Mojave Reloaded (Another Reloaded Mod? Wow. Lame.) WIP!

[ToxicWhiteout]

I didn't say anything about the final battle. If you do the NCR-King quest a certain way, the NCR will send a team of troopers to the King's headquarters to kill all of them.

 

Also as far as guards go, I still feel that they would fit a lot better than other troopers. They have the armor to fit, but aren't as strong or well-equipped as heavy troopers which wouldn't fit in security locations (even though the developers put them in Forlorn Hope and Hoover Dam security areas anyways).

 

I don't think I'll add an automatic rifleman, as I don't think the NCR has enough assault carbines and LMGs to do that. For example, the only units in the entire NCR army that uses automatic weapons are heavy troopers and even they don't use assault carbines. I don't want to make the NCR any more powerful than they already are (which is WAY too strong), I just want to add diversity to them.

 

However, I will change the NCR Sniper to an NCR Marksman. It sounds cooler anyways. I don't want to do sharpshooter because there already is a First Recon Sharpshooter team.

 

I'll definitely add boomer elders then.

 

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.

[headshots989]

you should add some bnb armors... because that would totally be awesome. haha jk
It sounds good so far and looking forwards to it. Maybe you could do something with the camp searchlight airport. That location is pretty dead.

[bjornl]

dangman4ever, on 03 Nov 2013 - 3:31 PM, said:

The U.S Marines are equipped and have tactics very similar to that of the U.S Army. Just don't mention that to a Marine though

Heresy. The army always gets newer gear. They were changing over from the m16a2 to m16a3 before we got over to the m16a2, for example. Newer pistols, newer everything. The Marines have heavier weapons (meaning more machine-guns, mortars, etc at small unit level).

When was the last time the Army trained for a beach assault? Just before Normady? There is no such thing as a Marine 'rear-echelon' such as the Army has. Every Marine is first a rifleman before he goes to MOS school. Every Marine in a landing party group is trained for beach assaults. Cooks, clerks, drivers, radiomen, etc are not exempt. The Marines do not even have a medical branch due to focus on killing bad guys (so we had to borrow those types of services from the Navy). I started out a heavy weapons fella but got moved to Admin due to extensive education (7+ years University) and "needs of the service". Even so I got jump, beach, and helicopter training (as did everyone in my platoon).

 

(me a long time ago)

 

 

As for guards, the military just use regular soldiers or military police to do the guarding. Yes they are sometimes equipped with shotguns. But the military don't change the names or roles of those guards based on whether they use shotguns or rifles.

But they do. What do you call a normal policeman in riot gear? You call them the riot police. What do you call troops trained for aerial-assault? paratroopers. Are they still Army Rangers or US Marines, yes but it is accepted to refer to them by their special equipment/training.

Speaking of snipers, now that I think about it, 1st Recon already takes over the role of the NCR snipers.

Snipers today come in just about every flavor. US Marine snipers would never yield the field to a bunch of rangers no matter what color beret they had on. Army, Marine and Navy all have their own snipers with their own missions which sometimes overlap. But I like the idea of changing their name, as diversity is good.

Also, current military fireteams of 4 soldiers usually include a light machine gunner or automatic rifleman.

Logical fireteams need not break anything. He has already beefed up both raiders, Legionaries, etc. Just like the Legion assassin teams which also use mixed weapons and break little or nothing.

Boomer Elders would basically mean a bunch of old boomers. So not bad.

I prefer a Boomer elite unit, however I question its usefulness since they are insular and do not come out of their enclave. I don't see how boomer elders would be interesting or useful either (except for variety).

I don't like the idea of NCR mercenaries.

I do. Fits with the idea of a wild-west frontier.

TheScout201, on 03 Nov 2013 - 1:00 PM, said:

To dangman4ever and bjornl:

For the NCR Shock troopers: Should I call them NCR Riot Troopers then?

I like the name shocktroops for them. Riot troopers are sort of taken.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_riot_gear

To bjornl: I'll try to add some melee weapons for them. I was initially just going to give them shock batons as a non-lethal secondary,

 

I just see having some 'riot-troopers' (whatever you call them) having other close-quarter weapons as a good mix given the units you seem to be modeling them after. Maybe have the shotgun troops lightly armored and the pistol/melee heavily armored? Assault troops like shock troopers tend to have lighter armor for increased maneuverability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtrooper

The German Stormtroopers (shock troops) would strip off their packs, and everything they could drop except for their rifle and uniform to charge quickly over no-mans land and wreck havoc behind the enemy lines.

Also given the Legions heavy use of melee weapons the NCR should reasonably come up with a counter. The modern counter is machine-guns (which establish zones of control). But the real world is a bit different from the world presented in FNV. So I think this is a good idea and it fits.

[ToxicWhiteout]

@headshots haha! And I do want to work on the airport, but there are already a lot of mods that change that area.

