Americans

[Balagor]

Now we have come to know each other should´n we go all the way with the profanyties, in order to stop them. This topic started out fairly civillized, now I read campaines about who supported who, who are the worst, who made more inventions etc, etc.

So lets go for the last profatinity; what we all share, the genicides, suppressing of others, stealing and plundering.

After all every American, Canadian, Aussie, Southamerican, African(white), and a few more I probably forgot, are Europeans, just like me. Even Denmark had colonies (vestindians), but sold them. All those nations originates from Europe, they have one thing in common, they have slaugthered innoncents, to gain land. So now please brothers and sisters, shake hands, we do have a lot in common :thumbsup:

[Maharg67]

Now we have come to know each other should´n we go all the way with the profanyties, in order to stop them. This topic started out fairly civillized, now I read campaines about who supported who, who are the worst, who made more inventions etc, etc.

So lets go for the last profatinity; what we all share, the genicides, suppressing of others, stealing and plundering.

After all every American, Canadian, Aussie, Southamerican, African(white), and a few more I probably forgot, are Europeans, just like me. Even Denmark had colonies (vestindians), but sold them. All those nations originates from Europe, they have one thing in common, they have slaugthered innoncents, to gain land. So now please brothers and sisters, shake hands, we do have a lot in common :thumbsup:

 

Well put, Balagor. :thanks:

[Maharg67]

Awh, ya spoiled it. I wanted to see the Canadian version of how Woodrow Wilson freed the African-American slaves during the Korean War.

 

EDIT: and case in point that non-Americans don't have a freak'n clue as to what is 'best' for America. If you don't live here or if you're not an American then you have squat/zero/zed/nil say in American affairs.

 

I now return you to our regularly scheduled program, 'Die America, Die.'

 

Just repeating myself but am not sure why I bother. The USA has so much influence on the world and spends so much time interfering in the affairs of others, that it is only reasonable that non-Americans have at least some influence on what the USA does.

 

And non-Americans do not need to get permission from Americans to do this.

 

Also Americans, through your government, have a right to have some influence on other nations because no nation can now survive in isolation and for world wide safety there needs to be at least a reasonable balance of transparency, of international diplomacy and other processes.

 

As for 'Die America, Die', I am afraid that is just typical American right wing paranoia at work. Non-Americans are mostly too busy dealing with their (our) own lives and often dealing with each other to even bother thinking such sentiments. As an Australian I don't get up in the morning thinking 'how can I undermine the American way of life today'. No, I normally think something like, "First exercises and then a nice cup of tea will do nicely'.

 

PS: Do some research on CIA operations around the world, including in Australia, and you will maybe have some appreciation for my point of view even if you do not agree with it.

[Kendo 2]

Can you make up your mind? Either your are interested and THINK you should have a say.

 

that it is only reasonable that non-Americans have at least some influence on what the USA does. And non-Americans do not need to get permission from Americans to do this.

 

OR you're not interested and don't think about it.

 

I don't get up in the morning thinking 'how can I undermine the American way of life today'. No, I normally think something like, "First exercises and then a nice cup of tea will do nicely'.

 

You're contradicting your Marxist self.

 

This 'debate' is simply pointless and going in circles. The only people you guys are 'convincing' are one another of things you already believe to be true. That's not a debate, that's a hate rally. I'll leave it to you wise non-Americans (who profess not to care) to resolve all of our evils for us.

[Aurielius]

@Mahargo67

"Just repeating myself but am not sure why I bother. The USA has so

much influence on the world and spends so much time interfering in the

affairs of others, that it is only reasonable that non-Americans have

at least some influence on what the USA does."

 

Yes, if you are alluding to referential influence, but the only real

influence that counts is the ability to vote internally which you don't

have. Kendo 2, is I believe simply tired of the usual anti-American

bashing that has more vitriol than logic, generally promulgated by

young passionate but not experienced members. Complacent assurance of

one's knowledge of the 'Truth" is generally a youthful vice. All truth

is subjective, there are few if any absolutes in reality.

 

 

@Lord Syther

"No, nothing's gonna end anyway, it's either some changes in the

governments soon, or 2nd degree depression of chaos. The only thing

would bring countries to an end, or by that time, the whole world would

end. It takes 20 nukes for global Armageddon. Then once the nuclear

winter ends, the human race would be exterminated, along with any

living life, or in that case irradiated, I do not know the specifics or

the outcome of nuclear war. In fact, no country's ever gonna end from

what I see."

