Why not change the economy?

[Beriallord]

I don't like the idea of the USA transitioning into a service/consumer based economy. We used to generally make what we needed, and we used what we made. Once you start a globalized economy, its hard to undo it though. It could be done, but it would probably require 15-20 years to make the transition back. The USA would have to rebuilt its manufacturing industry. Import tariffs can be used to make products created in your own country more competitive than stuff that is imported. But that only works if we have the ability to fill the gaps with products made here. I think its more beneficial for countries that have a similar socio-economic level to trade with each other and compete. Any government should always put its own Nation's labor force first.

 

Capitalism on a local/regional/national level = good

Global Capitalism = bad.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Beriallord

[Beriallord]

 

 

 

A question is just who would rise to attack the corrupt power factions of the world? In the end would the military, and other forces, defend or attack the current balance of power? I think that the intelligent, skilled and cheated middle class may well be driven to rebel and will take the so called lower classes with them. In the past disaffected members of the upper classes have turned upon them; many famous revolutionaries came from such origins so it could happen again. If a war did start it would probably be a very messy, destructive event that would change the world no matter which side won or if the war ended in a stalemate.

 

 

You need look no further than Europe to see what is rising and it's not pretty. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/golden-dawn-rise-far-right-euro-201441483840429923.html

 

 

Fascist groups like the Golden Dawn are going to start gaining in popularity the more dire the political/economic atmosphere in a country is. Ideologies like that thrive in those sorts of situations. Nazism rose up in Germany during hard economic times after the fall of the Weimar Republic. The same thing could happen anywhere, even the USA. Ideologies like those are too extreme for normal people during better economic times, but once things go downhill and you have a large population of youth who are unemployed, can't get jobs, and then people are going to look for someone to blame. And where there is blame, there is hate.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Beriallord

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

A question is just who would rise to attack the corrupt power factions of the world? In the end would the military, and other forces, defend or attack the current balance of power? I think that the intelligent, skilled and cheated middle class may well be driven to rebel and will take the so called lower classes with them. In the past disaffected members of the upper classes have turned upon them; many famous revolutionaries came from such origins so it could happen again. If a war did start it would probably be a very messy, destructive event that would change the world no matter which side won or if the war ended in a stalemate.

 

 

You need look no further than Europe to see what is rising and it's not pretty. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/golden-dawn-rise-far-right-euro-201441483840429923.html

 

 

Your link is pointing to the wrong article

 

 

That's annoying, no matter what link I use it goes to their home page. Search "Golden Dawn" on their site, the article is titled "Golden Dawn and the rise of the far right in Europe".

 

@Beriallord Europe has a very dark history when it comes to minorities, they've always been welcomed but then turned on when things aren't going so good, there was a great article in the NYT that made this point and suggested minorities should be starting to get worried, especially Muslims. I wish I could find the link to it, it was quite insightful. There's more to it though, the E.U is stripping democracy away, many feel they no longer have any say in the way their country is run. They feel that all the mainstream parties are the same, which comes as no surprise as they're only managers for the real government which is made up of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. There is an elected European parliament but it has no legislative power, it's just a rubber stamp for diktats from Brussels.

[HeyYou]

I don't like the idea of the USA transitioning into a service/consumer based economy. We used to generally make what we needed, and we used what we made. Once you start a globalized economy, its hard to undo it though. It could be done, but it would probably require 15-20 years to make the transition back. The USA would have to rebuilt its manufacturing industry. Import tariffs can be used to make products created in your own country more competitive than stuff that is imported. But that only works if we have the ability to fill the gaps with products made here. I think its more beneficial for countries that have a similar socio-economic level to trade with each other and compete. Any government should always put its own Nation's labor force first.

 

Capitalism on a local/regional/national level = good

Global Capitalism = bad.

We are already a service based economy. fully 90% of the jobs here are in the service industry, in one form, or another.

 

 

The folks in power, that make the decisions on treaties, free-trade agreements, etc, are the ones making the most money from leaving things just as they are, and opening up new third world countries to export our jobs to. It isn't going to get better, it's going to get worse. Our politicians don't care about the economy here at home, unless its an election year...... all they care about is maintiaining their gravy train, and the campaign dollars keep rolling in. They pass laws that the majority of citizens know for a fact are bad for the general population, but, it's good for the top 5% or so, so the law passes. After all, THEY are the ones that are supplying the campaign dollars. They pretty much decide who runs, and who gets elected. What's really funny is, the Supreme Court is on their side..... Citizens United, and the more recent decision revoking spending limits on political campaigns, pretty much hands them the government. Seems that Money equals Free Speech in the USA...... and the more money you have, the more important what you are saying seems to be.

 

There was a bill introduced in congress, don't recall which house, or who did it, that would put in place laws that would basically overturn citizens united, and pretty much neutralize super pacs, and other huge campaign donors. Of course, it never made it out of committe.