 

@bjornl thanks for all the input. I don't think I can please everyone, so I'll try to find a equal ground between a lot of the opinions you guys have been putting out.

[sgtKraigO]

I haven't read all of the comments since I'm suppose to be doing homework that's due in 8 hours (yay!), so sorry if someone brought this up earlier. Isn't the "Trooper Sniper" a 1st Recon? Why not just have more 1st Recon squads in and around bases. They are suppose to be less deadly than the rangers and since there is only one squad of 1st Recon and 2 retired members it always seemed odd their lack of numbers compared to the rangers.

[ToxicWhiteout]

Yeah, I'm changing them to NCR Marksmen instead. I had discussed that in the comments, but since you said you hadn't read the comments I don't blame you. I'll switch it in the main post as soon as I can.

[dangman4ever]

Heresy. The army always gets newer gear. They were changing over from the m16a2 to m16a3 before we got over to the m16a2, for example. Newer pistols, newer everything. The Marines have heavier weapons (meaning more machine-guns, mortars, etc at small unit level).

 

When was the last time the Army trained for a beach assault? Just before Normady? There is no such thing as a Marine 'rear-echelon' such as the Army has. Every Marine is first a rifleman before he goes to MOS school. Every Marine in a landing party group is trained for beach assaults. Cooks, clerks, drivers, radiomen, etc are not exempt. The Marines do not even have a medical branch due to focus on killing bad guys (so we had to borrow those types of services from the Navy). I started out a heavy weapons fella but got moved to Admin due to extensive education (7+ years University) and "needs of the service". Even so I got jump, beach, and helicopter training (as did everyone in my platoon).

All good points. However, when assaulting a building, a fortification, or any other heavily defended position, are basic Marine and Army tactics for dealing with those situations that much different from one another?

 

 

But they do. What do you call a normal policeman in riot gear? You call them the riot police. What do you call troops trained for aerial-assault? paratroopers. Are they still Army Rangers or US Marines, yes but it is accepted to refer to them by their special equipment/training.

Fair enough. But we're talking about shotguns here. Are there military units/personnel totally dedicated to using the shotgun as a primary weapon and also being called a different name as result? Is there a "shotgunner" like there is a "rifleman"? But I still don't see a real need for these "Shock troops" as part of the NCR. Does the NCR really need a dedicated unit using only shotguns and for assaulting buildings? I mean, what exact role(s) would these NCR Shocktroops or RIot troops have that aren't or can't be done by existing NCR troopers, NCR Rangers, or the NCR Heavy Troopers in-game? In fact, IIRC, the Heavy Troopers are already refered to as shock troopers in the game itself.

 

 

Logical fireteams need not break anything. He has already beefed up both raiders, Legionaries, etc. Just like the Legion assassin teams which also use mixed weapons and break little or nothing.

Not sure where I said the fireteams would break anything. Or did you mean to quote Scout instead of me? He had the objection of equipping light machine guns into a NCR fireteam.

 

I prefer a Boomer elite unit, however I question its usefulness since they are insular and do not come out of their enclave. I don't see how boomer elders would be interesting or useful either (except for variety).

It's pretty much the variety aspect that makes me like the Boomer Elder idea.

 

 

I do. Fits with the idea of a wild-west frontier.

I would prefer the term private military contractor as the game does refer to the courier as a contractor during one of the Mr. New Vegas broadcasts. With that said, I question the usefulness of other NCR merceneries in the context of the game. What would they be doing?

 

Edited November 4, 2013 by dangman4ever

[bjornl]

dangman4ever, on 03 Nov 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

All good points. However, when assaulting a building, a fortification, or any other heavily defended position, are basic Marine and Army tactics for dealing with those situations that much different from one another?

I can't speak with any precision for today's operations. But I can for the time I served. The USMC was notoriously bad at capturing stuff. We didn't take buildings, we razed them to the ground. I compared notes once with a friend of a friend who was a well decorated army dude and had similar missions to what I did. He got considerable more urban warfare training while I got considerably more survival and 'improvised' engagement training. The Army, for example, maintained that the m16 could not be accurately fired beyond 300 meters while the Marines trained at 500m (600m for snipers and sniper-types). At 500m I can not ever recall getting less then 9 of 10 bulls, while my 'friend' at no idea if he could or could not hit anything at that range. Even basic levels or training were different. They make far more use of vehicles with their infantry, while the marines train with vehicles but spend far more time training as if no vehicles will ever be available for our side. If you talk to foreign forces like (for example) SAS and SAB units I trained with... and others there is a wide spread opinion that both forces are formidable but one is more dangerous.

I would prefer the term private military contractor as the game does refer to the courier as a contractor during one of the Mr. New Vegas broadcasts. With that said, I question the usefulness of other NCR merceneries in the context of the game. What would they be doing?

