For animations, what is the difference between FNIS/Nemesis and OAR Open Animation Replacer (rewrite of DAR)?

[szmnozi]

So Nemesis is a better kind of FNIS, and OAR is a better kind of DAR?

But I read their entire descriptions and none seem to mention the other (kind).

Are these two competing ways to animate characters or can you combine them or did I misunderstand something completely?

 

[PrimitivexFuture]

Nemesis and FNIS basically do the same thing, with the exception that FNIS is the only one of the two that has creature compatibility.

DAR is the outdated version of OAR. You shouldn't be using DAR anymore, as any mod that used DAR will run with OAR.

Nemesis and FNIS are generally used for things like combat animations and new behaviors. As well as most NSFW animation mods.

OAR does a bit of both. Most of my idle animations, like weapon stance, sitting, etc... are run through OAR.

It can be a bit confusing when you first get into it.

 

Basically, Nemesis and FNIS change behaviors, which allows you to create NEW animations more freely. Things like dodging and True Direction Movement use Nemesis. These are things that weren't possible in the base game, so they require the Nemesis/FNIS engine to tell them where to go and how to act in the game.

OAR allows you to set conditions on animations.

Say you downloaded a new idle animation that has the player character rest their hand on their hip when standing still.

You can now go into OAR and set the condition for how often that happens, if it will fully replace the vanilla idle animation, or if it will play alongside it.

 

This can all get to be a little confusing because while both Nemesis/FNIS and OAR do similar things, the way they execute them is different. If you are going to be modding a bit, you will probably end up needing both. My best advice is to make sure that you read about them both on their respective mod pages, and get yourself a good mod manager. Many people recommend Mod Manager 2, I personally use Vortex, but it is up to your discretion.

Just make sure that whenever you are testing out new mods that you create a clean save for testing purposes, so you don't end up borking your save file.

In short, it would be a good idea to download both Nemesis and OAR if you plan to replace animations and add new combat behaviors.

I'm sure somebody else with better knowledge on the inner workings of these can give you a much better and detailed explanation. I'm just sharing with you what I've learned from my relatively short modding journey.

Cheers!

[scorrp10]

The distinction is simple.    FNIS or Nemesis are tools for adding entirely new animation events to the game.    I.e. if your script has: 
Debug.SendAnimationEvent(actor, "AnimationEventName"),  Skyrim's animation database must contain "AnimationEventName"  string key,   linking it to a particular .hkx file.    FNIS and Nemesis add new items to this database, thus allowing definition of entirely new animation events.

DAR/OAR allow  redirection of existing animation events, so that they use a different hkx file, based on specific conditions.

I.e. in vanilla animation DB, the "ChairIdle" animation event for female actors links to  meshes/actors/character/animations/female/chair_idlebasevar1.hkx

DAR or OAR, when certain conditions are satisfied, might use a different .hkx file when a "ChairIdle"  animation is invoked.
 

 

[szmnozi]

On 5/24/2024 at 8:45 PM, scorrp10 said:

The distinction is simple. ...

 

Wow thank you guys, that makes it real clear, I wonder why they can't write this stuff on the description pages.

Half the nightmare of modding is that these mod authors act like all the other mods don't exist or we're supposed to know all this when we search for something and get like 10 different "must haves" for one single type of thing.

 

 

[WaxenFigure]

I think it should be pointed out that Pandora now replaces both FNIS and Nemesis both.  Just as OAR replaces DAR but also adds new features and options Pandora replaces Nemesis by both including the creatures that Nemesis ignored AND extends and improves the options available for animators.

Note that while it's still marked as "beta" so were FNIS and Nemesis.  What's really nice is that it's blazingly fast too, it runs in seconds instead of minutes. 

Search for "Skyrim Pandora GITHUB" to find it.

Note: I know that FNIS is no longer being updated and I think Nemesis has also reached the end of development while Pandora is actively being updated so you may want to watch the GITHUB site for new releases.

[Karna5]

6 hours ago, WaxenFigure said:

I think it should be pointed out that Pandora now replaces both FNIS and Nemesis both.

I've never seen Pandora released on Nexus Mods or Loverslab. I'm unlikely to switch from Nemesis to Pandora unless there's an easy to track mod site where it can be found. I'd prefer Nexus as it has better tracking, but github is too awkward for me to use more than a few times a decade.

[Moksha8088]

Some mods are designed to use specific animations.  For instance, I have two mods designed to use hugging based on FNIS.  I love those hugs.

[fraquar]

On 5/31/2024 at 9:42 PM, szmnozi said:

Wow thank you guys, that makes it real clear, I wonder why they can't write this stuff on the description pages.

Half the nightmare of modding is that these mod authors act like all the other mods don't exist or we're supposed to know all this when we search for something and get like 10 different "must haves" for one single type of thing.

 

 

If you read the description on those pages - it tells you what they do.   They wrote what you are asking for.

FNIS SE:   

Quote

FNIS Behaviors allows other mods to add different types of animations to the game: idles/poses, sequenced, arm offset, furniture, and paired animations, killmoves, and creature animations.

OAR:

Quote

A SKSE framework plugin that replaces animations depending on configurable conditions.

Take your time to READ the friendly description pages - as both of those mod authors took considerable time to explain what their Mod/Utility does and how it functions.

Kudos to those mod authors BTW.

  

[Karna5]

1 hour ago, fraquar said:

as both of those mod authors took considerable time to explain what their Mod/Utility does and how it functions.

Speaking of OAR and how to use it, there's one thing I spent several hours across weeks trying to figure out in OAR and couldn't find in any documentation or tutorials. I wanted to preview animations so I could eliminate one I didn't like from the Dynamic Random Female Idles (OAR) mod. I loved all of the animations but one, but the one I didn't like played more than 1/4 of the time.

In tutorials for OAR and in the posts it said you can preview animations, but I couldn't get the preview button to show up. And I didn't want to eliminate the wrong animation.

Yesterday I figured out that to get the preview button to show up you must first select yourself as a target (prid 14).

Once you're selected, when you browse the animations you get a preview button, and from there it's easy to make any changes you want.

But none of the tutorials and none of the posts on that mod page I found actually tell you that you must select yourself to get that button.