Join Empire or Stormcloaks? My Thoughts

[nekollx]

What in the hell does hold against hold have to do with Thalmor patrols on Skyrim (Imperial) soil kidnapping, torturing and murdering IMPERIAL CITIZENS?

 

Ulfric is responsible for starting a Civil War, he's not responsible for starting Religious persecution. That is started by the Thalmor, and is being backed by the Empire.

 

FFS, the Thalmor are patrolling IMPERIAL TERRITORY in Skyrim and dragging people out of their homes. If I had a nickel for every Thalmor patrol in Markarth area I'd be rich.

their being back by the empire in Crodill, who capritualed to the thalmore at the white gold concordant, to the empire Skyrim is a outside property rember that, High King Toyrr would have been the one keeping the Thalmor out as he would be responsible for Skyrim instead of a forign nation acting on Skyrim Behalf. But somebody killed the High King destabilizing the empire's athority in skyrim and declaring open War, without another High King the forign governing body has to step in and to them Skyrim is a unrully forign providence they have no inate conection to...that was High King Torryg's job...but again Someone killed him and decraed open war.

[fraquar]

There is no circumstance whatsoever where the Empire should be emboldening the Thalmor to perform what is essentially SS tactics in Imperial territory. Treaty or no treaty, it makes absolutely no sense unless the side that invites it (Empire) simply can't defend themselves, even 25 years+ after the end of the Great War.

 

20+ years after WWI, Germany was threatening dominance of the entire European region, even after being the subject of ridiculous financial sanctions.

 

This Empire is essentially done.

[nekollx]

There is no circumstance whatsoever where the Empire should be emboldening the Thalmor to perform what is essentially SS tactics in Imperial territory. Treaty or no treaty, it makes absolutely no sense unless the side that invites it (Empire) simply can't defend themselves, even 25 years+ after the end of the Great War.

 

20+ years after WWI, Germany was threatening dominance of the entire European region, even after being the subject of ridiculous financial sanctions.

 

This Empire is essentially done.

i don't think you grast the sevirty of Ulfric's a actions

Here try a contemtory example

Ulfric is a guvonor, and a war vetran, he goes to the white house kills the president, vice president and the other head members of the judiciary brach leaving behind the only person remotely close to the ruling body being the first lady, then he arms a milita and declares the US needs to break all internatioanl ties and become a independent nation while setting his militioa to take any disagreeing sates and counties by force.

 

Ulfric didn't just kill a guy he destroyed the entire field of power in skyrim, Rember skyrim is rulled by a high King not a council so taking out the high king takes out the entire politcal structure of the empire.

[MidbossVyers]

What the actual f, nekollx? The US is already an independent nation, while Skyrim, under Torygg, is a vassal state of Cyrodiil. Also, the only person that Ulfric killed that day was Torygg after Torygg agreed to the duel. Ulfric wants to remove Cyrodiil's military and political influence from Skyrim, but that's it. He has no qualms about Imperial businesses operating even in his own city. Yes, Ulfric does remove Torygg's administration. That was kinda his goal, to replace it with his own. As for the rest of what you wrote... Ugh, too many typos physically wound me.

Edited October 2, 2015 by MidbossVyers

[kimmera]

 

There is no circumstance whatsoever where the Empire should be emboldening the Thalmor to perform what is essentially SS tactics in Imperial territory. Treaty or no treaty, it makes absolutely no sense unless the side that invites it (Empire) simply can't defend themselves, even 25 years+ after the end of the Great War.

 

20+ years after WWI, Germany was threatening dominance of the entire European region, even after being the subject of ridiculous financial sanctions.

 

This Empire is essentially done.

i don't think you grast the sevirty of Ulfric's a actions

Here try a contemtory example

Ulfric is a guvonor, and a war vetran, he goes to the white house kills the president, vice president and the other head members of the judiciary brach leaving behind the only person remotely close to the ruling body being the first lady, then he arms a milita and declares the US needs to break all internatioanl ties and become a independent nation while setting his militioa to take any disagreeing sates and counties by force.

 

Ulfric didn't just kill a guy he destroyed the entire field of power in skyrim, Rember skyrim is rulled by a high King not a council so taking out the high king takes out the entire politcal structure of the empire.

 

 

 

What the actual f, nekollx? The US is already an independent nation, while Skyrim, under Torygg, is a vassal state of Cyrodiil. Also, the only person that Ulfric killed that day was Torygg after Torygg agreed to the duel. Ulfric wants to remove Cyrodiil's military and political influence from Skyrim, but that's it. He has no qualms about Imperial businesses operating even in his own city. Yes, Ulfric does remove Torygg's administration. That was kinda his goal, to replace it with his own. As for the rest of what you wrote... Ugh, too many typos physically wound me.

 

The better example would be a veteran of Iraq returns with his unit to Puerto Rico, where he kills the governor in what he claims was a legal duel (or in 'self defense' might be a better modern equivalent), then flees San Juan to his own neighborhood where he hooks up with his unit who are all loyal to him and takes up the fight for Puerto Rican independance.

 

Then complains when the US intervenes.

