Make this huge project in FO4's engine or in another game engine?

[YouDoNotKnowMyName]

Good evening everybody!

 

I am currently thinking about starting a new "long term project", something that I will keep working on for the next few years / decades ...
(a new big worldspace mod, most likely just for personal use)

 

But the problem is this:

It would be based on a real world location.

The "playable area" would be HUGE, like 75 km on the X axis and 50 km on the Y axis (if you make a rectangle around it).

Most of the map will be forest, but there will be some "interesting locations" (towns, other stuff ...).

 

 

So, now the question is this:

Should I try to somehow "split it up" in lots and lots of "Fallout 4 sized worldspaces" (that means invisible walls and loadscreens in the middle of the forest!).

Or should I try to do this in something like UnrealEngine (which does support "large" worldspaces like this, from what I heard).

 

Reasons to do this in FO4's CreationEngine:

• I am already pretty comfortable with it
• I have a feel for what can and can't be done
• I know the workflow for getting custom assets into the CK (and I already have all the tools for it set up and know how to size the meshes so they "snap seamlessly" in the CK and things like that)
• Lots of useful assets are already there ("vanilla FO4 stuff")
• Lots of mods! (new weapons especially!) so less things that I would have to implement myself
• The settlement build system
• I am afraid that if I learn how to do things in anohter engine, I might not come back to working on FO4 stuff (with all of its limitations and undocumented and hardcoded stuff)

Reasons to not do this in FO4's engine:

• Worldspace size limitation
• No native support for vehicles (kind of important for such a big worldspace ...)
• Lack of documentation for some of the more advanced functionality of the CK / the engine (which I probably won't need, but you never know ...)

 

The points for doing this in FO4 clearly outnumber the points that speak against it, but still, I am not sure ...

I don't want to start to put lots of time and work into this and then after a few months (or years) say "screw this, this will not work" and end up having wasted all that time and effort.

 

Any advice would be appreciated ...

[RoNin1971]

If its just for yourself, you might be better of sticking to the Creation Engine and use all the assets and tools you have at your disposal. Saves a lifetime developing.

 

Then again, I hate to say it but UE4 will do a better job. Besides UE5 is due this year and comes with truckloads of assets and tutorials. (well, 4 at least)

In 10 years the Creation Engine used for FO4 will be nothing but a bad memory. UE5 will (probably) still be used widely and you can distribute/sell your game instead of a mod to an ancient game.

[YouDoNotKnowMyName]

If its just for yourself ...

Why does that "just for personal use" always imply a lesser standard of "quality"?

For me it is the opposite: If I would release a mod I would put less "detail" into it (to keep things "performance friendly"), for a "personal project" I am doing lots of "detail" (clutter, ...) because I don't care if it takes one or a few minutes for an interior cell to load and if the FPS is "only" 30 ...

[madmongo]

 

Why does that "just for personal use" always imply a lesser standard of "quality"?

 

 

I can't speak for RoNin1971, but I did not take their comment as implying a lesser standard of quality. All they said was that if you use FO4 you get a lot of assets and tools that are already developed and available.

 

That said., having made large-scale mods, I can tell you from practical experience that one person working alone cannot possibly even hope to compete with a game studio. I have no idea what your skill level is, but most people can't even come close to creating professional quality 3d models and animations, and if you do have those skills, it's still going to be an awful lot of work.

 

I have never touched UE4 so I have no idea what its capabilities are. From what I have seen, it contains the 3d engine (of course) and physics, but doesn't include things like a quest system or a dialog system. If you want to do more than just drive around in your huge worldspace and shoot stuff then you might need to implement these things on your own.

 

I can also tell you from practical experience modding FNV and Skyrim that a mod this size will take a huge amount of time even if you do implement it in FO4.

 

Of course, if you do choose to use UE4, while you will have to do a lot more work, you'll end up with a lot more control over things.

 

I don't want to dissuade you from anything, since either path (FO4 or UE4/5) sounds fun and interesting. Just keep in mind the scale of work that you are setting yourself up for. When a game studio goes to create something this large, they dedicate a couple of dozen people to the project for several years of development.

 

Have fun, and good luck, whichever way you end up going with it!

