Is Democracy on the Decline?

[colourwheel]

@Troaches

 

I apologize for the cheap shot comment but as I am typing this post Ted Cruz is doing a "fake" filibuster to shut down the government and killing the economy over "Obamacare". Ted Cruz probably has never even looked over the Law let alone understands the Affordable Healthcare Act when within his "fake" filibuster tonight he has claimed the law to be over 2000 pages long when the actual Law is only about 1000 pages long (974 pages to be exact)... Odd to be completely off by over a thousand pages when this is a person who is a person who should have the experience and knowledge required to understand the true implications of the "Law" when being a person soooo "strongly" against it....

 

How our Democratic nation ends up with such a person being elected into office who ends up doing such an idiotic thing as a "fake" filibuster over a topic he seems very ignorant about is beyond me.... Might I add what he's doing has no legislative consequences either. Meaning what he is doing is beyond pointless on the house floor...

 

I would not blame Ted Cruz for being Ted Cruz though, I blame the people who elected him into office...

 

Just imagine if we had a better educated and informed electorate we would probably not end up with people like Ted Cruz in office. A person who feels the need to read "green eggs and ham" as if it was even a relevant thing that applies to "Obamacare" doing a "fake" filibuster...

 

 

 

I would hope that well over a majority of nation is offended by this "fake" filibuster especially when comparisons are made to those who support healthcare for the nation as nazi appeasers and supporters of king george the 3rd.... I personally got lost after the same false fear theme about death panels I've heard from the conservative media over the years.... Those who get a kick out of watching elected official make a fool of them selves are welcome to watch C-Span tonight... Get out the popcorn and soda, It's a long and meaningless speeches but has its moments of laughter....

 

This is just Democracy at a moronic level....

Edited September 25, 2013 by colourwheel

[TRoaches]

FYI just a few hours ago you were involved in a multi-page "no u" slapfight with spz2 re: mutual accusations of religious zealotry.

My accusation towards spz2 was not of religious zealotry, but that his hatred of religious zealotry had transformed him into the opposite type of zealot: the modern equivalent "intellectual" zealotry, which is really only pseudo-intellectual at best, and which I would define as the invocation of science in a completely non-scientific way i.e. the description of scientific theories such as those describing evolution and geological history as "fact" when they are, in fact, theoretical in the purest sense of the word. It is this modern zealotry, this attitude that we should believe in certain universal truths without question simply because our betters have told us to believe in them, that is destroying democracy. I refer you back to the quote that I posted earlier about the way that people have "out-sheeped the sheep".

 

@colourwheel: Cruz's statement about the number of pages of law required to print out the policy known as "Obamacare" is debatably accurate, and perhaps even generously low. The ACA is between 900-1000 pages (depending on formatting and what is included), but if one includes the totality of the relevant government regulations that one could be referring to when they say "Obamacare" (as opposed to referencing the ACA specifically) then that number can jump to around 40k pages.

 

Regarding his "fake" filibuster, you recently hailed another politician as a "hero" for doing the same thing.

[colourwheel]

 

@colourwheel: Cruz's statement about the number of pages of law required to print out the policy known as "Obamacare" is debatably accurate, and perhaps even generously low. The ACA is between 900-1000 pages (depending on formatting and what is included), but if one includes the totality of the relevant government regulations that one could be referring to when they say "Obamacare" (as opposed to referencing the ACA specifically) then that number can jump to around 40k pages.

 

Regarding his "fake" filibuster, you recently hailed another politician as a "hero" for doing the same thing.

 

Cruz was clearly referring to the ACA 974 page document misdirecting the public viewers as if the law was too over whelming for the public to even ever begin to read over. The tactic Cruz and Lee are using in my opinion is to keep the public completely uninformed about the law. The entire time I've been watching the "fake" filibuster Cruz has not taught the public anything about what is actually in the ACA. The only thing he has really done so far is invoke fear of "possibilities" in his own opinion how the law is bad. As if He himself knows better than anyone else in Washington what is actually good for the country. Seeming to him the country would be better off destroyed if the ACA isn't defunded. No one on capital seems to really likes Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz trash talks and back stabs people in his own party.

