idea assassin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 First, Evolution of not a proven fact...it is a theory. Which is why it is known as 'The Theory of Evolution.' Is it a probable theory? Sure. Has it been proven 100% to be true? Nope. No one has ever found 100% undisputable proof that anything evolved from anything else. Not a shred. Hell, we've only known about the concept for a little over a hundred years, which is a blink of the eye on the evolutionary scale. Secondly, the Big Bang theory has never been proven either. Its also a theory. I tend to wonder why everything is moving away from us. Are we the center of the universe? If we're not it stands to reason some things should be moving toward us, but I've never heard of anyone mention that. Again are these theories probable? They'll do for now. Truth is, nobody really knows anymore about anything now than they ever have, in terms of how/why we are here. We have lots of theories and guesses and shots in the dark. But no real proof. We don't even have any real proof that our dating methods are 100% accurate. How do we know how long it takes a carbon molecule to degrade? Nobody's ever sat down for 200,000 years and timed it, as far as I know. If they have I'd love to meet this aged individual. I also have no problem reconciling the Creation story with the Big Bang or evolution. Perhaps He created the universe via a Big Bang. It's at least as viable hypothesis as the universe just appearing out of nothing. Matter can be neither created nor destroyed, only changed into some other form. So where did the matter come from? Things don't just appear out of nothing. That's one of those scientific laws you guys are throwing around. Just as the religion side is taking it on faith that God created the universe, the big bangers/atheists are taking it on faith that He didn't. Bottom line is, we don't know, we never will know. The universe is here. That's the only undisputable fact (unless you want to get into the whole metaphysical 'are we really here?' argument, which I don't...lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Well, as for carbon dating - if you take 200000 atoms you only have to sit around for one year and wait for one of them to decay. :PRadioactive decay does not mean that after a certain time span all nuclei of that isotope will have decayed, but that that after a given timespan - the half life - half the nuclei in a given volume of the radioactive material will have decayed. As I said before - the something from nothing is quantum mechanically possible, and at the scales we're talking about at the beginning of the universe quantum mechanics is THE dominant principle. Amongst all the laws of physics quantum mechanics is the one which is most widely accepted as true - I don't think any experimental data have been found which negate or violate the laws of quantum mechanics. If you accept that any of the laws of physics as proven, then you have to accept that quantum mechanics is proven. The universe is expanding - things are not moving away from us, everything is moving away from everything else. There are small exceptions to this where due to mutual gravitational attraction galaxies may form clusters and move towards each other - but the cluster in itself will move away from all other clusters. Yeah- we don't know what caused the Big Bang - but all current research findings (for instance projects mapping the cosmic microwave background) seem to support the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idea assassin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 You seem to be lumping the big bang and evolution together. Background microwave radiation doesn't have anything to do with evolution. And you're correct that quantum mechanics can be used to explain the something from nothing theory...but I don't accept quantum theory as proven either. There's a reason they call all this stuff 'theories.' None of it is proven. I also don't buy the fact that we KNOW everything is expanding from everything else. All we KNOW is that every is expanding away from US. We don't really know what the heck is goin on out there. I've even heard theories that the universe is crashing in on itself, heading for the Big Crunch. Nobody really knows. All we know is that we're here and stuff is happening out there. My only real argument with anything on this debate is the absolute trust...call it faith...of science and that the scientific view is correct and religion is rubbish and people are idiots for believing it. Truth is, my faith in God would not be altered one bit if big bang, big crunch, evolution, whatever was proven 100%. All it would tell me is God created quantum mechanics when he created something from nothing. Of course, none of that will ever be proven one way or another in our lifetimes, so it's really a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 If you accept the Big Bang theory - which I do -, how would you get from elementary particles to human beings without evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltiraaz Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 This will be interesting. I would say.... that elementary particles could be the "dust" that God created Adam out of. I mean, if the authors of the bible wrote, "and He took elementary particles and breathed life into them.." how would the Judeo-Christians understand it?? :P I really don't know though, just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idea assassin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Like I said, evolution being proven wouldn't shake my faith at all. The Bible doesn't go into a great deal of detail on HOW God made what he did. It just says he did. If he wanted to use evolution to do so, I'm sure He could. I've always been of the opinion that the Creation chapters of Genesis was put into terms that man was capable of understanding a couple thousand years ago. For all I know, each 'day' mentioned in Genesis could have lasted millions of years. I tend to think of the 6 days of Creation as 6 time periods, not literal 24 hour days. As a side note, if you can accept the doctrine of the universe being created from nothing, via the big bang, is it really such a huge stretch that it could have been created by SOMEONE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Where would the someone have come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maquissar Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 A time-traveller perhaps, coming from a time when matter already existed? ;) lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idea assassin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Where would the someone have come from? Well now we're getting into the crux of the matter. Who says God had to come from anywhere? He just is. We are trapped in our assumption that EVERYTHING has to have a beginning and an end, because that's our only frame of reference. But the Creator isn't bound by our limitations, not bound by time or space. He doens't have to have a beginning or an end. To Him, it's now, last week, 2 million years ago, and 10 million years in the future all at the same time, IMO. But that's getting into another whole topic of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 That's exactly the same point as the 'something from nothing' debate. At least quantum mechanics explains how something may come from nothing rather than making assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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