 

How to say this politely....you show remarkable ignorance of modern

warfare. A Global Thermonuclear War of extinction would require

hundreds of detonations, modern weapons have a drastically reduced

radius of destruction compared with the 60's, lower radiation yields

and shorter half lives of radioactive decay. Suggest you read Liddel

Hart (British War College author) if you want to have a grounded basis

of debate.Still Global Thermonuclear War is an alternative most

rational people would prefer to avoid at all hazards. Extinction is a natural process,

we would be unique only in that it would be self inflicted. Only the arrogance of man

assumes that he has perpetual rights to this planet.

 

“Man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins

because he had achieved so much...the wheel, New York, wars and so

on...while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water

having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed

that they were far more intelligent than man...for precisely the same

reason.” -Douglas Adams

 

The essence of this thread practically dares Americans to defend their

country, don't be surprised when they do. I have spent lifetime

defending my country, so I might be little more sanguine in my

assessment of what is an attack versus a debate point. Debating I

welcome ,that leads to understanding. Baseless attacks not supported by

facts I reserve the right to respond to. I have few illusions about my

or other countries righteous occupation of the moral high ground.

Though the concept of self justified right to pass moral judgments I

find amusing, what exactly are the terms of your enfranchisement?

 

Lastly, there have been a few rational debaters, my thanks to them for

trying to be balanced, otherwise I would have ditched this thread weeks

ago as pointless.

[Balagor]

@Mahargo67

"Just repeating myself but am not sure why I bother. The USA has so

much influence on the world and spends so much time interfering in the

affairs of others, that it is only reasonable that non-Americans have

at least some influence on what the USA does."

 

Yes, if you are alluding to referential influence, but the only real

influence that counts is the ability to vote internally which you don't

have. Kendo 2, is I believe simply tired of the usual anti-American

bashing that has more vitriol than logic, generally promulgated by

young passionate but not experienced members. Complacent assurance of

one's knowledge of the 'Truth" is generally a youthful vice. All truth

is subjective, there are few if any absolutes in reality.

 

 

@Lord Syther

"No, nothing's gonna end anyway, it's either some changes in the

governments soon, or 2nd degree depression of chaos. The only thing

would bring countries to an end, or by that time, the whole world would

end. It takes 20 nukes for global Armageddon. Then once the nuclear

winter ends, the human race would be exterminated, along with any

living life, or in that case irradiated, I do not know the specifics or

the outcome of nuclear war. In fact, no country's ever gonna end from

what I see."

 

How to say this politely....you show remarkable ignorance of modern

warfare. A Global Thermonuclear War of extinction would require

hundreds of detonations, modern weapons have a drastically reduced

radius of destruction compared with the 60's, lower radiation yields

and shorter half lives of radioactive decay. Suggest you read Liddel

Hart (British War College author) if you want to have a grounded basis

of debate.Still Global Thermonuclear War is an alternative most

rational people would prefer to avoid at all hazards. Extinction is a natural process,

we would be unique only in that it would be self inflicted. Only the arrogance of man

assumes that he has perpetual rights to this planet.

 

“Man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins

because he had achieved so much...the wheel, New York, wars and so

on...while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water

having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed

that they were far more intelligent than man...for precisely the same

reason.” -Douglas Adams

 

The essence of this thread practically dares Americans to defend their

country, don't be surprised when they do. I have spent lifetime

defending my country, so I might be little more sanguine in my

assessment of what is an attack versus a debate point. Debating I

welcome ,that leads to understanding. Baseless attacks not supported by

facts I reserve the right to respond to. I have few illusions about my

or other countries righteous occupation of the moral high ground.

Though the concept of self justified right to pass moral judgments I

find amusing, what exactly are the terms of your enfranchisement?

 

Lastly, there have been a few rational debaters, my thanks to them for

trying to be balanced, otherwise I would have ditched this thread weeks

ago as pointless.

 

Nice to see that some still can find the essence of the thread :)

[Kendo 2]

@Aurielius,

The vast majority of the posts in this thread are anti-American in nature. They are fueled by misinformed reactionary and emotional elements. Half-truths and open contempt for America and Americans creeps into their posts. The gist of their posts are 'Americans are dumb and they don't know what's best for them.' Being an American automatically disqualifies anything I post as being rightwing, even thought I am politically neutral.

 

Both you and Trandoshan are the exceptions, along with a few others. I don't mean any offense to you guys or those who do not share my views but post with reason and factual information. I respect that, but the balance is a joke. The posts don't contain cohesive thoughts and are about as organized as a monkey dung fight at the zoo.