 

Regarding Wendy Davis's filibuster over Ted Cruz's "fake" filibuster is not even comparable...

 

Wendy Davis's filibuster was not intentionally meant to raise her nation profile but it did. Ted Cruz is obviously doing this just for the intent to raise his national profile. Also Wendy Davis was actually filibustering a law not just faking a filibuster. Wendy Davis was not reading doctor seuss on the house floor or reciting song lyrics, she stayed on topic and gave an actual intelligent agreement to the anti-abortion bill. Ted Cruz doesn't know enough about the ACA to keep on topic... Wendy Davis was not able to rest, drink, eat, or lean on anything or anyone and stayed on topic for over 13 hours straight. Wendy Davis had huge public support for her filibuster... Ted Cruz just looks like a jack-ass in an empty room with 2 other senators...

 

Ted Cruz isn't going to accomplish anything but accumulate a bit more twitter followers and slightly raise his national profile...

 

This stunt is only creating more enemies for Cruz in his own party on capital hill...

 

What Cruz is doing is a prime example of Democracy at a moronic level....

Edited September 25, 2013 by colourwheel

[TRoaches]

Cruz was clearing referring to the ACA 974 page document misdirecting the public viewers as if the law was too over whelming for the public to even ever begin to read over.

Can you provide a source that quotes him stating that the ACA is more than 1000 pages long?

 

 

The tactic Cruz and Lee are using in my opinion is to keep the public completely uninformed about the law. The entire time I've been watching the "fake" filibuster Cruz has not taught the public anything about what is actually in the ACA. The only thing he has really done so far is invoke fear of "possibilities" in his own opinion how the law is bad.

 

What is the difference between this and "Using the speaking time allotted to him under the rules of the Senate to speak his mind about the legislation and bring awareness to potential problems that he sees in its implementation"?

 

 

As if He himself knows better than anyone else in Washington what is actually good for the country.

 

Each congressperson's job is to do what they think is best for the country. They each claim to know what this is, in one way or another. Criticizing a congressperson for claiming to know what is best for the country is like criticizing an employment counsellor for claiming to know what is best for an unemployed client. In each case, they may or may not know what the best answer is, but all they can do is try their best to perform the job at hand. They are not being pompous or presumptuous by suggesting a course of action, because in each case that is a large part of their job.

 

 

Wendy Davis's filibuster was not intentionally meant to raise her nation profile but it did. Ted Cruz is obviously doing this just for the intent to raise his national profile.

 

Why are you so certain that you know the motivations of Davis or Cruz? Why are you sure that Davis's goal was not to raise her profile, and so sure that Cruz's goal is to raise his? Recently Davis has been hinting at a run for governor and requesting donations in anticipation of a "what's next" announcement. Wendy Davis for governor is something that would not have been plausible prior to her filibuster. What a coincidence!

 

 

Wendy Davis was not able to rest, drink, eat, or lean on anything or anyone and stayed on topic for over 13 hours straight. Wendy Davis had huge public support for her filibuster... Ted Cruz just looks like a jack-ass in an empty room with 2 other senators...

 

Reports are that Cruz was able to take breaks by yielding to other congresspeople, both Democrat and Republican, who then yielded back to him. You are incorrect in saying that he has only been speaking to 2 other senators. If you think it is appropriate to childishly insult him then fair enough, but you should consider how you would have responded had someone responded to your post about Davis's fillibuster by calling her a "jack-ass".

 

 

Ted Cruz isn't going to accomplish anything but accumulate a bit more twitter followers and slightly raise his national profile...

 

Davis did not accomplish anything either, since the bill that she was filibustering as signed into law. Yet, you declared her a hero.

Edited September 25, 2013 by TRoaches

[colourwheel]

 

Cruz was clearing referring to the ACA 974 page document misdirecting the public viewers as if the law was too over whelming for the public to even ever begin to read over.