[CaptainPatch]

What in the hell does hold against hold have to do with Thalmor patrols on Skyrim (Imperial) soil kidnapping, torturing and murdering IMPERIAL CITIZENS?

Look at the timing of when the Thalmor Talos-hunters first appeared. As was mentioned earlier, Hadvar says that growing up, Talos-worshipers were NOT being hassled. So the Thalmor Talos-hunters didn't appear until after "growing up" was done. That would make it a fairly recent innovation. Probably only since the civil war started. Consider: In all of Skyrim, who would be most likely to blatantly flaunt their Talos worship enough to draw the attention of the Thalmor? That would most likely be Stormcloaks or Stormcloak sympathizers. So, given the civil war, allowing the Thalmor to thin the ranks of the Stormcloaks would be deemed a Good Thing... so why stop it? As for the taking of IMPERIAL CITIZENS, nearly all of those being taken were citizens in rebellion against the Empire. (Talk to a Thalmor prisoner that you may have just freed from a Thalmor patrol. 100% of the time he tells you to go to Windhelm and enlist with the Stormcloaks.)

 

As an aside, I'd like to say that I found it peculiar that NONE of the Talos shrines were found in a smashed condition. I can't imagine that any Thalmor patrol would discover a Talos shrine and then NOT smash it. Except in the case of some few shrines that they use as "fishing holes", like the one East of Whiterun where the PC takes Torygg's war horn to use as an offering to Talos.

Edited October 2, 2015 by CaptainPatch

[MidbossVyers]

 

 

There is no circumstance whatsoever where the Empire should be emboldening the Thalmor to perform what is essentially SS tactics in Imperial territory. Treaty or no treaty, it makes absolutely no sense unless the side that invites it (Empire) simply can't defend themselves, even 25 years+ after the end of the Great War.

 

20+ years after WWI, Germany was threatening dominance of the entire European region, even after being the subject of ridiculous financial sanctions.

 

This Empire is essentially done.

i don't think you grast the sevirty of Ulfric's a actions

Here try a contemtory example

Ulfric is a guvonor, and a war vetran, he goes to the white house kills the president, vice president and the other head members of the judiciary brach leaving behind the only person remotely close to the ruling body being the first lady, then he arms a milita and declares the US needs to break all internatioanl ties and become a independent nation while setting his militioa to take any disagreeing sates and counties by force.

 

Ulfric didn't just kill a guy he destroyed the entire field of power in skyrim, Rember skyrim is rulled by a high King not a council so taking out the high king takes out the entire politcal structure of the empire.

 

 

 

What the actual f, nekollx? The US is already an independent nation, while Skyrim, under Torygg, is a vassal state of Cyrodiil. Also, the only person that Ulfric killed that day was Torygg after Torygg agreed to the duel. Ulfric wants to remove Cyrodiil's military and political influence from Skyrim, but that's it. He has no qualms about Imperial businesses operating even in his own city. Yes, Ulfric does remove Torygg's administration. That was kinda his goal, to replace it with his own. As for the rest of what you wrote... Ugh, too many typos physically wound me.

 

The better example would be a veteran of Iraq returns with his unit to Puerto Rico, where he kills the governor in what he claims was a legal duel (or in 'self defense' might be a better modern equivalent), then flees San Juan to his own neighborhood where he hooks up with his unit who are all loyal to him and takes up the fight for Puerto Rican independance.

 

Then complains when the US intervenes.

 

Last time that I checked, the US did not suppress Puerto Rican religious freedom. A better example is the current situation in Asia where the Chinese government declared that it will appoint the next religious leader of Tibet after the Dalai Lama steps down. If a Tibetan militia kills the Party Secretary in Tibet in retaliation, along with any local politicians appointed by the Communist Government, then they would be justified in their rebellion.

[CaptainPatch]

Last time that I checked, the US did not suppress Puerto Rican religious freedom. A better example is the current situation in Asia where the Chinese government declared that it will appoint the next religious leader of Tibet after the Dalai Lama steps down. If a Tibetan militia kills the Party Secretary in Tibet in retaliation, along with any local politicians appointed by the Communist Government, then they would be justified in their rebellion.

The religious issue is just the rebel leader's casus belli for having started a revolt. A casus belli could be literally ANY difference of opinion between the two sides of the issue. Religion, politics, Economy, whatever. In your example, a more appropriate analogy would be if the Chinese wouldn't be appointing the next Dalai Lama; they would be banning the religion entirely.

 

Personally, I thought kimmera's analogy was spot on.

[MidbossVyers]

No, that was not a hypothetical scenario. The current Chinese government is literally saying that they will appoint the next Dalai Lama, instead of letting Tibet perform their decision ritual.

[CaptainPatch]

No, that was not a hypothetical scenario. The current Chinese government is literally saying that they will appoint the next Dalai Lama, instead of letting Tibet perform their decision ritual.

Understood. But I'm saying that though somewhat similar, it's not at all analogous to the situation in Skyrim. Banning a religion is not like usurping a religion. And Tibet is an occupied country rather than a long-standing province of an existing empire.