Israel, and Gaza.

[HeyYou]

Well, this certainly is a sticky situation.... Question becomes, who is right here? Or, at least, who is less wrong.....

 

Given the current situation in Israel/Gaza, whom do you believe is mostly to blame for the CURRENT military action going on, and why? Do you think there should be a ceasefire, so that a 'path to peace' might be hammered out? Or, do you think that Israel should just tell the rest of the world to stuff it, continue with their current action, and FORCIBLY demilitarize Gaza?

 

For my part, I am all for Israel in this particular instance. I don't believe there can EVER be peace, so long as Hamas exists as a viable military entity. I will grant you, that reducing them to something that is no longer a real threat, just isn't going to be easy, and, chances are real good there will be a great deal of civilian casualties. I lay that squarely at the feet of Hamas. They are the ones hiding behind civilians, discouraging them leaving conflict areas..... and in my opinion, for the express purpose of being killed by Israeli weapons, so the court of public opinion sees the large numbers, and basically coerces Israel into yet another 'agreement', that solves nothing, and pretty much only guarantees that we are going to go thru this song and dance again.

 

I will grant that Israel is not totally blameless here either. Some of their policies are not what we would consider 'completely legal'. Chiefly, settlement building. Most of the world recognizes that a fair few of them are indeed illegal, and in direct violation of international law. Israels answer to that? Annex the land, and make it part of Israel, or, pass laws, that 'legitimize' said settlements. Of course, by international law, that really changes nothing, but, it gives the Israelis something to point at, and say: "This is perfectly legal by Israeli law."

 

This is a situation the US has been poking at for decades, and the situation hasn't changed at all. (aside from Israel picking up some more land.) Personally, I don't think EITHER side wants peace, or, a two-state solution. Unfortunately, I don't think this will ever be fully resolved, until one side, or the other, are all dead...... Not a pretty picture.

[JimboUK]

Israel has the right to defend itself and Hamas is never going to stop attacking them, there is only ever going to one result from that situation. Israel has made concession after concession to these people and have time and again had it thrown back in their face, three times during this current fight Israel have agreed a ceasefire and three time Hamas have broken it.

 

http://i.imgur.com/4FrbCGa.jpg

[Nintii]

While I agree with most of the OP's argument, it must be remembered that Gaza was governed by the Ottoman Empire

for about 400 years and then by Great Britain from 1918 up to 1948.

The Egyptians then controlled it up to 1967.

Israel then took control of the land after the 6 Day War in 1967 and governed it until 1994 - and then GAVE IT over to the

control of The Palestinian authority in 1994.

It was NEVER under Palestinian rule or control for well over 500 years.

 

The bogus propaganda that the Palestinians spout in the media about how Israel wants to occupy and control Gaza is therefore

utter rubbish, why would they want to control a piece of land they have GIVEN to them.

 

Israel, are the good guys here, if the Palestinians want to allow a terrorist organization like Hamas to operate from Gaza,

then they only have themselves to blame if Israel retaliates.

If theses Hamas cowards want to hide behind the skirts of their women and children while they rocket Israel then they must

not cry if Israel gets miffed and kills them.

They only have themselves to blame.

[HeyYou]

While I agree with most of the OP's argument, it must be remembered that Gaza was governed by the Ottoman Empire

for about 400 years and then by Great Britain from 1918 up to 1948.

The Egyptians then controlled it up to 1967.

Israel then took control of the land after the 6 Day War in 1967 and governed it until 1994 - and then GAVE IT over to the

control of The Palestinian authority in 1994.

It was NEVER under Palestinian rule or control for well over 500 years.

 

The bogus propaganda that the Palestinians spout in the media about how Israel wants to occupy and control Gaza is therefore

utter rubbish, why would they want to control a piece of land they have GIVEN to them.

 

Israel, are the good guys here, if the Palestinians want to allow a terrorist organization like Hamas to operate from Gaza,

then they only have themselves to blame if Israel retaliates.

If theses Hamas cowards want to hide behind the skirts of their women and children while they rocket Israel then they must

not cry if Israel gets miffed and kills them.

They only have themselves to blame.

Trouble is, while what you say is completely true, Hamas still points at the civilian casualties, and cries to the world "Look what Israel is doing!" And there are enough bleeding hearts out there that public opinion starts to go against Israel. Doesn't seem to matter that it is common knowledge (from multiple sources, not all western media) that Hamas is indeed doing this on purpose. I think, if I were in Obama's place, I would make a public announcement that the US stands with Israel, and if Hamas wants to stop the civilian casualties, they can unconditionally surrender, and no one else needs to die.

[josh900]

According to a transcript of a recent call (which hopefully isn't real) Obama is actually against Israel in this matter. Demanding that Israel ceases all military actions against Gaza and letting Hamas just... do whatever they want apparently. Saying that he believes that when Israel stops, Hamas will too for some odd reason. He really doesn't seem to care that Hamas has broken every cease fire these two sides have every made and won't stop until they take complete control over Israel, something that the Hamas leader has repeatedly said over and over during this entire fight.

 

Also, John Kerry's cease-fire proposals have all seemed like he basically wants Israel to give the Hamas everything they want and leave themselves defenseless against future attacks.

 

It's kind of concerning because it all sort of points to the possibility that America is siding with the terrorist on this one. Even the UN seems to be on Hamas's side. All because they picked a fight that they have no hope of winning and are crying about how it isn't fair that they don't have a chance of destroying them.

Sorry but you shouldn't be able to poke a lion with a stick for years, then get everyone hating it because it got sick of your crap and tore your face off.

 

Personally I say that Israel shouldn't stop firing until Hamas is nothing but a distant memory.Wipe them of the face of the earth, not cripple them, not subdue them, and certainly not negotiate with them and hope that their allies, who also want Israel gone, will tell them to stop attacking.

[JimboUK]

Obama has form for going against Americas allies while sucking up to her enemies, anyone expecting him to do the right thing is in for a long wait.

[Aurielius]

Obama has form for going against Americas allies while sucking up to her enemies, anyone expecting him to do the right thing is in for a long wait.

I've been waiting for six years...da dumm de dum...... :whistling:

[HeyYou]

I hope no one is holding their breath waiting on Obama......

 

The reputed conversation between Obama, and Netanyahoo.... has been denied by both administrations. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't a paraphrased version of the actual convo....

 

But, of late, America seems to have a habit of taking the wrong side of various conflicts....

[Aurielius]

The short version of this conflict is that it was well established before I was born and I do not expect the fundamental issue will ever be solved in my lifetime. On a purely military level this most recent operation by the IDF is only going to provide a short term inoculation against Hamas's infiltrations across the border.

[WarRatsG]

Israel's Deputy Prime Minister Eli Yashai has gone on record as saying:
"We must blow Gaza back to the middle ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water."

There's plenty of these quotes, from all areas of government including their transport minister, from rabbis and from Israeli civilians demonstrating on the street. I can't find it, but I saw one saying "Palestinians are not human". Doesn't sound to me like they're too concerned about Hamas' human shields. If anything, it sounds like they actually want to take down the civilians.