Do the dead deseve more respect?

[Malchik]

I don't understand your point Peregrine. People are no more respectful of the dead than the living. There is nothing to debate.

 

As Theta points out, immediately after someone has died most civilised people allow those who are upset by the death time to come to terms with the changed circumstances. It doesn't change opinions and doesn't mean that the person who has died will not subsequently be shredded by the mangle of public opinion but only after a period of rest and reflection.

 

What you are really asking is whether this bereavement period is hypocritical. And the answer is no. It is hypocritical to lie about your views to please others whether they are alive or dead. Simply by not speaking (unless asked to of course) is adult acceptance that the loss of a loved one is a shattering event for those affected.

 

The Pope was to many revered and loved as a father. You may feel that they are misguided and you are entitled to your opinion. However when a father dies civilised people keep stumm until the children have come to terms with it. But when you are as rabid a theophobe as you I suppose this is difficult.

 

Get over it!

[Zmid]

Do the dead deserve more respect?

 

No. If you respect them in life, you should respect them in death, but I see no reason to respect them in death if you didn't respect them in life.

 

Should you take into consideration the feelings of their family/friends/anyone else who is affected by their death?

 

Most definately. In the case of the Pope, as head of the Catholic church, this is a huge number of people, most directly Catholics, and, to a lesser extent, other Christians as well.

[Wookiee]

That's the hypocrisy I'm talking about, laughing at one dead person, while claiming the moral high ground to lecture from when I do the same with a different dead person.

 

I never lectured you i just disagreed with you and explaind my reasoning there is a big diference (im a phylosophy major at university) and no i never said i wasent a hypocrit... but if your friend died would you aprechiate ppl talking about him in the same fasion as you did the pope the same DAY he died? that might be hypocracy me thinks

 

also i think theta hit it on the head about the people left to morn him that is where the respect should go to.

[KzinistZerg]

:/ Mmm... Out of respect for those who grieve laugh into a pilow, not into their faces. But other than that, what you think is your own buisness...

 

And besides, laughing is not hypocritical(<-Spelled wrong, methinks); we laugh at bad things. Go check it out for yourself; we laugh at death as a way to shield ourselves from it. So laugh, but not in my face or in anyone elses... right after the pope dies. Two months from now, sure. But not now.

[Ancalagon]

I am guilty of laughing at a dead person, or moreso showing disrespect. A man I had to perform CPR on (chest compressions, someone else was ventalating) was pretty much dead, the CPR was for the family who was present (basically a PR move, it shows that at least we attempted to take care of him). While I rode in the ambulance performing chest compressions, the body was expelling gas that had built up in the digestive track post-mortem. It was hard to keep a straight face while doing the compressions, and afterwards I developed a nickname for the dead man "Frank n' Beans" (his name was Frank).

 

Essentially, my Engineer for that day told me that we needed to laugh at such things, because if we don't it wears on us and eventually weighs our emotions down. The nickname helps me smile (in a sadistic, sick, f-ed up way) whenever I start to think too much about Frank's listless, dead body. In a way, I believe that some respect to the dead should be shown, it's cultural (IMHO). However, going so far as to look only at the positive things the deceased had accomplished in life is just stupid (Ronald Reagan, for example, NO ONE mentioned the Iran-Contra affair, or the failiure of Reagan-nomics) and over-sentemental at best. In my opinion, death should be where the person is held acountable for all of their deeds, good and bad. To only focus on what one wants to hear, in "respect to the dead" is silly. The dead are dead, what influence have they on life anymore?

[Adras]

This isnt really about death, but its as George Carlin said, (roughly quoted) "Parents and teachers shouldnt automatically have respect, they should earn it." Personally, I think that the dead should be respected if they were a respectable person in life. If they were a mass murderer, they dont really deserve a funeral because they arent going to a good place anyways. Not that I'm religious, but I know that if there is a heaven and hell, mass murderers aint going to heaven. I wont go off on the religion thing, but I do think that they should be respected and have a proper funeral if their life was good. Not little flaws like getting drunk twice and hitting someone. Thats not the mark of a bad person. Thats a mark of someone with bad judgment (about getting drunk). They COULD be a bad person though. If you people actually followed what I just said, I give you credit.

[Malchik]

The dead are dead, what influence have they on life anymore?

 

That may be a bit simplistic. Most religious teachings are based on the words of dead people who wield huge power over those alive, through agents admittedly. Lawmakers powers survive after death and their reputations often affect the way the laws are looked at.

 

Who hasn't heard 'oh but we can't change that, X did it' or words to that effect?

 

The length of time after death plays strange tricks on reputations. After the grieving period is over first come all the back-biters and nay-sayers writing what they wouldn't have dared to write while the person was alive. Most of it is exaggerated and heavily slanted by anger, envy and jealousy. Anyone who was really hurt or damaged will need longer to come to terms with it. These are usually accompanied by psychophantic eulogies and accolades equally wrong-headed. Several years after death more realistic balanced assessments are made.

 

As time progresses and no one is alive who knew the individual or knew anyone who did personally, reputations have to be assessed on the legacy alone. Probably that is the first time a completely unbiased assessment is made and even that is influenced by the agenda and standpoint of the reviewer.

[Chaosmaker]

I think the dead deserve a lot of respect however if they're male without a father terrorist's their graves should honestly ( Excuse my language ) be pissed on. But people who have made a good impact should be respected because they will one day be role models.

[Akrid]

I agree mostly with Theta on this one. But what I think is really the aggitator of this whole debate being started is really a question of "do the dead deserve more pity?" Am I right? I really dont think they do, mainly because I'm going to die one day and its all mans fate, so unless you are immortal then I say you really shouldnt worry about the dead, unless of course somone who the dead meant somthing to is around, cause thier not dead and thier feelings are still there.

[Ancalagon]

Honestly, I hope that when I die it's lights out. Life is weird and tough enough as it is, I don't think I could stand to be around in some bizarre pseudo-life after death bid. In any case, I'll be dead, so if anybody wishes to talk about me for good or ill I don't care...cause I'll be dead and it won't affect me.

 

Aside from that, Malchik I completley agree with you on the thought that unbiased assessments are made once the "Seven Ways to Kevin Bacon" chain is broken. I also retract the statement on the dead having little influence on the living, as history shows repeatedly for this to be wrong (in terms of religious movements, rights movements, Tolkien, etc.). But I'll stand by the argument that the speaking of the bad things that the dead had done shouldn't have to wait, until everyone who was partial to said cadaver is dead. Life is life, and having a rosy vision of how a person once was (as opposed to reality) IMHO tarnishes that person's life and makes them seem more than what they really were.

 

I just dislike glorifying the dead when the dead in question are: A. un-deserving of such an honor, B. Just recently deceased and somebody decides that we have to fly our flags at half-mast for an entire month (which is a pain in the a.ss unto itself, I assure you) or C. Not important in my life; yet their image greets me every morning on the news, in the news paper, and on the net. How many times can one reaffirm that I...JUST...DON'T...CARE? *(Not in reference to the Pope, but still, I don't care)