Rating Mods

[Netwit2008]

Ok, first off, if this topic is out of line, I trust one of our talented moderators to either move or delete it.

Second- I'm not writing to start a war, lol I really and truly have a question about this and have always been puzzled by it, often irritated as well.

 

In our mod rating system, one can either endorse or not endorse a mod. I see mods not being endorsed because-

a. the mod did not fit the user's "personal" tastes, morals, standards, etc.

b. the mod did not fit the user's "personal" high quality standards

c. the user could not get the mod to work (of course barring any missing files, but there is a category for that, and rightly so).

 

I understand not endorsing a mod because there are important files missing, it conflicts with other major mods (there are too many little ones to ensure one's mod doesn't conflict with nothing at all), or it simply doesn't work due to poor execution, code/script problems, missing meshes/textures, etc. It's the other categories I marvel at.

 

What if a user simply is new to modding and has not read the many wonderful posts and resources here to teach one how to do it properly. Ok, they try someone's well done mod, but because THEY didn't do what they needed to do, the modder pays for it with a funky endorsement? :confused:

 

Also, each person's tastes are subjective. Unless you have child porno (we've already debated this one, lol no need to again) or something equally heinous, why not deactivate and keep it moving if a mod you've downloaded does not meet your PERSONAL tastes or interests, morals, requirements, on and on and etc. How could modders be expected to know what your personal tastes and "high quality standards" are?? :huh:

 

Now don't get it twisted, I'm not talking about poorly made mods, those should have some kind of way to be identified and not endorsed. But I've seen some really good work given negative endorsements because of user inexperience, or personal preference. You have all the right in the world not to like or enjoy a mod, I'm just saying, why does that go against the person who made the mod? If you don't mind my saying so, your personal preference, your personal problem. Don't take it out on the modder, again......just deactivate, delete, keep it moving to something you like better.

 

I dunno, seems the "do unto others and give credit where credit is due" applies. Maybe YOU don't like the mod, but many others do. Does it deserve a thumbs down JUST because you didn't "like" it?

 

Ok, rant off, lol This just kind of bugs me. I see hard working modders that don't get enough credit as it is. I just think some of the thumbs down are for invalid reasons, IMHO of course.

 

What are some others' views on this, or is it just me, cause I never dismiss the possibility that it could be :cool: Like I said, it's something that has puzzled/bothered me for a long time.

[Vagrant0]

Moved to site feedback since it concerns the rating system used around the whole site. It's been discussed to death, but so long as people are civil, maybe something could improve.

 

No system is perfect, and although there are some issues that can arise from the current one, it's better than what we had before. There's really no way to screen out user ignorance.

 

Maybe having the ability for people to go back and change their own ratings might allow for people to change their minds. But, even then people rarely check back on mods they've already voted for; so maybe there needs to be some sort of notification system to let people know that a mod they've voted for has been updated. But again, wouldn't really solve anything in the long run, would be too much hassle for both the user and to be implemented.

 

There really isn't any easy solution since there will always be people who will rate a mod poorly just because they didn't bother to read the readme file, or somehow object to the content of the mod.

 

Ultimately, what matters is not the 2 or 3 bad ratings a file gets, but rather how many good ratings a file gets that matters. The problem is in encouraging people to go back and rate the files they download. Usually people only bother to vote or comment on those files they can't get working, which skews most of the uncommon mods a bit.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Vagrant0

[Netwit2008]

Moved to site feedback since it concerns the rating system used around the whole site. It's been discussed to death, but so long as people are civil, maybe something could improve.

 

No system is perfect, and although there are some issues that can arise from the current one, it's better than what we had before. There's really no way to screen out user ignorance.

 

Maybe having the ability for people to go back and change their own ratings might allow for people to change their minds. But, even then people rarely check back on mods they've already voted for; so maybe there needs to be some sort of notification system to let people know that a mod they've voted for has been updated. But again, wouldn't really solve anything in the long run, would be too much hassle for both the user and to be implemented.

 

There really isn't any easy solution since there will always be people who will rate a mod poorly just because they didn't bother to read the readme file, or somehow object to the content of the mod.

 

Ultimately, what matters is not the 2 or 3 bad ratings a file gets, but rather how many good ratings a file gets that matters. The problem is in encouraging people to go back and rate the files they download. Usually people only bother to vote or comment on those files they can't get working, which skews most of the uncommon mods a bit.

