Super fast travel Hyperloop transport system

[Vagrant0]

Elon Musk lifts lid on hyperloop.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/update-1-california-billionaire-lifts-lid-on-hyperloop-futuristic-transport/article13717584/

 

more news, its open source, anyone willing to take up the task. He's willing to give millions to ever wants to.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/12/hyperloop-alpha-elon-musk_n_3745505.html?ir=Canada#

Not really saying anything that hasn't already been said.

 

But, without a copy of that design document on hand there are a number of significant concerns here.

 

First off, noise. Yes. Noise. According to the designs, each pod would essentially have what amounts to a jet engine that would suck in air and use it to lift the pod. Given the fact that each pod would likely weigh around 3-5 tons (200lbs per person (body weight and cargo), times 28 people, plus the idea of transporting cars), that means a very large amount of air pressure being forced beneath the pod. However, since the tube itself is a low pressure environment, you would need a hell of an electric engine to maintain that air pressure, at any speed, and air ducts along the length of the pod which can not only withstand that pressure, but also regulate it while supplying the cabin with breathable air. All of this, within an enclosed space would be absolutely deafening for any passengers due to the wind speeds which would be necessary in producing.

 

Second, lift. Anything which is subject to aerodynamics needs to account for lift and drag in its designs in order to remain stable during operation. Even in a low pressure environment lift can have a significant effect on stability and would require a wide variety of control surfaces along the length of the pod to adjust this as the craft accelerates. Unfortunately, in order for these surfaces to work, you would need to have even more space between the wall of the tube and the pod, thereby decreasing the magnetic influence of propulsion coils or greatly increasing the needed power demands (as magnetic fields have exponential falloff). Although air jets around the pod might be an option, it ends up going back to the first problem.

 

Third, energy. The final nail in the coffin here. To propel even a small mass with magnetic force over a long distance requires a huge amount of energy. Even if that energy is provided by solar panels (making that system only viable on a clear, sunny day), you would likely need to have the entire length of the route covered with panels a few dozen meters wide just to power a single tube with current solar technology. Now while that's all and good... You might be missing the big thing here... If we were able to build that many solar panels along a single length, our own power problems, as they currently exist, would be entirely moot. A single 10 mile stretch of fixed solar panels could currently power most small cities. A continuous chain of actuated solar panels just along the projected 360 mile or so path between LA and San Francisco would be able to power most of the entire west coast, and could be easily built without too much extra infrastructure. Even if operational power demands could be managed, having a system based on solar energy just doesn't work once you leave California. The weather is too unstable in many parts of the world, and once you start dealing with northern locations, you have relatively few days of the year which actually have any decent sunlight (nevermind the 3-5 months of darkness around the arctic circle). Without a cheap, efficient, and reliable source of energy, this is idea is simply dead in the water.

[Thor.]

I like ET3 idea better, seems like Elon musks concept design is sort of flawed, i still don't know why they haven't just allowed Et3 to fund the project with Elon musk backing it.

 

unless it really is just a pipe dream, if they really want it done, just help the person who thought up the idea first, unless he's out of the game.

Well cbc didn't hide this one, usually big breakthroughs the cbc usually pretends it didn't exist lol, not this time. If the cbc reports it its legit. :thumbsup:

 

its a rare occasion

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/08/12/technology-hyperloop-travel-elon-musk.html

 

looks like my hypothesis might be correct when the oil industry may want to use this tech to transfer oil and people from Hamilton to Keystone.

ET3 had a youtube interview explaining just how influential this technology is, if the oil industry wants it, its a go.

 

Edited August 13, 2013 by Thor.

[Marxist ßastard]

But, without a copy of that design document on hand there are a number of significant concerns here.

http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf

[HeyYou]

Low pressure tube, cars held off track by blast of air from skis..... Why does that seem counter-productive? Only 800 MPH though, so, hard vacuum isn't required.

[Vagrant0]

 

But, without a copy of that design document on hand there are a number of significant concerns here.

http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf

 

Does answer some of the concerns. But still retains the same energy and infastructure ones. Namely the fact that if it were practical to have a network of continuous solar panels for that length, we would probably already have it.

 

That said, having looked over the document, it should be noted that what is described here is a 10 year plan for just routes near the LA San Francisco area. Meaning that this really isn't going to solve any problems in the near future, regardless who is backing it, and would be several more years before it could be expanded into a larger network. Given that there seem to be a number of groups with competing designs, there are bound to be numerous incompatibilities even if the proof of concept works as well as likely requiring alterations and retrofitting as the design and implementation changes over time. Unlike with rails or roadways however, any significant change in design would probably require drastic changes to any existing routes due to the very tight operational tolerances and ultimately render the projected 100 year lifecycle moot. These changes would undoubtedly become necessary over time as each line has a designed maximum capacity due to the speed and safety requirements of the system.

[bben46]

While I would like to see this proposal become a reality - I don't believe it will because of politics. The competing high speed rail already approved has run into political snags that make me doubt it will ever be complete - even with the huge amounts of money the government will throw at it. The already proposed 'high speed' rail is actually far slower than the bullet trains now in use in many other countries. Cities and towns along the route are already demanding to be included, meaning this will become just another local commuter that stops at every town changing it from the proposed 5 hour train ride to more like an 8 to 10 hour trip. Meaning it will not be able to compete with the airlines and will be relegated to commuter use. Much of the money supposedly for the project has already been preempted for improvements to existing commuter train service instead of the 'high speed' that taxpayers thought they were getting.

 

Musks proposal calls for no intermediate stops on the initial build, allowing the pods to maintain their speed for most of the trip. ( I will believe 30 minutes when I see it though) Little expenditure for right of way, far less environmental impact and no use of external energy sources (it will be self powered using solar cells) So it would be much cheaper to build than the not so 'high speed' rail. But I would be interested in what maintenance problems (and costs) would be incurred over time.

 

While Musk's proposal does not cover all of the engineering problems, it at least shows that his engineers ( Spacex and Tesla) are aware of them and believe they can be solved. And he has asked for outside input on them. They have been working on this for several years, and many of the nay sayers have barely even seen the proposal and are dismissing it based on preconceived notions or how they think it works based on less than ONE DAY of casual research. :pinch:

[HeyYou]

His costs are artificially low, as he proposes to build it along the right-of-way for a freeway that already exists. Now, I would point out that the freeway ISN'T straight, there are over/under passes that will have to be dealt with, and the state may not be willing to sacrifice that area in any event. His plan is interesting, but, not exactly what I would consider realistic, or workable.

[Thor.]

If its a piping system, bridges is all he needs. That effect would be cool if there was windows into the pipe to see that fast travel at work. Above ground piping does not have to worry about highway.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Thor.

[Vagrant0]

If its a piping system, bridges is all he needs. That effect would be cool if there was windows into the pipe to see that fast travel at work. Above ground piping does not have to worry about highway.

Not quite. Existing roadways are only designed around the weight of existing road vehicles. Any new structures, especially those weighing several tons, would mean additional load stresses both in operation and emergency situations (earthquakes).

[Thor.]

It wouldn't be built on top of existing structures, the pipes will be stand alone meaning they would be structured independently. Something like a monorail system along side a road.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Thor.