various other things that make it an actual company.

 

The other thing I know a guy who does console gaming: understands tech, business, corperations, pretty well from what i gather. And we got to talking about the Xbox One debacle, which inevitablely lead to talking about the Connect Sensor. He said that Microsoft has stated you can turn it off like anyother device, but heres the rub it takes a voice command to turn it back on. Which means that it's actually "on" eventhough it's "off". Then finnally he pointed me to an article on the web, be warned it's a weird website, and I'm not sure how much of its BS. However i try to keep on open mind regarding these matters. However take it with a grain of salt, the guy who wrote it claims to he used to be a government employee.

 

He told me to try to find who owns Associated Press, I told him about the Wikiarticle, he says its BS: "like running a government without a King." I don't know if this is what he was refering to, but it appears that Associated Press, does indead have a CEO and a Board of Directors. If you click on their names it gives some background into their connections, education, history, etc. And if i had a resume like some of these men I dare say I could land any job I please.

 

I'll ask around see what people say about what the capabilities regarding to modern technology. I'll update this post if i find anything else out. It makes sense to me, however, I'm not gullible the Internet is usally full of trash. But i also can't deny this situation is borderline werid. With regards to the Intelcore V Pro: i need someone who's Techsavy to verify if what the article says is legit or complete rubbish.

 

------------Assciated-Press-Articles-------------

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/board.asp?privcapId=1249808

---------------The-Wierd-Website----------------

http://jimstonefreelance.com/corevpro.html

http://jimstonefreelance.com/nsaedward.html

--------------------Backdoors----------------------

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/nsa_backdoor_windows.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY

-------------------Corperations----------------------------

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceupbin/2011/10/22/the-147-companies-that-control-everything/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nestl%C3%A9_brands

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Edit: Okay I was just fowarded this Hyperlink about back doors.

Edit: It's on Wikipedia as well.

Edit: Found something else thats interesting

I'm beginning to wonder how many things are vasslized so to speak.

 

Edit: So let me try to sum this up, we have on record, the CEO of CNN has siblings or a sibling, in the Whitehouse as do many other news outlets covering for each other. We have a backdoor in Windows 98, that even the head programmer of the project didn't know about. We have Associated Press which on Wikipedia says no one owns, even though it has a CEO and Board of Directors which are also known as Chairmen. Meaning they hold most of the stocks effectivly making them the investors, meaning they effectively own it. And i read online that Reuters bought Associated Press, back in the eightteen hundred and it hasn't switched hands since, can't find a solid article though. And until someone can confirm or deny the Intelcore problem this does not look good.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Hardwaremaster

[SilverDNA]

@ Nintii
Well done laying that open that's was indeed necessary to mention that we are already in the thick middle of this.
and to all other interested in a bit more information about the German Staastrojaner click on the spoiler

And since you are quite able to read German, you might also try to find out where the BKA has stored the mined data of the Staatstrojan .. Put that on your Question list. To my knowledge (last checked in Sep. 2012) there German government crossed once more the Rubycon where they stored the mined data. Hint: primary the data base of the mined date is not stored on a server within the EU, but it is accessible from the EU. Click on the spoiler to get that question answered if you not already have that information.

 

The servers are in the US. :wallbash:

It makes it impossible to bring down this monster with EU laws and German laws and worst it is automatic accessible by the US Government via patriot act.
To my personal dismay, if I would be in the data base, that I would be once more 2nd class US citizen without the same privileges of a 1st class US citizen.
Side Notice: IF the US would be also interested in enforcing their legal standards and laws for the protection of MY personal rights in my country from the head to the ground, with the same cunning and deceitfulness, I would only be half as :verymad: as I'm now.

Additional here link the aditonal Link on the advanced version of the German Staatstrojan you missed to post from the CCC

I endorse the links on the bottom of the page also for further reading.

Chaos Computer Club analyzes new German government spyware on the CCC Page

BTW It is by the CCC assumed that the Israeli trojan if far more advanced (three to five generations of programming ahead maybe even more) than the German Staatstrojan version, but only very view reliable informations have come up to this till now.

On the case of Edward Snowden I stumbled upon this petition today
"Stand with Edward Snowden" on AVaaz.org
witch seams to climb steady upwards

The reasons why I'm against it are very similar to the German Staatstrojan. Now I throw out my questions like good old Platon... You may answer them on your own (in silence or open). I have my mind up already on those.

 

They Mine every data 1st. with brings up the case of what happens as an example if Julian Assange is contacting his lawyer via email or phone? Think about it for a moment....
Is it allowed by the laws of your country to spy upon the the correspondence between client and lawyer? What would be if someone accused a country like the US before court and uses email or any Phone to correspondence with his/her lawyer?

 

It puts every non US citizen under general suspicion. Do your Country have before Court the general rule "in dubio pro reo" (in doubt for the accused)? Is "in doubt for the accused" also granted for Non US citizens before a US court? If a country that uses such methods would be a person that does this to you would you call that person paranoid and abusive of your rights?

 

Is somebody who works in a country for the government that claims to be in its basic ground frame democratic working not 1st for the citizens of that country and 2nd for the government or the other way around?

 

How is whistle-blowing by law ruled out in your country?

 

Is there a difference between other cases of whistle blowing form the last past years ? Are there peoples life directly endangered, because of what Mr. Snowden revealed?)

 

Has Mr. Snowden betrayed the citizens of the US or only a Government that tries to turn a way from democratic based ground principles to totalitarian ground principles with arguments that could be rated thin?