 

Thanks for moving Vagrant. And also congrats on your new moderator status!

 

You make some good points. I like the suggestion of being able to go back and change the rating, but I can imagine the nightmare that might prove to be in trying to execute such a system. I think the best advice to go by at this point is to remember-

Ultimately, what matters is not the 2 or 3 bad ratings a file gets, but rather how many good ratings a file gets that matters.

 

I know that's what I look for. The negatives don't really mean much to me, depending on what they're for and how many there are. So again, good point and well said.

 

And yes, I do think it's a shame more people don't rate at all. I can imagine how it might be disheartening to some modders to see mega views and downloads, but only one or two ratings on a mod they've spent countless hours building. I hope more folks will use this as perhaps food for thought in how they rate and as you say, change just might be possible with civil discussion and more pondering on how we do things now.

[Micko]

I can imagine how it might be disheartening to some modders to see mega views and downloads, but only one or two ratings on a mod they've spent countless hours building.

 

Possibly so but there's that old saying "no news is good news" if they apply that after getting lots of views/DLs but not much feedback then I guess they can assume people like the mod.

[myrmaad]

We have the functionality to Re-Rate now, already.

 

Since I try to rate a lot of my downloads, after I try them, I do sometimes go back to see what I wrote if it's been a long time.

 

Even before we changed to the Endorsement system, I tried to always give a high value rating, if I was bothering to rate a file.

 

There are plenty of files that I will not rate, not because of personal taste but because of the quality of the mod, and that is my own personal endorsement standard.

 

Admittedly there are some mods that I rated highly before I knew how to mod, that actually have dirty edits, things that I would probably consider an "endorsement breaker" now, but that I enjoyed nonetheless, so I've left those endorsements.

 

If I got pleasure out of a mod, no matter how simple it is, or even if it has some flaws, I tend to think it deserves my endorsement.

 

 

But as to your argument about personal taste, I may not endorse a mod that is not to my personal taste (sometimes I will though), and I would not downrate a mod because it is not to my personal taste, but I often endorse a mod that is to my personal taste. This is what most people tend to do, I think, and it makes a difficult double standard, I also think.

Edited November 25, 2009 by myrmaad

[bben46]

Begin rant: :whistling:

 

What you are asking is that everyone who rates adhere to your personal high standards, that everybody who rates use some common sense, that NO one should down rate a mod for reasons that you personally consider wrong.

 

Good thoughts. :thumbsup: However, not everyone has high standards - or standards at all. The same goes for common sense (What's so common about common sense? :D ). Many of our members seemingly have neither. As seen on the old rating system: 'I rate this mod a 1 because I don't like it. And It doesn't work on my game. Somebody please tell me how to make it work. BTW I got a xbox'. (Spelling corrected to make it legible) :wallbash:

 

And on the other hand: 'Wow, this mod looks great. I don't have a PC, but I will give it a 10 anyway. Just because of the great looking babe in the screenie.' Of course, the modder would not report this one and the bogus 10 would remain. :down:

 

Today, neither one of these would likely get as far as rating at all :no: Mainly because of the 3 hour wait. He would loose interest and go play his kiddie games. ;)

 

However, the modder would demand that a moderator remove that rating, and we would. We removed many ridiculous ratings on a daily basis. When the new system was introduced, we agreed that removing ratings would be very rare, and only for extraordinary reasons. And that I don't like it for whatever reason is not an extraordinary reason.

 

The old rating system became a competition, not for the best mods, but for the best ratings! We were getting requests from modders to remove ratings of 9 because it would ruin their perfect 10 rating.

 

Some people may just look at the numbers "Wow, this mod had 43 thumbs up and 3 thumbs down, it must not be very good because 3 people out of 46 didn't like it." They are missing the entire point of ratings. If the mod had 6 thumbs up and 3 down, then I would suspect maybe it had problems. But I would first look to see what people actually said about it and make up my own mind. That's why there is a category - the mod did not fit the user's "personal" tastes, morals, standards, etc. This allows them to express their opinion without going off on a rant about their personal taste. (they can still rant in the comments though) :wacko: And, the negative ratings DO NOT COUNT toward any of the rankings. :thumbsup: You could actually have more thumbs down than thumbs up and still make the top lists! :yes: Not very likely to happen though.

 

End rant :cool:

[Dark0ne]

BBen pretty much summed it up perfectly.

