117649AR Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 As far as I'm aware, it's because those who achieve CHIM are outside of the normal cycle, and are free to achieve Amaranth. I believe Lorkhan's goal was to eventually have every individual achieve Amaranth, dreaming up their own realities. Potentially infinite Amaranths, and potentially infinite dreams, considering the fact that within those new dreams individuals can also achieve CHIM and Amaranth themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The ultimate freedom and potentially endless existance for all seemed to be his goal (for the most part). Chaos in the infinite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) First of all: Wow, this is still going on. Or was fairly recently. Second: wait, so it's actually Numidium that blows up Nirn? On its own? I'd kind of figured that either it was just sort of the "impact" of its return that caused the damage, or the Thalmor got control of it somehow. But I guess it's the Dwemer consciousness? What happened to Talos; I thought he was piloting the thing? Also, from what I've learned, it looks like Lorkhan created Mundus in order to let everybody become mortal and then achieve CHIM, resulting in (I think) Amaranth? I guess? But...then the question becomes why, since it looks like that would just create a new dream-cycle.For the first... It seems to be a different Numidium, one f that is fully opperational. Keep in mind that TES contains many timelines. That ls part of the whole Hero thing. The Scrolls contain many versions of the same events, and in.one, the Numidium is powered by the Heart of Lorkhan and fully functioning. The generall opinion is that this particular Numidium is still fighting the siege of Alinor, and will finish or he drawn out of that timeline by the Thalmor, causing Landfall. It will not, technically, be the same Nimidium that blew up in the Iliac Bay. As for the second... The dream must go on, lest the Dreamer remember the Crime. Edited February 28, 2015 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kestrellius Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 What...what does that mean? What Crime? Yeah I thought Landfall!Numidium was one that was timewarped out of the seige of Alinor, right? And wound up stuck in pocket dimensions for ages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 What...what does that mean? What Crime?The Dreamer murdered someone they loved, and being unable to deal with their own crime, retreated into an ever seeping psychosis represented by a sequential dream state. Yeah I thought Landfall!Numidium was one that was timewarped out of the seige of Alinor, right? And wound up stuck in pocket dimensions for ages?Not really time warped out... More of another reflection of the same thing. When Tiber Septim activated the Numidium to attack Alinor, he created a Dragon Break (because that's what the Numidium does) and caused the timeline to branch. Apparently, in some of these timelines, the siege of Alinor is ongoing, and there are mages frozen in crystal around Alinor that continue to fight in alternate timelines. At some point, for unknown reasons (the Thalmor are assumed to be responsible, but we don't know for sure) one of the Numidiums in these alternate timeline becomes complete, not just the half-powered golem Talos used, and either gets pulled into Tamriel prime or just goes about annihilating timelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBizkit Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I skipped Oblivion but even Dagoth Ur, the main villain in Morrowind, has "redeeming qualities" and a somewhat "reasonable" or "understandable" goal. Plus, the part where he asks you questions and answers yours conveys a sense of honour on his part. The Thalmor in Skyrim on the other hand are potrayed as complete jerks with no redeeming quality whatsoever. Every one of them is arrogant and condescending. Even the guards at the embassy with their "I'm sorry, sir but I'm on duty" pretty much convey something like "I acknowledge that you must be somewhat important since you are at this party, but I still don't need to talk to you". As for their ultimate goals and all the "they have suffered at the hands of men". That may be, it probably is the case but still, in Skyrim the THalmor are not portrayed as ambivalent but as plain villains. That is why it would definately be very interesting to have a game taking place on the Summerset Isles so that we could see the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
117649AR Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Eh, if you read above, you'll see that their ultimate goal is the destruction of Mundus. So yes, they're not very sympathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monganfinn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Damm it´s been long! You have to see the Thalmor from a different angle:in their opinion they have the grand goal to achieve immortality. Which would benefit everyone and is more or less also the will of their gods/ancestors, as Auri-El told them to regain their Et´ada state, however now man comes along and their very existence makes it impossible for you to achieve said goal, furthermore those crude monkeys were allies of the criminal Lorkhan and in former times slaughtered many far more civilized elven nations.In the eyes of the Thalmor humanity are merely upstarts and vile mutations and as they don´t acknoledge/know of CHIM they also have nothing to strive for that would require mortality.And after all if they would succeed none of those humans would ever have to die as they would simply have never existed.As such how can the Thalmor be anything but condescending to humans, as long as they really believe this.And thus why should they take into consideration the opinions of beings that in their opinion only exists to keep them from their liberation? Many call Ulfric racist but the Thalmor humanity as something that should have never even existed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
117649AR Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Damm it´s been long! You have to see the Thalmor from a different angle:in their opinion they have the grand goal to achieve immortality. Which would benefit everyone and is more or less also the will of their gods/ancestors, as Auri-El told them to regain their Et´ada state, however now man comes along and their very existence makes it impossible for you to achieve said goal, furthermore those crude monkeys were allies of the criminal Lorkhan and in former times slaughtered many far more civilized elven nations.In the eyes of the Thalmor humanity are merely upstarts and vile mutations and as they don´t acknoledge/know of CHIM they also have nothing to strive for that would require mortality.And after all if they would succeed none of those humans would ever have to die as they would simply have never existed.As such how can the Thalmor be anything but condescending to humans, as long as they really believe this.And thus why should they take into consideration the opinions of beings that in their opinion only exists to keep them from their liberation? Many call Ulfric racist but the Thalmor humanity as something that should have never even existed!If you're speaking from a Thalmor perspective, then yes, their goal is noble. However, we as outside observers have the luxury of having a more complete view of the universe; the Thalmor view is inherently biased, formed from an incomplete understanding of creation, and ultimately monstrous from a moral standpoint. No one living knows or remembers what being et'Ada entailed or was like. The Thalmor only assume that it was this perfect state of paradise-like bliss. As for Auriel? He is literally an embodiment of elven views, as elven beliefs mythopoeically shed him from the Aka-Tusk. His word is just as biased as theirs, as his word is shaped by theirs. The Thalmor would strip all the living mer of Nirn of their mortal lives on the assumption that their former existence was better, without care for what the rest of the Altmer and all the other races of mer/mer descendents think about it. Even among the Thalmor, it's very unlikely that more than a select few in positions of power would know the true endgame. Among the other races of mer, the "material prison" isn't a prison at all. They would also completely erase man from existence, equivalent to genocide. Morally abhorrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riprock Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 From what I see, the Thalmor are extremists within the Aldmeri Dominion who wish to right ancient wrongs by punishing Man in the present for the sins of their great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather's great grandfathers. Hardly noble, and any "we're avenging our people" pathos is necessarily lost on anyone that didn't do much except to sin by being born Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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