And So It Begins...

[evilhippo]

Profit! Makes me want to bloody spit. Sell-outs.

 

Bizarre. So by that I presume you do NOT want Oblivion to make a profit for the people who paid to create it? In other words, you do not want a sequel to ever get made? And as for being 'sell outs', what does that mean exactly? Were you under the impresssion that Oblivion was being marketed as a philanthropic non-profit project and all the money they take fir it goes to help Poor Llama Farmers in Peru? And did you realise that the people who make such games get paid salaries and that money has to come from somewhere?

 

And what planet are you from anyway? If people risk their capital on something as uncertain as a computer game (i.e. a hell of a lot more than you risked to buy the game), why should they not expect to make a profilt if things go well???

 

Now I agree that it is a shame that they have not released the plug-in code (I do not even think it is good business, but then I am not one of Bethesda's investors) but the basic notion of charging for content is just fine by me.

[Peregrine]

Why is this bad? If they are continuing to work on stuff, why should they do it for free? They are a BUSINESS guys, not a charity. The people working on the mods are being paid, so where do you think the money for that comes from? I have no problem paying one lousy pound (or two bucks) for a profession quality mod when a coffee in Starbucks costs more than that. Why do people think they are just entitled to professionally done work for nothing?

 

If the mods do not appeal to you, don't buy them, but why complain if they want to charge for them? No one is ENTITLED to their continuing work if they do not feel like giving it away.

 

Because they're NOT continuing to work. The fact that they're releasing the official mods so soon after the game release proves that very little, if any, work has been done since the game was finished. The stuff you're paying for was deliberately left out of the game, so they could sell it to you later.

[loveme4whoiam]

So by that I presume you do NOT want Oblivion to make a profit for the people who paid to create it? In other words, you do not want a sequel to ever get made?

 

My disagreements with the capitalist system of profit and reward are not relevant to this discussion. Suffice to say, I am sure that Bethosoft have made a hefty profit on the game already, without milking it.

 

And as for being 'sell outs', what does that mean exactly?

 

It means that for Morrowind Bethesda were excellent at providing the tools the modding community needed (as far as I am aware - I never heard any complaints), and to deliberately withhold them in order to exort more money from people who would have, for free, made the products they are selling, makes them sellouts. There are worse words I could use to describe those but this is a family place, so I shan't mention them.

 

And did you realise that the people who make such games get paid salaries and that money has to come from somewhere?

 

My grasp on the economics of gaming-making are quite sufficient, thank you. But let me point your attention towards Guild Wars. It has bucked the trend of MMORPGs and not charged subscription costs - and its one of the most popular games of its type running today. It has servers that have to be maintained, and new content is added fairly regularly, yet they seem to manage without a weekly charge. If the Guild Wars company, who has a much larger drain on monetary resources than Bethesda, can make do without milking money out of customers, why can't Bethsoft?

 

And what planet are you from anyway? If people risk their capital on something as uncertain as a computer game (i.e. a hell of a lot more than you risked to buy the game), why should they not expect to make a profilt if things go well???

 

Earth, third planet from the Sun. What that has to do with this debate is unclear, so I'll assume it was needless trolling. And to answer the rest of your question, I don't mind that they make a profit (too much), but to do this is ridiculous. They are stifling a community which they, thanks to Morrowind, created, and demanding more money for products that others could and would have made for free. So covering the costs they are running developing this new content is hardly the best argument for developing the plugins in the first place, is it? And, might I point out, Morrowind had official plugins, which were free. They have turned their backs on community and embraced the marketting men and accountants (which were probably hired from EA).

 

If you wish to continue debating this, please do not use trolling language. If you are unsure what trolling langauge is, please read the Posting Don'ts thread, pinned at the top of every page.

[MiNalien]

You know, I would pay the price of buying Oblivion CE again just to shut you whiners up. I'm sick of people complaining about Bethesda wanting to make a little bit of money for their work. They're a company, not hobbyists for this, they have needs other than just wanting to release something. And $2 REALLY isn't that much to pay for something -_-;

[Peregrine]

You know, I would pay the price of buying Oblivion CE again just to shut you whiners up. I'm sick of people complaining about Bethesda wanting to make a little bit of money for their work. They're a company, not hobbyists for this, they have needs other than just wanting to release something. And $2 REALLY isn't that much to pay for something -_-;

 

No, $2 isn't all that much... I spend that much on lunch every day. But you're also not getting very much in exchange for that $2. We're not talking about full expansions here, just little bits of content that were pulled from the basic game to make a little extra money. Or, in the case of one of the announced ones, just another generic house mod like all the billion other ones out there.