 

Off-topic: BBen :excl: , are :happy: you :mellow: going :happy: for :rolleyes: the ;) record o_O for 8) maximum :D number :bunny: of :ermm: smileys :drag: used :blush: in :P a :turned: post? :huh:

 

 

:D

[bben46]

I forgot about the rabbit. :whistling:

[LHammonds]

:whistling: :thumbsup: :biggrin: :blink: :smile: :wacko: ;D :P

 

Ok, now that I got my e-cons out-the-way, the rating system is just one part of the overall picture that a mod page can show.

 

Anyone relying on just one factor to judge the quality of a mod is not using "common" sense. Picking favorite mods or simply liking a mod is a very personal choice and experience which may not be anywhere close to the next person that tries it. Things such as the category that a mod resides in, the subject matter, who made the mod, how the mod was made, what all is in the mod, how long it takes to play the mod, age of the mod, amount of downloads, amount of votes, amount of comments (positive and negative), number of revisions made to the mod, how many translations have been made, amount of requirements, quality of packaging, quality of description, amount of support by the author/community, file mirrors/screenshots/videos provided, search tags set, etc.

 

All of these things and more help somebody determine if a particular mod is worthy of an endorsement. And each of those things I listed have a different amount of importance from one person to another.

 

If an author of a mod wants specific feedback to improve their mod, I have always suggested that they build a questionnaire form to help guide players with their feedback based on what the author feels is important...rather than leaving it up to a simply thumbs up/down and empty comment form which is sometimes itself hard for people to find a starting place.

 

Example:

 

Based on the mod page, did you find what you expected when you played the mod? ___ Yes, ___ No

Did you find the mod entertaining and worth the download? ___ Yes, ___ No

Is this a mod you intend to keep installed? ___ Yes, ___ No

Is this a mod you would recommend to a friend? ___ Yes, ___ No

Were the enchantments appropriate for a level 20 character? ___ Yes, ___ No

Did you find this too easy to complete? ___ Yes, ___ No

 

The above could be placed in the description for players to copy/paste into their comments to let the author know their experience and specifically answer questions that the author is interested in. Obviously, questions would be very specific and unique to each author and mod...depending on what the author is interested in hearing about. I thought about adding something like this to my Readme Generator but it is far too personal and specific. I could have a thousand questions listed but it would take ya'll longer to go through what I have typed rather than coming up with questions on your own.

 

LHammonds

[Netwit2008]

:biggrin: Now see, that's why you guys are the "voices of reason" :whistling: Those are great explanations and things to think about when considering rating or not rating a mod :thumbsup:

 

If I got pleasure out of a mod, no matter how simple it is, or even if it has some flaws, I tend to think it deserves my endorsement.

 

But as to your argument about personal taste, I may not endorse a mod that is not to my personal taste (sometimes I will though), and I would not downrate a mod because it is not to my personal taste, but I often endorse a mod that is to my personal taste. This is what most people tend to do, I think, and it makes a difficult double standard, I also think.

 

I tend to rate that way too Myramaad. Sometimes I've endorsed, even with problems in the mod, because the modder truly gave it their all and are still working with users to try and improve the experience their mod gives.

 

I like the new rating system of endorsing or not actually. Giving some folks a set of numbers just confuses them, when they were confused to begin with, lol Because in the end, either you like/will endorse a mod or you don't/won't, for whatever reason.

 

Possibly so but there's that old saying "no news is good news" if they apply that after getting lots of views/DLs but not much feedback then I guess they can assume people like the mod.

 

You're probably right Micko. But I get just as hackled about the lack of ratings on a good mod. How hard is it to come back the next day and just hit I endorse. Again, just my advocate side showing thru. My daughter just laughed and shook her head :no: when I was writing the post, lol

 

I appreciate all the different responses and viewpoints. Gives me some things to think about too. But I really did want to rant on it, lol So Bben, good rant :yes:

 

Oh and for the record, while I am an emoticon using hog :P , I just used so many this time so I could emulate my heroes and fit in :cool: lol

 

:thanks: you guys for doing what you do best, dropping knowledge! :) That questionnaire would be fabulous. I know if I were doing the modding, that's the kind of feedback I'd want. And I did actually dl and open up the CS, so who knows maybe one day soon... I know one thing, if I ever do mod successfully, I'll be sure to check back and give help to those having trouble, and let the folks who've taken the time to rate and/or add screenies know that I truly do appreciate their recognition and effort. Which brings me to my next rant.... ;D