 

Can you provide a source that quotes him stating that the ACA is more than 1000 pages long?

 

If you haven't been watching then go read the transcript once its made public. I doubt they will add in sub-text about him holding it up above his head...

 

 

The tactic Cruz and Lee are using in my opinion is to keep the public completely uninformed about the law. The entire time I've been watching the "fake" filibuster Cruz has not taught the public anything about what is actually in the ACA. The only thing he has really done so far is invoke fear of "possibilities" in his own opinion how the law is bad.

 

What is the difference between this and "Using the speaking time allotted to him under the rules of the Senate to speak his mind about the legislation and bring awareness to potential problems that he sees in its implementation"?

 

Because he hasn't made any real specifics about the law in question being bad or good he just simply wants the whole thing to be defunded. If he was really intelligent he would spend the time to specifically focus on portions of the law he does not like and wishes to fix instead of just spreading fear and hate which is not going to gain any additional support other than the base supporters he already has to begin with... Also it didn't help him calling those who support the healthcare law as nazi appeasers

 

 

Each congressperson's job is to do what they think is best for the country. They each claim to know what this is, in one way or another. Criticizing a congressperson for claiming to know what is best for the country is like criticizing an employment counsellor for claiming to know what is best for an unemployed client. In each case, they may or may not know what the best answer is, but all they can do is try their best to perform the job at hand. They are not being pompous or presumptuous by suggesting a course of action, because in each case that is a large part of their job.

 

For starters Ted Cruz isn't doing his job in the senate, only thing he has done is disrupt it... shutting down the government and purposely destroying our economy over a healthcare law is really best thing for our country?

 

 

If you think it is appropriate to childishly insult him then fair enough, but you should consider how you would have responded had someone responded to your post about Davis's fillibuster by calling her a "jack-ass".

 

It wouldn't bother me at all because I know Wendy Davis is not Jack-ass. Cruz on the other hand looks more like one at 3:30am in the morning in empty room with 2 other senators making a "fake" filibuster over shutting down the government and the economy over healthcare....

 

 

 

Davis did not accomplish anything either, since the bill that she was filibustering as signed into law. Yet, you declared her a hero.

 

Davis has accomplished far more than Cruz has done in his whole recent senate career. I can't actually really think of anything positive Cruz has accomplished recently. At least Davis has made it possible to show the nation that a completely red state has a chance to turn purple soon. Cruz has just committed political suicide is all. Maybe he can still run for president but there would be no chance of him winning the presidency with not very many republicans supporting him on capital hill.

Edited September 25, 2013 by colourwheel

[TRoaches]

 

 

Cruz was clearing referring to the ACA 974 page document misdirecting the public viewers as if the law was too over whelming for the public to even ever begin to read over.

 

Can you provide a source that quotes him stating that the ACA is more than 1000 pages long?

 

If you haven't been watching then go read the transcript once its made public. I doubt they will add in sub-text about him holding it up above his head...

I'll take that to mean that no, you cannot cite a source that quotes him as saying that the ACA is more than 1000 pages long.

 

 

 

Also it didn't help him calling those who support the healthcare law as nazi appeasers

He did no such thing. He analogously compared people who think it pointless to oppose the law to nazi appeasers, which is not at all the same as calling people who oppose the law nazi appeasers. It may have been a silly or tasteless thing to say, but there is no need to lie about it to make it sound worse than it really was.

 

 

 

It wouldn't bother me at all because I know Wendy Davis is not Jack-ass.

Wendy Davis is an egomaniacal, opportunistic idiot who theatrically donned a costume (pink shoes) and performed a pointless bit of political theater that, in the end, brought no benefit to any of her constituents but certainly granted her lots of face time on cable news and paved the way for her to run for Governor of Texas, an office with a long history of occupation by similarly theatrical egomaniacal idiots. If this paragraph bothers you then just say so. If not, ignore it.

