What do you want in a new overhaul mod?

[Mattiewagg]

 

Ya' know, wouldn't it be interesting to have an overhaul that introduced the old TES classes...

We dont need mods for things that are already in our heads.

If you want to play a thief class , just roleplay and NEVER go OoC. Its simple, no mods needed. :smile:

 

I dont know where to start....

 

As for overhauls, i want something that takes away the "arcade hack'n'slay feel". Dont hate me but Skyrim has barely any RPG elements.

Skyrims melee combat feels like unreal tournament...with swords. I love RPGs and i love to play warriors with huge weapons. Skyrim ruined that for me.

Who ever played Dark Souls....knows how a combat system has to play out :smile:.

 

The crime system also needs a good change. You kill 10 people, pay some gold and its fine? That just nonesene to me. The crime system is so superficial.

My elf mage is pretty much a mass murderer. I should lose my house in Whiterun and also the Thane title. Or even get banned from the whole Whiterun Hold, maybe even more.

The fact the people still act normal after i killed 10 people in the middle of Whiterun just blows my mind. And how the hell do the guards in Winterhold know that the bread in my inventory is stronen?

 

At the moment i'm playing with SkyRe and so far its okay. I'm playing a mage and it was fine for most parts.

But now i am well geared and got destruction magic up to 120. 95% of all enemies die with just one cast. I play on legendary. This takes away the fun, because i love hard games.

Destruction magic need rebalance and rescaling.

 

Another thing is Robes vs Light Armor on a mage...there's no need to wear robes.

With light armor my mage has more defence (i can take 2 arrows now), get EXP from wearing light armor (slightly faster leveling), and more exposure protection (Frostfall).

And with Robes...sure there's dreamcloth but the extra stuff from enchanting is not worth the pain.

 

So far i can only talk about SkyRe and Mages, thats what i play at the moment.

I made my game as hard and curel but also as realistic as possible. But still there are flaws. The dragon AI is just brainless! Archers seem to have aimbots and one shot me. But i rather take 15 tries to clear a bandit camp then just breeze through it.

 

This is what came up straight in my head...sure thereÄs more but its enough for now.

 

The thing is that SkyRe is a lot less difficult then Requiem, which sounds like what you're looking for. I think it's harder to find something in between the two - difficult, but not impossible, with the fun of SkyRe but the balance and some of the hardcoreness of Requiem.

[FinalHazard]

 

 

Ya' know, wouldn't it be interesting to have an overhaul that introduced the old TES classes...

We dont need mods for things that are already in our heads.

If you want to play a thief class , just roleplay and NEVER go OoC. Its simple, no mods needed. :smile:

 

I dont know where to start....

 

As for overhauls, i want something that takes away the "arcade hack'n'slay feel". Dont hate me but Skyrim has barely any RPG elements.

Skyrims melee combat feels like unreal tournament...with swords. I love RPGs and i love to play warriors with huge weapons. Skyrim ruined that for me.

Who ever played Dark Souls....knows how a combat system has to play out :smile:.

 

The crime system also needs a good change. You kill 10 people, pay some gold and its fine? That just nonesene to me. The crime system is so superficial.

My elf mage is pretty much a mass murderer. I should lose my house in Whiterun and also the Thane title. Or even get banned from the whole Whiterun Hold, maybe even more.

The fact the people still act normal after i killed 10 people in the middle of Whiterun just blows my mind. And how the hell do the guards in Winterhold know that the bread in my inventory is stronen?

 

At the moment i'm playing with SkyRe and so far its okay. I'm playing a mage and it was fine for most parts.

But now i am well geared and got destruction magic up to 120. 95% of all enemies die with just one cast. I play on legendary. This takes away the fun, because i love hard games.

Destruction magic need rebalance and rescaling.

 

Another thing is Robes vs Light Armor on a mage...there's no need to wear robes.

With light armor my mage has more defence (i can take 2 arrows now), get EXP from wearing light armor (slightly faster leveling), and more exposure protection (Frostfall).

