CS crashing on save

[chambcra]

I'm working on a fair size quest mod that will have a dozen caves and at least eight world spaces. So, I want to have an ESM file and do new work into a new ESP file and then periodically merge the ESP file into the ESM and start a new Temp.esp. I've already done this once with no problem. When I made my first ESM file I found out about the problem that you can't make changes to the Tamriel worldspace in an ESM file or you get the landscape LOD missing completely. So, with Tes4Gecko I split off from my ESM a small ESP that has just the couple changes to the Tamriel Landscape. I had LostRiver.esm, LostRiver.esp and TempWork1.esp. That worked fine. I loaded all three and made TempWork1.esp active. I didn't do a lot of work in TempWork1.esp because I wanted to test my method so I merged TempWork1.esp into LostRiver.esm and started working on TempWork2.esp. This worked fine loading LostRiver.esm, LostRiver.esp and TempWork2.esp as active and doing more work. Now I've merged TempWork2.esp into LostRiver.esm and I can't start a new TempWork3.esp because the CS crashes on saving if LostRiver.esp was loaded. If I don't load LostRiver.esp it works but I always get errors on starting because of the missing items in LostRiver.esp. It doesn't make sense because it's the exact same thing that worked fine with TempWork1.esp. I can't really just ignore those errors for a couple years because I need to watch for new errors and I need to find out what is the problem.

 

I'm hoping maybe there is a simple trick or maybe I'm doing something blatantly stupid.

 

Thanks

[Striker879]

Are any of your changes in Temp3.esp dependent on stuff only found in LostRiver.esp?

[chambcra]

There's nothing in Temp3.esp yet. Trying to save it empty is crashing. With only LostRiver.esm and LostRiver.esp checked and nothing active when the CS starts up and I hit the save button it crashes. If there was content in Temp3 I think you would say it is dependent on LostRiver.esp in a way. The only thing in LostRiver.esp (or so I thought) is three cave entrance rocks, three doors, and three triggerzones. One cave enters from Tamriel and exits into Tamriel and the second cave enters from Tamriel and exits into a new world. So, temp3 would be dependent on LostRiver.esp in the sense that it's the only way to get there. Nothing really directly links like a door in LostRiver.esp linked to a door in temp3 (or will be when I get it working). There are three such cases between LostRiver.esp and LostRiver.esm. Without the esp checked at startup I get three errors for trigger zones and three errors for doors so I thought that's expected. It didn't matter either with or without the esp and the errors I could work on temp2 and save and start the game to check it out and it's been working fine for 4 months. There's two ways I can get a successful save of temp3 and that's to either not load LostRiver.esp or use CSE. Because LostRiver.esp was so small (116 KB) and everything was working I assumed it only had the essential items in the Tamriel worldspace. Now for the first time, to answer your question, I've looked at it with Tes4Edit and there's a lot more in there which doesn't make sense so maybe Tes4Gecko didn't split it off quite right or maybe I just don't remember how I got temp2 started.

 

Thanks

[Striker879]

The vanilla CS does have a reputation to include things that are not intended when saving.

 

I make it a habit to never use the Cancel button if I open a record I do not intend to save (either opened to check something or opened by accident). I use the Windows interface X (top right) to close instead of Cancel.

[RomanR]

How do you load these files after merging TempWork2.esp into LostRiver.esm? I presume that I would check both LostRiver files and make active an esm file, as I want to make further changes into LostRiver master, not esp.

 

Does CS shows any error while loading all these files? Maybe CS can't process a fact that with merging WorkTemp2 into master file it become dependant on esp too?

Edited August 29, 2023 by RomanR

[chambcra]

To try and start a new Temp3 I have LR.esm and LR.esp both checked and nothing active. That's how I've always created a new esp. I've done a test and checking Oblivion.esm doesn't make any difference (it's a master for LR.esm anyway).I didn't think you could make an esm active and you can't modify one with the CS. Maybe you can with CSE and maybe I'm mistaken. My plan is I don't want to keep modifying the esm over and over for every little bit of work even if I could. The esm is over 5 MB and will be probably at least 20 MB eventually so I don't want to be saving 20 MB every time I add 20 trees or do some texture work. It seems to me keeping my working esp below 2.5 MB and then at that point merging it into the esm and starting a new working esp is good way to go.

 

The CS doesn't show any errors loading both esm and esp. If LR.esp is not checked it shows 6 errors all having to do with the doors that are linked from Tamriel to my new cells. What's funny is if LR.esp is unchecked and I get the errors then I can save a new temp3. You would think it would be the other way around.

 

With just the new merged LR.esm and LR.esp transferred to another computer and a bsa file for all the resources I've played it all the way through from Tamriel to my last world space and it all looks good.

 

For a reality check I went to my esm before this last merge and LR.esp that hasn't changed and did the same thing to create a new temp2.esp. That makes me think it has to be something in TempWork2 that is screwing up my new merged esm. However, when I don't have LR.esp checked then I can save a new temp3.esp so somehow the content of TempWork2 is stepping on the toes of LR.esp, maybe. However, what can be wrong with the new merged esm when it's working fine in the game. I've done the quick clean with tes4Edit 4.0.3 and it removed a few things but that hasn't made a difference. It doesn't seem like just one fatal mistake it seems like something fundamental to me.

 

One thing I don't understand is that TempWork2 is about 2.5 MB but the increased size of the esm is only 0.7 MB when merged. There must be logical reason since it works in the game.

 

One thing about modding Oblivion is you get a heightened appreciation for the great work that's been done.

 

Thanks

[GamerRick]

Are you starting the CS with OBSE and using the Extender? If not, you will encounter many such problems, all fixed by the CSE.

[chambcra]

No, this problem is with the standard CS. Using the CSE a save is made but then using that save and going back to the standard CS it still crashes so I'm thinking there is an error in my work that may haunt me down the road. I may have to use the CSE for the rest of the project but I'd hate to find out a couple years later "Rats this ain't gonna work because of that mistake I made back in 23." I've gone through the entire list of bugs fixed in the CSE and there's no mention of anything like this.

Thanks

Edited August 31, 2023 by chambcra

[RomanR]

Unfortunately after some tests I can't reproduce your problem even if I make duplicate and conflicting records on purpose. What tool did you used for converting to esm and merging esp? I used TES4Gecko version 15.2 - I don't have CS Extender so I don't know if Extender covers these tasks too.

[GamerRick]

I got many crashes before the Oblivion CS Extender came and ran into the same problems with trying to edit ESM's or make an ESP dependent on another ESP. However, I have also modded FO3, FNV, and Skyrim, had pretty much the same problems with all of them, and I can't exactly remember what problems were unique to each of them or common among them. I do know for a fact though that the CSE hardly ever crashes on me, whereas the CS did all the time. I have many of my own ESPs that are dependent on many others (like patches I make to make one of my mods work with COBL and OOO). I can edit an ESP and save it without having to clean it or redate it.

 

I couldn't imagine modding this game without it.