 

 

 

Davis has accomplished far more than Cruz has done in his whole recent senate career. I can't actually really think of anything positive Cruz has accomplished recently.

Ted Cruz has been a state Solicitor General, a state Attorney General, a director at the FTC, a Deputy Attorney General in the Justice Department, a law professor, and a US Senator who contributes to several key committees. Wendy Davis was a city counselor and two term state senator who once gave a very long speech while wearing pink shoes and you act like she changed the world. She didn't even change the outcome of the vote she was addressing. By any measure Cruz has a far more impressive resume than Davis, yet you mock his accomplishments while praising Davis as a hero.

[colourwheel]

 

He analogously compared people who think it pointless to oppose the law to nazi appeasers, which is not at all the same as calling people who oppose the law nazi appeasers. It may have been a silly or tasteless thing to say, but there is no need to lie about it to make it sound worse than it really was.

 

So Cruz is calling law abiding citizens nazi appeasers? whatever...

 

 

Ted Cruz has been a state Solicitor General, a state Attorney General, a director at the FTC, a Deputy Attorney General in the Justice Department, a law professor, and a US Senator who contributes to several key committees.

 

Since you seem to be such a fan of Cruz...

 

What exactly has Cruz accomplished as being state Solicitor General, a state Attorney General, a director at the FTC, a Deputy Attorney General in the Justice Department, a law professor, and a US Senator who contributes to several key committees?

 

All I know is as a senator Cruz has accomplished nothing but disrupting government...

 

Edit: do you even realize that there is a bill that has already passed the house to "defund" Obamacare, But Cruz is doing a "fake" filibuster delaying the bill that he has been fighting for all along?

Edited September 25, 2013 by colourwheel

[TRoaches]

What exactly has Cruz accomplished as being state Solicitor General, a state Attorney General, a director at the FTC, a Deputy Attorney General in the Justice Department, a law professor, and a US Senator who contributes to several key committees?

Holding any one of those positions is, itself, an accomplishment. Having already held ALL of those positions at such a young age is quite distinguished. That you would look at that sort of resume and question the person's status or contribution is strange. It indicates that you are absolutely committed to disliking Cruz, regardless of any reasons that may present themselves to admire him or any fair or relevant issues that he may raise or points that he may make.

 

What if you were "better educated" about Ted Cruz? Would that improve things? What if high school students right now were forced to learn why Ted Cruz is a great man to be admired for his civic contribution? According to your earlier premise that would strengthen our democracy, right? I don't think it would because, as I stated earlier, "political education" is simply a nicer way of saying "propaganda".

[colourwheel]

It's always good to know more about the people in political power. Just like how it's good to know when a politician is comparing people who wish to obey the law as nazi appeasers. lol

[Hardwaremaster]

Well, I must say this redundant education argument has been amusing, but I do believe I have found something more entertaining and interesting. This explains my point even further as to why, Democracy doesn't actually work, because of superfluous politics and bureaucracy. I sincerely hope that none of these laws actually exist, but from what I've read, there are still some laws on the books that are really weird and archaic. Which I think they need to remove as soon as possible, on account of them being totally ridiculous, and useless at the same time.

 

 

To me this is beginning to look like a convoluted counterproductive endeavor; to validate a swollen governments pathetic employment. We really don't need laws for most of this stuff, if not all of them, some of them appear to be common sense or plain normal decency. When you couple this with some of the other, and I hate to use this word that way, retarded news stories of completely stupid situations. It really makes one wonder whats going on in society anymore, I feel as if all these laws were created for some weird entitlement civilization that can't handle irritation.

 

Which to be honest, some of these laws, look like they were passed because of personal annoyances, rather than real legitimate problems. Then there are those that completely don't make any sense, whatsoever, in comparison to other really strange policy's and laws. That I will let you people decide for yourselves, what I happen to be talking about.

 

 

 

http://www.usattorneylegalservices.com/stupid-laws.html

 

 

Edited September 25, 2013 by Hardwaremaster