A Middle Earth based mod for Oblivon?

[Rapishorrid]

First - NO I am not asking the MEMod crew to make a middle earth mod for oblivion.

 

Alright, now that that's out of the way. I was really into MEMod back when it was at it's prime and then when it reached its end. Basically what I am saying is I wanted to see Middle Earth transferred into a game...correctly. So far that hasn't been done. As news and media releases for Oblivion filled the internet, I saw this game, or rather engine, as the perfect oppurtunity for a Middle Earth Total Conversion mod.

 

So what I am suggesting is for a Middle Earth Modification to be made for Oblivion. The copyright/Tolkien Estate issues can be put aside as it will take on a similar distribution method as AME is going to use. Those who contribute ideas will get it (thus registering on the "forum" and posting will grant you access. For you did contribute.) Or if that is rejected by the copyright issues, it will remain a private mod for distribution among ourselves and select people (who helped with the mod).

 

The entire point of this post I guess is to ask for a leader for this mod and to really get it started. I don't really see myself leading a mod, because I am a 3d modeler. The mod will stay as close as possible to the world Tolkien's literature depicts and not stray afar for the sake of entertainment such as Peter Jackson's movie's did. So if there's someone willing to lead..speak up and this mod can start recruiting. As for me I won't be able to play Oblivion until probably Christmas time ( computer upgrades ) so I will mainly help whoever is in charge of the mod with administration and things.

 

I chose here to ask for a leader for this mod because I found this to be the most intellectual, not "YO STFU NOOBS!!!!!!11!" forum around. That was back when I visited (mwsource.com), and I find many of the same people are still here so it seems it's preserved it's integrity. :D

[ThetaOrionis01]

The copyright/Tolkien Estate issues can be put aside as it will take on a similar distribution method as AME is going to use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No, they can not be put aside. Without a licence from the Tolkien Estate, any Middle-Earth mod is in violation of copyright, and therefore at risk of being shut down and the devs potentially at risk of legal action.

 

Before you even think about starting a Middle-earth mod, get the proper licences.

[suzerain]

he copyright/Tolkien Estate issues can be put aside as it will take on a similar distribution method as AME is going to use

 

AME's distribution method is, at best, ropey, and at worst, completely illegal. I still admire their nerve for being willing to risk the effects if it does get picked up by the Saul Zaenetz corporation.

 

honsetly, such a scale of work is, also monstrous- with the added quality of graphical effects in oblivion, it'd be hell to actually come close to producing it, and you'd need at least 200 members on the team, all pulling their weight.

 

frankly, middle earth is too big for a mod - focus on a region, at most, not an entire world. We learnt from memod that such a vast scale of geography and range of cultures is almost impossible to produce. Save your sanity, and focus small.

 

on the other hand, I'm personally tempted to think about a small, contained conversion, to create a Discworld mod. the streets of ankh-morpork, the Ramtops, Uberwald, and possibly a few of the other outlying areas. something that will make people laugh and groan.

unlike middle earth, which will only make the producers cry and groan.

[Rapishorrid]

if it does get picked up by the Saul Zaenetz corporation.

What about the Saul Zaenetz corp.? I haven't been following AME very closely, so I don't know much about it.

 

I think the problem here is that I don't fully understand the entire legality, or rather illegality of the production of such a mod.

 

I understand that yes, making a mod using their copyrighted material is against their "policies" whether it's profit or non-profit. But...why? What kind of copyright is that? To me (though I am probably completely mistaken) that's like Microsoft having some sort of copyright on their name so you can't say it to other people or write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone else (distributing it for non profit).

 

If someone could fully explain the nature of the copyright issues that MeMod faced, I'd be willing to accept that such a mod is futile.

[Peregrine]

What about the Saul Zaenetz corp.? I haven't been following AME very closely, so I don't know much about it.

 

They own the game rights to Tolkien's work. If they want a mod shut down, the mod team would have no choice but to obey.