[Beriallord]

When the US economy finally goes completely FUBAR, which it will, the best people can hope for is a political party with a moderate political position who have solid economic ideas, and who are not extreme left or right wing. Communism or Fascism isn't the answer. All these laws, and amendments passed in the last 200+ years, at some point its going to have to be ripped to pieces and whoever the new government is will have to start from scratch and selectively pick which ideas were good or bad. There are simply too many bad decisions put into law to be able to undo them all on an individual basis.

[HeyYou]

I fear you are correct on the economy..... Of late, even the CBO is calling the current path "unsustainable"...... with debt piling up to enormous proprotions. What is truly troubling is, even though everyone can SEE where we are headed, and the consequences thereof, STILL, no one is really doing anything about it. Sure, both parties make a fair bit of noise about it, and both have their own 'plans' on how to deal with it. Problem is, NEITHER partys plan will actually solve the issue. They are all half-measures, and workarounds, that only put off the problem by a few years.......

 

Something needs to radically change for this particular outcome to be avoided. (which I don't see happening..... avoidance, that is.)

[Beriallord]

@Beriallord Europe has a very dark history when it comes to minorities, they've always been welcomed but then turned on when things aren't going so good, there was a great article in the NYT that made this point and suggested minorities should be starting to get worried, especially Muslims. I wish I could find the link to it, it was quite insightful. There's more to it though, the E.U is stripping democracy away, many feel they no longer have any say in the way their country is run. They feel that all the mainstream parties are the same, which comes as no surprise as they're only managers for the real government which is made up of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. There is an elected European parliament but it has no legislative power, it's just a rubber stamp for diktats from Brussels.

 

 

What you describe fits the definition of an Oligarchy, not a Democracy. The only difference between an Oligarchy and a Dictatorship is there are dozens to hundreds of tyrants instead of just one. That is basically what the EU is. All it would take to dismantle the EU would be for Germany, France, or Britain to leave.

 

It puzzles me why any country would want to open its doors to floods of immigrants from the 3rd world. Some immigration is fine, but from what I've seen and heard about places in Europe they've gone completely overboard with immigration policies. Many of these immigrants from the 3rd world have no marketable skills, and are being thrown in a totally different socio-economic environment. Its not a surprise to see why many of them aren't adapting as quick as some would like. But the fault lay on the ones pushing the immigration policies, not the immigrants themselves.

 

Reponsible immigration policy is allowing people in who have marketable skills, and someone who isn't likely to be a lifetime dependent on the Nation's welfare roster. Empying the slums of one Nation onto the streets of a developed Nation is only asking for trouble.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Beriallord

[JimboUK]

 

@Beriallord Europe has a very dark history when it comes to minorities, they've always been welcomed but then turned on when things aren't going so good, there was a great article in the NYT that made this point and suggested minorities should be starting to get worried, especially Muslims. I wish I could find the link to it, it was quite insightful. There's more to it though, the E.U is stripping democracy away, many feel they no longer have any say in the way their country is run. They feel that all the mainstream parties are the same, which comes as no surprise as they're only managers for the real government which is made up of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. There is an elected European parliament but it has no legislative power, it's just a rubber stamp for diktats from Brussels.

 

 

What you describe fits the definition of an Oligarchy, not a Democracy. The only difference between an Oligarchy and a Dictatorship is there are dozens to hundreds of tyrants instead of just one. That is basically what the EU is. All it would take to dismantle the EU would be for Germany, France, or Britain to leave.

 

It puzzles me why any country would want to open its doors to floods of immigrants from the 3rd world. Some immigration is fine, but from what I've seen and heard about places in Europe they've gone completely overboard with immigration policies. Many of these immigrants from the 3rd world have no marketable skills, and are being thrown in a totally different socio-economic environment. Its not a surprise to see why many of them aren't adapting as quick as some would like. But the fault lay on the ones pushing the immigration policies, not the immigrants themselves.

 

Reponsible immigration policy is allowing people in who have marketable skills, and someone who isn't likely to be a lifetime dependent on the Nation's welfare roster. Empying the slums of one Nation onto the streets of a developed Nation is only asking for trouble.

 

 

Uncontrolled immigration from poorer nations is absolute madness, in this country we have 2.5 million unemployed and a chronic housing shortage yet our borders are still wide open to the rest of Europe. Leaving people to rot on welfare while importing workers is a betrayal by the those who are supposed to serve the countries best interests. The British government is using cheap imported labour to drive down the wages of British workers, they're serving their pals in big business, not the people. However things are slowly starting to unravel as this weekends European Elections prove, increasingly people have had enough. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/anti-establishment-parties-claim-big-wins-in-european-parliamentary-vote/2014/05/25/73e84fe1-ed5e-47fb-bc0e-d6626e861f3d_story.html

[HeyYou]

And here in the states, they want MORE H1 visas..... (the ones for 'guest workers')..... Not sure what it is going to take for the folks in washington to wake up. I suspect it involves a scaffold, and a rope.

[JimboUK]

I bet you a pound to a penny they're wide awake and know exactly what they're doing, they're driving down wages for the their paymasters.