 

 

mercenary is just a synonym. I think gentile folk will use gentile phrasing. Rough and tumble folk won't worry as much about that.

A mercenary would not be there to help the NCR but to help themself. This is true whether they are inviduals, small groups or large corporations. The NCR is undermanned and in some cases overwhelmed (Lost Nipton, NCRCF and Nelson, and know about cottonwood cove but unable to dislodge the troops there). Given that scenario having auxilliary troops sitting idle would seem to be a luxury. I think the NCR and other parties would only be too happy to hire them. Novac might be willing to provide food, lodging and a modest stipend just to have some bivouac.

Fair enough. But we're talking about shotguns here. Are there military units/personnel totally dedicated to using the shotgun as a primary weapon and also being called a different name as result? Is there a "shotgunner" like there is a "rifleman"? But I still don't see a real need for these "Shock troops" as part of the NCR. Does the NCR really need a dedicated unit using only shotguns and for assaulting buildings? I mean, what exact role(s) would these NCR Shocktroops or RIot troops have that aren't or can't be done by existing NCR troopers, NCR Rangers, or the NCR Heavy Troopers in-game? In fact, IIRC, the Heavy Troopers are already refered to as shock troopers in the game itself.

 

 

Not sure on the name. I do think the NCR needs something along the lines that TheScout201 has proposed. If it were me doing it, I'd scale back the armor on most of them. Give the others lots of explosives and such. Maybe call them combat engineers if you prefer. But what is really lacking is a counter to close-quarter combat units the Legion is fielding. Does it have to be guys with shotguns, pistols and melee weapons? Obviously not. If they have good supply lines, then mine fields and machinegunners would do a better job. In the pacific theater in WW2 the Marines faced a determined foe which wanted to engage at close quarters. They did not resort to pikes there either... so no there are other ways to solve it. Were you and I both listening in on the NCR general staff I am sure their arguments would not be very different from ours.

Lets do a little role-playing...

Col. Dangman, Maj. Scout has come forth with a troop re-allocation plan which he says will better counter the current threat we face on the field. Your methodology in the past has proven sound and well thought out, so I would love to have your thoughts on this before I take it to Gen. Oliver.

The problem to solve is this: we are thin in a number of locations. The enemy tactics feature a predilection for closing as rapidly as possible and overrun our positions and engage in hand to hand combat which we at present are ill equipped to counter. Furthermore the last major urban engagement went badly for us as the fighting in the tight areas of boulder city resulted in nearly catastrophic losses to our most seasoned troops. We need something which is both cost effective, manpower effective while still raising our capabilities in this area. Maj. Scout's approach, while not ideal, would seem to present a solution which is feasible economically, resource light and not require large-scale retraining. What do you propose as a counter solution?

[ToxicWhiteout]

In my opinion, the shotgun troops should have heavy armor. It wouldn't make sense for the NCR to give their close range soldiers light armor, as then the enemy would just pick up their shotguns and use them against the NCR troopers who aren't very heavily armored either. I think it would make more sense to put the armored juggernauts with shotguns in the front, and then have the troopers behind them picking off enemies with more accurate weapons while avoiding fire thanks to the Riot Troopers.

[bjornl]

Of course there is nothing stopping you. But just to play devils advocate...

In a riot police type role the shotgun guys do not have heavy protection. They have light or medium. The melee guys have the best armor available.

Which is one of the reasons having a mix is good. Some tanks and some other close quarter options.

If you are worried about the shotgunners being less useful give them 'enchanted' shotguns which are not playable (for playercharacters). This magic gun can give the shooter the knock-down (and stayback) perk. OnDeath the non-playable version is swapped out for a conventional one for PC and Legion looters.

For tactics, it might even be possible to script the shotgunners to follow a melee unit. Allowing the melee unit to advance with the gun'ed unit following. The other riflemen providing cover fire and if you want to get fancy, machinegunners establishing zones of control. I don't know enough about the scripting language, but it might be possible to make pill-boxes. Machinegun nests where the gun is fixed and not lootable or moveable.

Historically, this mix has been there.

Pikemen, sword/axe backed by bowmen. (for example)

US Marines have historically recieved the least body armor and yet remain the closest to shock troops(as dangman4ever pointed out above). Not saying the USMC prefers to have the least and the oldest gear, just saying there is the mission and there is the gearlist. In a cash strapped situation the two don't always achieve perfect synergy.

I think (trying to follow your vision, rather then project my own) that giving the shotgun-type troops at least a little advantage would be appropriate. How much while still retaining game balance can get tricky. I think giving the melee guys as much protection as possible makes sense. Maybe not powerarmor level since how would they ever catch anyone to crunk them with that axe... but their mission definately would seem to call for them to not just deliver blows but be able to stand there and exchange blows while the shotgunners and others did their stuff.

Either way, heavy shotgunners, or light shotgunners I think your idea is interesting and so long as care is used will add good variety without changing game balance.