Join Empire or Stormcloaks? My Thoughts

[MidbossVyers]

Then why did Mede request that you kill Motierre?

[Lachdonin]

Loose ends. Particularly if Mede wanted to blame the Thalmor for his assassination, the only way to reliably do so would be to ensure that the stooge (or willing accomplice, some think Motierre was in on it, but he never seemed like the smart sort to me...) who put in the order was dead, so no one could contradict the source.

[Rethrain]

(or willing accomplice, some think Motierre was in on it, but he never seemed like the smart sort to me...) who put in the order was dead, so no one could contradict the source.

 

I remember The Motierres, the Hero of Kvatch had to deal with one of them 200(?) years or so in the past. The new one takes on the same nasty traits as the first one, maybe not quite as...repulsive. He's not really smart, but he's devious and in it only for himself and his own advancement, which basically means he would never play the stooge for Mede. So, yeah, I'm in agreement.

[LeddBate]

I've never played the Dark Brotherhood questline, so I don't know exactly what Titus Mede said to the PC (who may, or may not, be aware of his or her potential to be DB if you used "Live Another Life") when the PC confronts Mede in his flagship during the final assassination quest (the first attempt on Mede being foiled by a ringer.) But the gist of Mede's final words to the PC seems to be: "Yeah, this is necessary for the Empire to continue now..."

 

Probably the last play (or optional play) of a long line of strategy he had to preserve the Empire against the AD. Mede seems (seemed) to take the long view, willing to shamelessly stack the deck in favor of his long-term strategy. As any good commander should. No one should ever try to pick "a fair fight".

 

Back to the Ulfric's capture at the start of the game: I believe that Ulfric and his personal guard were indeed being transported to Cyrodiil via the Southern border gate not too far from Fort Neugrad. But they had a long way to go to get there (Ralof mentions that they were originally ambushed at Darkwater Crossing) and Thalmor field agents (or spies) clearly detected them and sent word to Elenwen.

 

An Imperial convoy consisting of several wagons, a handful of horses and the rest of the Legionnaires on foot, wouldn't be moving that quickly, especially if they were attempting to maintain secrecy by staying off the main-roads as much as possible. Elenwen probably got word of the convoy rather quickly and moved even quicker to seal the border off. Remember, the Thalmor have access to LOTS of high-level mages. Given the amount of magic that the PC acquires (especially if he/she opts to be a mage) it isn't hard to imagine that Elenwen could maneuver forces into position to block Tullius from getting Ulfric out of Skyrim cleanly. Tullius most likely had a few scouts on horseback ahead of the convoy -and once they detected the Thalmor presence at the Southern border and reported back to him, being no fool, (arrogant, yes -fool, no) quickly turned the convoy around and headed for the nearest Imperial held city to carry out "Plan B" ("A little off the top, me Lord?")

 

He probably left a blocking force behind him of many of his foot troops to prevent Thalmor Justicars from moving up from the border gate. He also likely sent riders ahead to Helgen to alert the Imperial troops stationed there what was coming towards them. This could explain why the convoy was so reduced in size when you (the PC) wake up whilst heading towards Helgen and why the remaining legionnaires seem on edge ("Shut up, back there!"). Note also that the path you are on leads away from the Fort Neugard area (and the border gate) along one of the auxiliary roads. Also, the attitude of the Imperial Captain overseeing the execution ("Forget the list, he goes to the block.") becomes a little more understandable (not forgivable, just understandable) when you realize she probably had less than an hour's warning that the ranking general of the Imperial forces in Skyrim, along with Imperial Enemy Number One were on the way, and she had only that much time to arrange a mass execution. In her place, I certainly would have been on edge.

 

Elenwen, keeping tabs on the convoy (by magical means most likely) realized that Tullius was on to her and that she couldn't simply confront the convoy now (especially with an Imperial force between her Justicars and the convoy) rushed to Helgen, most likely deducing (correctly) what Tullius intended. Or maybe she didn't even suspect what was going to happen at Helgen. Regardless, her only chance to keep Ulfric "in play" now was to try to deal with Tullius at Helgen. You, as the PC, saw the confrontation between Tullius and Elenwen (and it certainly looked like a confrontation.) Tullius was clearly pissed by the time you're marched off the wagons and determined to quickly "put down" the rebellion. The rest you know.

 

Finally, as to the topic of what happens to the LDB after his confrontation with Miraak -well, there's lots of folks who have pointed out (correctly, IMO) that whatever happens in TES V, the LDB won't be specifically mentioned (at least in any more detail than "The hero of Kvatch") because that's the only way Bethesda can set things up for TES VI without having a lot of historical baggage to deal with. And that's as it should be.

