Indoril Nerevar Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 "And murder is not an appropriate comparison at all. We all have an experience of life - and if we value life, we can at least gain an approximation of what losing a life means. Compare it, rather, to breaking an oath to secrecy under torture. Unless you have been in the situation, you cannot judge people who been in one. "- Theta Orionis if you value life so much, then why don't you care what that baby goes through in losing its life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Again, you did not catch it. Without ANY blood. not a little, but any (which means the person has no blood in them what so ever!) then the brain cannot get oxygen. it cannot function. Therefore the human dies along with other vital systems not getting oxygen from the blood. Try again, someday you'll understand the flaw in your argument. A single blood cell has the same dna and chromosomes as a human. By your "if it has 46, it's human" rule, a blood cell is human. Therefore it has all the rights of a human. Every time you wipe the blood off a cut, you are responsible for mass murder. Or at minimum, something that is just as morally wrong as abortion. -------------------------------------------------------------- Theta Orionis, you massively overestimate the knowledge required to make a moral decision. Just because someone doesn't put the same value that you do on all those things does not mean that they are unaware of their existence, or unqualified to make that judgement. I know perfectly well that having a baby brings various inconveniences, or unpleasant effects. But I do not consider these as important as other factors. It is unarguable fact that we do not know exactly when that inanimate blob of cells becomes "life". Therefore with any abortion, there is a risk of killing something that has already become life. I do not consider this risk an acceptable one to take to allow people to avoid the consequences of an act they willingly decided to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indoril Nerevar Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Blood is PART of the body of a human. Seriously have you been skiming my replies? It seem so because you still have yet to grasp what I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Blood is PART of the body of a human. Seriously have you been skiming my replies? It seem so because you still have yet to grasp what I am saying. I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument. And when it is just two cells, a baby is nothing more than part of a human body. It is not capable of independent life outside the mother. Just like a pair of blood cells aren't capable of life outside the body. So why is one murder and one not? According to you, both are equally human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------- Theta Orionis, you massively overestimate the knowledge required to make a moral decision. Just because someone doesn't put the same value that you do on all those things does not mean that they are unaware of their existence, or unqualified to make that judgement. I know perfectly well that having a baby brings various inconveniences, or unpleasant effects. But I do not consider these as important as other factors. It is unarguable fact that we do not know exactly when that inanimate blob of cells becomes "life". Therefore with any abortion, there is a risk of killing something that has already become life. I do not consider this risk an acceptable one to take to allow people to avoid the consequences of an act they willingly decided to do.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree with you - I think the physical, psychological and emotional well-being of the woman is more important than a potential baby (potential because until a foetus is independently viable its survival is not assured. Many things can go wrong during pregnancy). However, I accept that we both place a different emphasis on those factors. Given that I, should I ever become pregnant again, would have no choice but to terminate the pregnancy I probably view things rather differently than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I disagree with you - I think the physical, psychological and emotional well-being of the woman is more important than a potential baby (potential because until a foetus is independently viable its survival is not assured. Many things can go wrong during pregnancy). Fortunately there is an easy way to avoid any harm to the physical, psychological and emotional well-being of that woman. Don't have sex. You will never get pregnant. If you decide to have sex, you accept the risk of consequences, including pregnancy. If you don't want the risk, nobody is forcing you to have sex. Abortion in that case is nothing more than a dodge of responsibility when people realize that they did something stupid and expect there to be no consequences for it. However, I accept that we both place a different emphasis on those factors. Given that I, should I ever become pregnant again, would have no choice but to terminate the pregnancy I probably view things rather differently than you do. And I will consider you morally wrong to do so. If you can not deal with the consequenes, don't have sex. It is a willing choice to take that risk, one that you are free to reject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indoril Nerevar Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Peregine Peregrine Peregrine Those two cells in the womb are stem cells. They are basically raw DNA. they can and are the only cells that can become something else. The DNA instructs the stem cells(SC) to be something(Blood, muscle, brain, etc..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Peregine Peregrine Peregrine Those two cells in the womb are stem cells. They are basically raw DNA. they can and are the only cells that can become something else. The DNA instructs the stem cells(SC) to be something(Blood, muscle, brain, etc..) So only stem cells are considered life? If something is no longer a stem cell, it is not considered human? Excellent. I expect you to stick to your principles and not protest when I remove every non-stem cell from your body and burn them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Sex is part of a loving relationship. Sex is fun. Sex is pleasure. I will not give it up because of the small chance of contraceptive failure. And I know full well that any consequences are mine to deal with. I accept the responsibility that it may place me into a position where I am forced to make a choice I would rather not make. My decision - my choice. This is my life, not yours - and I live it as I see fit. Whether you consider it morally wrong is your problem, not mine. Do you think it is right to impose your moral standard upon others, though - whether by way of legislation or intimidation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indoril Nerevar Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Sex is part of a loving relationship. Sex is fun. Sex is pleasure. I will not give it up because of the small chance of contraceptive failure. And I know full well that any consequences are mine to deal with. I accept the responsibility that it may place me into a position where I am forced to make a choice I would rather not make. My decision - my choice. This is my life, not yours - and I live it as I see fit. Whether you consider it morally wrong is your problem, not mine.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Again that is selfish. you deny that the baby does not go through anything. You may live as you see fit. just try not to make others pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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