 

And like I said, the fact that they're being released so soon suggests that there isn't all that much work involved.

[TairosAurelius]

It's sickening. And they've just purged the forum of almost every dissident, so everything looks peachy to prospective buyers now.

 

You know, I would pay the price of buying Oblivion CE again just to shut you whiners up. I'm sick of people complaining about Bethesda wanting to make a little bit of money for their work. They're a company, not hobbyists for this, they have needs other than just wanting to release something. And $2 REALLY isn't that much to pay for something -_-;

 

Yeah, until they do it again. And again.

But mostly, it's the principle. That they have the audacity to yank something from the game to resell a week later is simply revolting.

[morpheous316]

Yeah, until they do it again. And again.

But mostly, it's the principle. That they have the audacity to yank something from the game to resell a week later is simply revolting.

 

You ever consider that perhaps these things were always being reserved for plugins? So there would be downloadable content to be release in installments, while they take the traditional break after a game goes gold and for sale. You do understand that they dont have time to sit around during the final months before release to make tons of original mods. The last few weeks are spent polishing the content already in the game and they are usually stuck pulling unpaid overtime to meet deadlines. The decision to make the plugins that are comming plugins instead of ship with release was probably made a LONG time ago. When these three are released then expect to see some new stuff. As I said the content was more then likly planned to have been plugin content from the beginning. Also if you notice the plugins for morrowind stopped 6 months after release. There were no more official plugins. While most of them were pretty much pointless, I would expect for there to be some decent plugins down the road.

 

Seriously had they released a new faction or something you guys would STILL be whining "They should have included this with the game I shouldnt have to pay 2 dollars. This is something major to hold out on us they are such sell outs." Its probably better that they saved a few MINOR things for initial official plugins. As I have said these three plugins announced were probably created from the get go with the idea of saving them for plugins in mind so they would have time to work on more content with out being rushed by the community. If they had waited 2 months you would still have people complaining saying "Whatever happend to the Official Mods Bethesda promised us." So seriously just chill out.. if you dont like the plugins dont buy them. I dont see them releasing these plugins more then once every 2 weeks or so and at that rate I used to pay more on crappy MMORPGs for the past 6 years..

[lbeefus]

Because they're NOT continuing to work. The fact that they're releasing the official mods so soon after the game release proves that very little, if any, work has been done since the game was finished. The stuff you're paying for was deliberately left out of the game, so they could sell it to you later.

 

That's actually not true: commercial software projects usually end with a reasonably long period in which bug fixes aren't really being taken, because the bugs are minor and fixing a bug often causes another. Plus, once they reach RTM, it still takes a long time for the CDs to be pressed and make it out to the public.

 

So, in reality, they've had plenty of time to write these plugins.

 

If they had put out a half-finished game, and were then selling the patches, yeah, that'd be bad. But in this case, they're selling little extras that weren't part of the game you paid for. And if my $1.99 here and there means that Beth can afford to keep putting out higher quality mods, I'm all for it.

[Peregrine]

You ever consider that perhaps these things were always being reserved for plugins?

 

Of course they were. They announced the horse armor idea as an official plugin before the game was even released.

 

But the question is why is it a pay-to-download mod, and not in the game where it should be? Why was a basic idea like this set aside for future profit-making?

 

Seriously had they released a new faction or something you guys would STILL be whining "They should have included this with the game I shouldnt have to pay 2 dollars.

 

No I wouldn't be. I happily paid the $5-10 for the Neverwinter Nights official mods, because they added substantial content that was clearly different from the basic game. $5 for a separate storyline is very different from $2 for a feature that should've been in the game already.

That's actually not true: commercial software projects usually end with a reasonably long period in which bug fixes aren't really being taken, because the bugs are minor and fixing a bug often causes another. Plus, once they reach RTM, it still takes a long time for the CDs to be pressed and make it out to the public.

 

So, in reality, they've had plenty of time to write these plugins.

 

But they're still not very substantial in content. These are things that could easily have been added to the basic game, but were intentionally set aside for extra money.

 

If they had put out a half-finished game, and were then selling the patches, yeah, that'd be bad. But in this case, they're selling little extras that weren't part of the game you paid for. And if my $1.99 here and there means that Beth can afford to keep putting out higher quality mods, I'm all for it.

 

But that's exactly what it is. Horse armor is just such a common-sense thing that it should've been in the game already. But they released the game unfinished, and now expect us to pay more money for the features we should have.

 

And I won't be at all surprised if future official mods include things like the missing weapon types.

[lordjonny]

the first thing i need to say is if a modder could get paid for the long hours spent on a something that is not even worth it would he? i see it this way the $2 is just paying for the coffie that the gut who made the thing has most likely downed