 

Isn't it know to the most advanced terrorists that they mostly communicate in codes, when using phones and emails or other methods of codes to communicate with one another on expert level? Why not find the most possible subjects that could use such a code and view their correspondence and phones and their contacts as well? Why all others in the world as well?

 

Is this already a Witch-hunt where nobody isn't free from being guilty (even the governments and their officials)?

 

What purpose does it serve in primary based democratic nations to take down ground principles of democratic state norms and has this happened in history before to people that where politically accused or hunted, because of some attributes that where politically ruled to be noteworthy as a part of a country?

 

If it happens to everyone outside the US, then when will it happen to the US citizens too, or is this already happening?

 

Will this cases now open before us be handled like Winston Churchill once stated out: "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." ?

 

Rousseau and Montesquieu formulated very well some of the ground principles of a democratic nation. Is this basis still intact or do people damage those principles by declaring all principles of democracy are nigh? Who and how does they profit from such and in what is the profit exactly? To what aims this will lead me in questioning?

 

What answers will I get from a Government or a leader when asking those question? What to expect on answers ..Will they be straight or dogging around by diverting it in some way? Are their arguments valid or are those only sham arguments? When does a state that mocks the laws and protections of the citizens? When and What is a country where every law and right suggests that every citizen is 2nd class citizen only and every member in possession of a government office or and rich or company suggests that they are 1st class citizen?

Questions you additional have and are way too polarizing to ask originate from now on....

 

Yes they are a bit unsorted but sometimes after answering a question I like to step back and watch the frame or the whole picture just to get a broader view.
Now this is quite a lot questions I have.... answered to myself.
I would like to offer those questions to the responsible government officials just to see, how they doge bullets form the only weapon I legally own... My own mind.

 

That all of my 2 cents that might be helpful to sort this out.

[Nintii]

A different angle though not necessarily acceptable one ...

 

We are all too familiar with terroristic acts of violence, revolutions, wars etc., that are happening in the world at the moment, and these are widely publicised on the daily news via the printed media, radio, television, and the web ... yet beyond what is "commonly" broadcast is the massive "Cyber War" that is raging all around us.

This "war" is not really something which has captured our attention ... if I were to ask you to name any ten (10) "conflicts" that are taking place or had recently taken place, I'm almost certain that NOT ONE OF THEM YOU WOULD MENTION WOULD BE A CYBER CONFLICT.

 

Right ?

 

Did you know that Iran has the fourth largest "cyber army" in the world ?

 

And here for your reading pleasure ..... http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9107141074

 

The constant attacks against Western interests from even afar afield as China are a constant fact of life.

 

Now, I've said all of this not to excuse ANY governments (legal/illegal) activities against both it's own citizens or those foreign but at least this opens up a whole new front, a broader vista if you will, of the kind of unseen conflict that is taking place and the measures which are being employed to try and counter act "the enemy".

Perhaps now our understanding (though not necessarily acceptance) of such programs used by the NSA like PRISM and the German "Staatstrojaner" make a bit more sense.

 

 

Let's face it, "the weapons of our warfare are not carnal", war has evolved, we no longer smash each other in the face with a rock, mace or spear ... with the invention of firearms we moved to another level ...

"And behold they looked upon their guns, bombs and tanks and said, "Cor blimey, now I can kill that dingaling from over here".

 

And so on and so forth until the nuclear age ... where all we had to do was press the big red button and say "kiss my cannoli" from the warm comfort of our secure concrete bunker and watch our enemies lights go out.

Every leap in technology saw the battlefield and it's weapons change.

 

Today, thank heavens we've moved away from the big red button ... and we now mainly fight on the new evolutionary battlefield a type of conflict that is largely fought behind that which we can see ... major Political and Economic wars rage out there ... I no longer have to send my older brother to beat you up with his baseball bat or have him shoot you, I can do it with my computer.

Welcome to the new wars.

And welcome to the new ways we fight those wars ... um sorry if I tread upon your rights and freedoms, I uh, will try not to get caught doing it again ... that I promise you.

[TRoaches]

Did you know that Iran has the fourth largest "cyber army" in the world ?

The linked article is from the Fars News Agency, which is a dubious source if there ever was one. That is the same state-affiliated news agency that once cited a quote from an Onion article to support the notion that the majority of Americans would rather vote for Ahmadinejad than Obama for US president. I would also take issue with the "largest" claim. Largest in what way? The largest staff? Perhaps, but when talking about about a cyber army having the largest staff does not necessarily indicate an advantage. If anything I would imagine that press statement was meant to soothe fears among the Iranian after the Stuxnet incident. The article sources the claim to a retired IDF colonel named Gabi Siboni. I also take any scary claim made about Iran by an IDF affiliated source with some healthy doubt.

 

That is not to say that cyber war is not something that the military should be worried about. I just don't buy it as a valid reason for our communications companies to help big brother in his data mining project. The US military is most likely the world's leading authority on computer security, given that they have been locking up computer systems longer than just about anybody. Even when there is a story in the news about China successfully hacking a US system and stealing something precious I have my doubts about the truth of it. The military probably sets up honeypots for situations like that, and lets them take what they want them to take.

 

It is also worth considering that the military loves redundancy in their systems. If a cyber attack were successful it would likely be only a moderate success, and the damage would quickly be repaired or bypassed. Their whole communications system was built to withstand nuclear strikes at key locations, so any failure at any point can be bypassed.

[JimboUK]

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits

 

Well this is more than a little embarrassing.