 

However, on a strictly personal basis, there's a LOT that happens to MY LDB after the events of Dragonborn. Don't bother telling me "You're wrong because (reasons)". Each and every one of us plays (and will play) this game and write OUR OWN history into it. I've got my own version of what happens between my LDB and Mora-squid. It isn't to either of our liking, but lets just say things work out for me a bit better than they did for Miraak. I go on to do a lot of other quests (mods) and tend to write my own "epilogue" based on those adventures. I think I've gone over this elsewhere -maybe even here somewhere back in this monster thread (honestly, I never realized how long this would go on...) But my point is: No matter what the "official" version of the game says, this is YOUR game now. YOUR story -and no one can tell you what will happen to you in your version of Skyrim. Want to go with the Stormcloaks and drive out the Empire, then the Thalmor? Fine. Go with the Empire, get Balgruff crowned as high-king and restore Skyrim as a staunch Imperial ally/province? Done. Be High-King yourself? Go for it. (Actually, there's a mod for that...)

 

Doesn't matter what the "official" history will be. This is your story. Make of it what you will.

[kittybrod]

Finally, as to the topic of what happens to the LDB after his confrontation with Miraak -well, there's lots of folks who have pointed out (correctly, IMO) that whatever happens in TES V, the LDB won't be specifically mentioned (at least in any more detail than "The hero of Kvatch") because that's the only way Bethesda can set things up for TES VI without having a lot of historical baggage to deal with. And that's as it should be.

Truthfully I don't really have much to say on this topic as I have only played through once as an imperial. I will say that I do not think that in the long run, Ulfric could pull Skyrim together enough to defeat the Thalmor, Sure everyone would probably go against them, but there is a huge difference between thousands of people working individually or in small groups to defeat an enemy and a coordinated effort of that same thousands of people working to defeat the enemy.

 

However, I wanted to say I completely agree with the quote. I have played another game, Deus Ex. In that game you could choose 1 of three endings. Fine, choose the one that most aligned with your character in that playthrough. However, when they brought out Deus Ex 2, the developers didn't want to have to bother with making three beginnings or 3 different games or even choosing one ending. So they made it so ALL THREE ENDINGS HAPPENED. (I am still a bit miffed about that) If you choose one of them, then a second probably would have happened anyways due to what you do in that first ending, but having all three endings happening in the second game made all the characterization you did in the first moot because all through the second game I was thinking: JC wouldn't have done that.. (it also didn't help they made JC Denton, the PC in the first game, an NPC in the second)

 

I am glad Bethesda didn't go that route. Sure it would be interesting to see more about the heroes and and how they affected history, BUT, with the way it is now, about the only thing we can be guaranteed is that the main points of the previous games happened, and if the heroes did do anything else, they were working behind the scenes.

[Elimc]

@leddbate

 

Titus mede doesnt say thst his death is necessary for the empire to continue. He just says thwt his reath is unavoidable. (While he is 1 on 1 with the best assasin)

 

Also, while your explanation of the start of the game could be true, it is too nuch guesswork to work as a good argument.

[MidbossVyers]

Thing is, emperors throughout history have spun their circumstances to make it seem like it was their plan all along, regardless of whether or not it actually is. For example, I keep mentioning this, but the "final showdown" with Mede at the end of the Dark Brotherhood almost mirrors the "final showdown" between Nameless and the King of Qin at the end of the movie, Hero. Both Mede and Qin say that they will die with dignity without fighting back. In Hero, Nameless decided to show Qin mercy and walk away. Qin ordered Nameless to be perforated with arrows from the back. Being genre-savvy after watching this movie, I killed Emperor Mede without remorse.

[Lachdonin]

Thing is, emperors throughout history have spun their circumstances to make it seem like it was their plan all along, regardless of whether or not it actually is. For example, I keep mentioning this, but the "final showdown" with Mede at the end of the Dark Brotherhood almost mirrors the "final showdown" between Nameless and the King of Qin at the end of the movie, Hero. Both Mede and Qin say that they will die with dignity without fighting back. In Hero, Nameless decided to show Qin mercy and walk away. Qin ordered Nameless to be perforated with arrows from the back. Being genre-savvy after watching this movie, I killed Emperor Mede without remorse.

Thats all well and good, if that last encounter on the Kateriah was all the context one had. But there's a lot more involved in the questline than just that. Not only is the Emperor and the Penitus Oculatus aware of the incomming assassination, but the Emperor directly dissuaded the Penitus Pculatus from interfering. And this was knowing the weakness of the Brotherhood, which the Penotus Ocuatus was more than capable of wiping out once and for all.

 

Then there's the misinformation about the Emperor's visit. Mottiere says it's for hos cousin's wedding, but the Emperor arrives well after his cousin has been assassinated (at her wedding). They then use a chef that no one knows the identity of, when there's knowledge of an attempt on the Emperors life? And no one takes the time to get the Emperor out of Skyrim, as a precaution, while the Sanctuary is being attacked?

 

No, the Emperor hands too much to the Brotherhood to not be aware what's going on.

[MidbossVyers]

I love how, no matter which side of the debate you are on, most people here are sane and rational. Someone on YouTube cited the fact that the high elves in Windhelm are generally better off than the dark elves as "proof" that Ulfric is a Thalmor agent. Yes, I checked to confirm that "agent" was not a typo for "asset". This is so ridiculous that I literally have no way to respond but stare in disbelief.

[CaptainPatch]

This is so ridiculous that I literally have no way to respond but stare in disbelief.

Laughter. Laughter is the best medicine when confronted by absurdity.