 

My advice, since you are already familiar with the FO4 creation kit, is to try to make a small worldspace mod in FO4 to get a feel for how long that would take, then multiply that out by how much larger your world is going to be, and then do the same in UE4, just to get a feel for what the game engine can and can't do and to also get an idea of how long your overall project is going to take.

[YouDoNotKnowMyName]

Ok, thanks for that reply!

 

Yes, I am already working on a custom worldspace mod (about the size of the vanilla FO4 worldspace, since that is the size limit).

I have been working on that for a few months now and it is nowhere close to beeing finished ...

 

I just like to switch between different projects so that I don't get "burned out" ...

 

And I have some ideas that just won't work in the "setting" of that worldspace, so I am thinking about starting a new project to implement those ideas ...

 

 

And no, I don't even think about "competing with an acutal game studio" :laugh:

I just do this to get the ideas that are inside of my head into "something".

And "modding" (especially creating new custom worldspace stuff) is a perfect mix between doing things like 3d modelling and things like writing and worldbuilding ...

It's like bringing the stuff inside of my head to life ...

Edited July 21, 2021 by YouDoNotKnowMyName

[South8028]

Well, itâs impossible to compare with ue4, and now with ue5. You can only compare bethesda games and ue's theoretical indie capabilities. Naturally, ue is much more technologically advanced, more accessible, has much more advanced tools, and most importantly, ue has the largest knowledge base of all engines. Obviously, just collecting huge worlds, making models and animating in ue is much easier than in a closed, limited commercial use of ce. The value is directly fo4, where there is a ready-made base of morphs with super-detailed character creation, a system of workshops, megamassiv of meaningless dialogues. But just ce, without fo4, is in no way a competitor to ue4, ue5.

[YouDoNotKnowMyName]

Well, I think I will stick to FO4 and "smaller projects" (that might actually get finished!)

 

Would be nice to have a game engine that had the "nice things" from the creation engine AND the capabilities (and documentation) from something like UE ...

[RoNin1971]

 

If its just for yourself ...

Why does that "just for personal use" always imply a lesser standard of "quality"?

For me it is the opposite: If I would release a mod I would put less "detail" into it (to keep things "performance friendly"), for a "personal project" I am doing lots of "detail" (clutter, ...) because I don't care if it takes one or a few minutes for an interior cell to load and if the FPS is "only" 30 ...

 

A lesser standard is not what I wanted to imply. A lot less work (as you have a ton of assets and game mechanics ready made) and nobody else's wishes (and complaints) to keep in mind, is what I meant.

...and if you ever wish to share the result, a 'stand alone' game will do better as a mod to an old game (its already old, but in 10 years its ancient and not on par with whatever is the standard by then)

 

10 years isn't even exaggerated. I know of 1 indie who's been working on his own game for 9 years (including the engine though) and still far from finished. (a former game developer who made enough money to quit, and spend all his time on a game he always wanted to create)

 

Its impossible for 1 guy to create a game like FO4, from the ground up using 'a' engine. There's not enough years for that in 1 lifetime.

[pepperman35]

I think as human beings we need a sense of accomplishment, thus smaller mods serve to give us that as they are generally manageable. From a project management view point, a larger project can be subdivided into pieces which can be defined. When a major milestone is reached, a sense of accomplishment is achieved. When it comes to mods or project task/goals/milestones, the mnemonic acronym S.M.A.R.T. can be used to benefit the endeavor. I also think it is important to define what you what/need from the endeavor (e.g., the learning experience, the end product, bragging rights, etc.) I spent a lot of time doing my Spectacle Island mod. It was challenging, frustrating, and fun along the way. I haven't ventured up the nerve to try doing a worldspace yet, although the idea appeals to me. At any rate, you obviously enjoy modding so enjoy the ride. Good luck with your endeavors whether they be big or small.

Edited July 22, 2021 by pepperman35

[DiodeLadder]

Hello there,

 

The game you are planning on making (3750 km2) is bigger than Assassin's Creed Odyssey (130 Km2).

 

 

Games are rarely made in real life scales. You probably are thinking about a real life area size as a reference for your goal, but you may want to think about scaling it down to make it work as a game.