[LE] Mod that makes wielding a one-handed weapon with NO SHIELD sensible?

[InDarkestNight]

Its a common thing to see with npcs, but there's absolutely no reason for the player to do so. You lose nothing by having SOMETHING in your off-hand, so there's no reason to not do so. I sorta thought it would be neat to do a 'duelist' character who uses a rapier, but of course such a build would make no sense. Perk overhauls like Vokrii and Ordinator help to make certain underpowered builds more viable, but I've never heard of one that makes THIS actually make sense. If npcs are allowed to do it, then why not the player? The best I can find are mods that add more block perks that DON'T require a shield, but they don't offer anything for characters that don't use one. This means you're still better off using a shield either way, even if you're punished as much for not doing so.

[showler]

I'd imagine the whole combat situation would have to be changed to make it make sense. Parries and dodges for light weapons, two-handed blocks being beneficial for heavier swords.

[InDarkestNight]

From what I've heard about actual sword fighting, shields in the real world were often too expensive for average people to afford. Often times they would just stick to a single weapon, or perhaps duel-wield just so they'd have something in their off-hand to at least parry with. This of course wasn't something you would see in an actual battle; things like rapiers and sais were designed for common people to use as self-defense. In fact, the reason rapiers became so popular was because of their reach; if you can keep your opponent far enough away from you, you can get away without having a shield or even armor. In fact, two-handed weapons like claymores were actually more about extra defense than offense. Because of their size you could hit your opponent from far enough away that they couldn't counter-attack, and being so big they also made pretty decent shields. There was also this case of some 'samurai' (whose name escapes me sadly), who was challenging people to duels just so he could get away with being a mass murderer. His trick was that he had a katana that was just six inches longer than standard. This alone was enough to give him a huge advantage. In fact, he was only defeated after the famed Miyamoto Musashi challenged him armed with a simple wooden club a full foot longer than his sword. Point is, reach was a big deal in actual sword fighting. Halberds in fact were designed to maximize reach. This isn't much of a mechanic in the game of course, though it is a bit harder to dodge attacks made by an npc wielding a two-handed weapon unless you have one too and thus don't have to come in as close to attack. Basically, bigger weapons beat smaller weapons, except inside of tight spaces like interiors and on board ships, in which case the dynamic was completely reversed because its harder to maneuver a large weapon in a compact space. In fact, contrary to modern media, pirates actually preferred falchions and early firearms over rapiers (though they would make use of whatever they could get their hands on, falchions were still their preferred choice). Falchions were actually one of the more popular sword designs since they were specifically designed for tight spaces. In fact, the people who apprehended the templars all came wielding falchions specifically because they were arresting them inside their headquarters. Back on topic, Skyrim clearly doesn't implement this feature in any shape or form.

 

Regarding shields, really they were pretty much required for soldiers. Simply nothing else countered arrows. Besides, they were OP as f*#@, so if you could use them you needed to. Its why modern HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) doesn't allow shields outside of small bucklers; it would cause duels to take WAY too long.

 

Yeah, Skyrim's isn't the most realistic. Of course, it if was duels would only last seconds, and your giant two-hander would be rendered unusable while indoors. And of course obviously everyone would be one-shotting each other. You can at least implement the last feature through wildcat or smilodon at least. Of course, fights that only last seconds aren't too fun, which is why movies don't show realistic duels. Its why I've always taken issue with Wildcat's and Smilodon's damage increases. It may be more realistic, but I find its just not as fun. I prefer fights you can savor, with a lot more back and forth. Also, I don't like having to reload and play the same fights over and over again, so there's that too.

[rkkn]

Its a common thing to see with npcs, but there's absolutely no reason for the player to do so. You lose nothing by having SOMETHING in your off-hand, so there's no reason to not do so. I sorta thought it would be neat to do a 'duelist' character who uses a rapier, but of course such a build would make no sense. Perk overhauls like Vokrii and Ordinator help to make certain underpowered builds more viable, but I've never heard of one that makes THIS actually make sense. If npcs are allowed to do it, then why not the player? The best I can find are mods that add more block perks that DON'T require a shield, but they don't offer anything for characters that don't use one. This means you're still better off using a shield either way, even if you're punished as much for not doing so.

This is a very good point.

 

Perhaps something as simple as "+10% weapon damage and +10% weapon speed when offhand is empty" might do the trick

[Oblivionaddicted]

I appreciate your taste for history.

 

Fighting with a weapon in one hand and the other empty makes sense because you can enjoy the abundant possibilities magic offers, it's my favorite fighting style by the way.

[rkkn]

I appreciate your taste for history.

 

Fighting with a weapon in one hand and the other empty makes sense because you can enjoy the abundant possibilities magic offers, it's my favorite fighting style by the way.

magic in offhand is not the same as empty offhand though

[Sphered]

Helpful reply edit. If you want this you could make a staff with no 3d aka just a blank object that will not be seen. Give it no enchant. Equip it forever in the hand you want to not do anything. When you attempt to use the staff it wont do anything since no charge and no melee attack available. The only real visual quirk would be you still "draw" it but imo it would look less bad than fists up

 

Empty

Edited June 17, 2023 by Sphered

[InDarkestNight]

I appreciate your taste for history.

 

Fighting with a weapon in one hand and the other empty makes sense because you can enjoy the abundant possibilities magic offers, it's my favorite fighting style by the way.

There's already mods that make the spell+sword thing viable. A lot of perk overhauls do this, typically by adding more synergy to the combo (such as making melee attacks lower magic defense, while magic reduces armor). Some spell mods also add in melee-range spells that hit far harder than their ranged counterparts.

[rkkn]

Did you have anything specific in mind?

 

And what did you think of this?

 

Perhaps something as simple as "+10% weapon damage and +10% weapon speed when offhand is empty" might do the trick

Edited June 30, 2023 by rkkn