 

"The truth hurts, man."

Hunter S. Thompson

[Trandoshan]

The essence of this thread practically dares Americans to defend their

country, don't be surprised when they do.

 

Yes, sir. I have had to hold my flame-thrower back on multiple occasions, and post something stupid in order to maintain fairness and equality.

 

 

How to say this politely....you show remarkable ignorance of modern

warfare. A Global Thermonuclear War of extinction would require

hundreds of detonations, modern weapons have a drastically reduced

radius of destruction compared with the 60's, lower radiation yields

and shorter half lives of radioactive decay.

 

Stop right there, my friend. You missed something big.

 

I agree that nuclear warfare is localized in this day, but you realize that after the collapse of the soviet empire that they began giving their nukes away? America and the civilized European nations may have perfected contained bombs, but those vicious little countries out east do not. They have 60's technology, and whose to say they won't use it? Of course, who cares really. Our 'localized' bombs still have the potential for mutual destruction in that case.

 

Oh dear, there goes my silly 'American' head. I nearly went on to say that terrorists have no way to get localized nukes, only the crap 60's ones from Russia...

 

 

 

 

 

"The truth hurts, man."

Hunter S. Thompson

 

 

Oh yeah? Well...

 

 

 

Relevant, as it is a stupid American joke... :woot:

[Maharg67]

Can you make up your mind? Either your are interested and THINK you should have a say.

 

that it is only reasonable that non-Americans have at least some influence on what the USA does. And non-Americans do not need to get permission from Americans to do this.

 

OR you're not interested and don't think about it.

 

I don't get up in the morning thinking 'how can I undermine the American way of life today'. No, I normally think something like, "First exercises and then a nice cup of tea will do nicely'.

 

You're contradicting your Marxist self.

 

This 'debate' is simply pointless and going in circles. The only people you guys are 'convincing' are one another of things you already believe to be true. That's not a debate, that's a hate rally. I'll leave it to you wise non-Americans (who profess not to care) to resolve all of our evils for us.

 

You have taken just small parts out of my post, out of context, and presented them in a biased fashion. Because of that you have misrepresented me, making me out to be some kind of wishy washy non-American fool. Anybody can play this game. It is boring and meaningless but can also be dangerous. The news media does it all the time, either right or left wing. As I have constantly stated, I am a former Marxist as in I AM NO LONGER A MARXIST so it appears you can not read very well.

 

I agree about the debate becoming 'pointless and going in circles' but people like you are just as biased as anybody else. Please climb off your pedastal. This is no hate rally. As an Australian I am more concerned about Indonesia to our north, with its extreme Islamic influences, than I am about the USA but I do not hate them or the USA.

 

In my writing I am trying to play it fair, trying to concede certain points, but you seem to take this as a kind of 'weakness'. Perhaps I could present my opinions better except that lately I have been rethinking my politics and my posts reflect that. Not that I will ever believe all of what you do. I see American right wing beliefs as being often distorted, self centred and extreme but have come to believe the same about many extreme left wing beliefs.

 

You have a way of pressing my buttons that seems to bring the worst out of me so that I have to take time calming down before I answer. Truth is I like many American ideals, I like the concept of reasonable self defence, of freedom of speach and fair representation in government especially when it comes to the spending of taxes taken from the people. Perhaps you could take this out of context also.

 

I will not be posting in this debate any more because it is very close to turning into a flame war.

[Trandoshan]

 

You have taken just small parts out of my post, out of context, and presented them in a biased fashion. Because of that you have misrepresented me, making me out to be some kind of wishy washy non-American fool. Anybody can play this game. It is boring and meaningless but can also be dangerous. The news media does it all the time, either right or left wing. As I have constantly stated, I am a former Marxist as in I AM NO LONGER A MARXIST so it appears you can not read very well.

 

I will not be posting in this debate any more because it is very close to turning into a flame war.

 

No need to leave. We aren't all against Marxism. I'm just against the Communist regurgitation of Marxism. Carl Marx had many good points on how the world is run by money, and how it takes a rich man to be in power.

 

I do love my capitalism, as it allows me to aspire to be rich. I guess that's the best part of it all. In truth, Capitalism wants the consumer to be stupid. I takes a special push to make someone wise enough to see through it. Same way it takes a Former-Marxist to give up his Marxist ways. Kudos if I could give Kudos ATM....

 

Cheers to America!