 

I understand that yes, making a mod using their copyrighted material is against their "policies" whether it's profit or non-profit. But...why? What kind of copyright is that? To me (though I am probably completely mistaken) that's like Microsoft having some sort of copyright on their name so you can't say it to other people or write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone else (distributing it for non profit).

 

No, it would be like you ripping out half the code for windows, then using it in your own software project. You can say the name "Middle Earth", discuss it, etc. The copyright issue is because you're using someone else's creative work without their permission. The copyright to Tolkien's work covers more than just the exact words in the books. The setting, characters, etc, all are copyrighted. The use intended in MEMod (or any other similar project) goes way beyond what is covered by "fair use".

 

It's the same thing with any other mod based on someone else's material. All those projects are allowed to continue only because the copyright owner doesn't feel like ordering them shut down.

 

If someone could fully explain the nature of the copyright issues that MeMod faced, I'd be willing to accept that such a mod is futile.

 

The issue was simple, the team did not have permission to use the source material. While no legal threats were issued, the position was hopeless. The copyright holder could issue those threats at any time, and MEMod would have to be shut down. Any act of defiance would be taken to court, and it would be a textbook case of copyright infringement. The copyright holder would win easily, and MEMod's developers would risk fines. Rather than lose even more work when the shutdown order finally came, or risk fines for every member (more than enough to destroy every one of us), they made the decision to cancel the project.

[suzerain]

the short of it. in the late 1960's Tolien sold the full "electronic media rights" to the Saul Zaenetz corporation. (SZ)

 

Those rights have been defined by law to mean any electronic representation or recreation of the subject material of the rights. in this case, that means the full rights to the setting of middle-earth, and the content within. that LOTR, Hobbit, Silmarillion, and all other books.

 

it effectively means that they own the rights to use those creations, or lisence to people they allow to use them - in film, TV, radio play, computer game, virtual reality tour, hologram projector screens - any electronic media.

 

EA, and New Line Cinema, for instance, have had to buy the lisence to use the Intellectual property (IP) of middle-earth from SZ to ensure that they are legally iable to use it. SZ defend their IP right to the subject strongly, not least because any useage of the IP threatens the trade strength of the IP for future sales - nonprofit or for profit, each use devalues the IP rights. and as a result, a nonprofit request will not be accepted in any shape or form. trust me on that one. my phone bill was the proof of the negotiations I had to struggle through with their lawyers.

 

effectively, the first stage of copyright is that any reproduction of the IP must be within the permission of the rights holder. it's tht basic first stage of the process which you will not get around without breaking the law. AME's get-around is dodgy to say the least, and frankly, I doubt it'd hold up in court.

production of any items in violation of the rights gives the holders (SZ) the right to legal action to reclaim all losses incurred through the theft of their rights, in terms of losses of sales, devaluation of the rights, land of course, legal costs for the entire case.

in all situations, you're screwed if they even plant a cease and desist order on your team. if you've got any goals of working in the games industry, it's a bad way to get noticed...

 

I hope that's a suitable summary?

[Rapishorrid]

Suitable indeed.

 

Oh well, I am not sure what I will do, but I don't think I will abandon this just yet. Though right now there's really nothing at all that I can do, suffice it to say, I will sit and wait.

 

Maybe some years later when possibly things have changed, there will be a game...but not now.

 

Thanks for your time, I needn't waste it any further.

[suzerain]

those rights hae been held for nearly 38 years, and the copyright on the work will last another 40 or so...

 

don't hold your breath :(

[Rapishorrid]

So, there is no hope...

 

Unless of course EA suddenly becomes wonder-company and produces a game based in Middle Earth following the near exact description from Tolkien's works...

 

Oh my the realities of this so called "Game" industry.

[_Atti_]

i dont think oblivion is such a great opportunity to make a memod..

its render system which is hardcoded-i guess- just not feels like middle earth,and an editor-even with all the scripting options-is not enough for such a mod..but thats just my opinion..i wouldnt again start on it without a full sdk supported engine