And with Robes...sure there's dreamcloth but the extra stuff from enchanting is not worth the pain.

 

So far i can only talk about SkyRe and Mages, thats what i play at the moment.

I made my game as hard and curel but also as realistic as possible. But still there are flaws. The dragon AI is just brainless! Archers seem to have aimbots and one shot me. But i rather take 15 tries to clear a bandit camp then just breeze through it.

 

This is what came up straight in my head...sure thereÄs more but its enough for now.

 

The thing is that SkyRe is a lot less difficult then Requiem, which sounds like what you're looking for. I think it's harder to find something in between the two - difficult, but not impossible, with the fun of SkyRe but the balance and some of the hardcoreness of Requiem.

 

I have yet to play Requiem.

But my current mod setup with SkyRe is really hardcore and punishing. If i make a mistake, i pay with my life.

If i walk blind into a mudcrab, it will mostly kill me in 2-3 hits, due to the insane scaling.

I will try Requiem on my next Skyrim RP to see what fits my playstyle better.

[Arrogancy]

So in SkyRe one of the big benefits of dreamcloth is that if you use it and the mage armor perks you can reach the armor cap without wearing armor.

 

But yes, I agree, the damages/resistances are not balanced very well in either game. Worry not! My spreadsheet has dedicated sections devoted to "how many hits should enemies take to kill" in order to ensure that, while you will become powerful, combat (against appropriate-level foes) will remain interesting! As for robes, there will be real spellcasting penalties for armor in order for you to have a reason to wear robes. (Also you won't be able to change armor in combat). Perks, of course, will eliminate this penalty for light armor, and mitigate it for heavy.

 

The crime feedback is a very good - I hadn't thought about that, but you're absolutely right. I'll take a look into what I might be able to do.

[Mattiewagg]

So in SkyRe one of the big benefits of dreamcloth is that if you use it and the mage armor perks you can reach the armor cap without wearing armor.

 

But yes, I agree, the damages/resistances are not balanced very well in either game. Worry not! My spreadsheet has dedicated sections devoted to "how many hits should enemies take to kill" in order to ensure that, while you will become powerful, combat (against appropriate-level foes) will remain interesting! As for robes, there will be real spellcasting penalties for armor in order for you to have a reason to wear robes. (Also you won't be able to change armor in combat). Perks, of course, will eliminate this penalty for light armor, and mitigate it for heavy.

 

The crime feedback is a very good - I hadn't thought about that, but you're absolutely right. I'll take a look into what I might be able to do.

I like your spreadsheet. It's very extensive :biggrin:

[EnaiSiaion]

I only want an overhaul that doesn't completely suck to make compatibility patches for.

 

Also you may be too late actually. I dropped NIRN last year because everyone was already using SkyRe. SPERG hasn't gotten anywhere either because it came after the big two.

[Mattiewagg]

I only want an overhaul that doesn't completely suck to make compatibility patches for.

 

Also you may be too late actually. I dropped NIRN last year because everyone was already using SkyRe. SPERG hasn't gotten anywhere either because it came after the big two.

While views and endorsements are great for a lot of reasons, like making you feel good about yourself and spreading word of the mod, it would be amazing to see an actually fleshed out overhaul that wasn't SkyRe or Requiem. While they take an incredible amount of work and that's why there aren't many, it would still be great.

 

Any thoughts on a name? It might be a bit early, but a good name is... Good.

[FinalHazard]

"how many hits should enemies take to kill" or in general Damage // Armor balancing is one hell of a task.

Every player got a different taste and it's impossible to please all of them.

 

Let me try to write down my thoughts....

Heavy armor greatly reduces the damage of arrows and thats fine.

But what about 1h edged weapons (daggers, swords)?

One handed slashing weapons (daggers and swords only) should see the same damage reduction on heavy armor then arrows do.

Skyrim has no stabbing animation! So how much should slashing with a dagger or sword against full heavy armor do?

 

I am no middle age weapons scientist or something like that but a dagger or sword can not pierce heavy armor.

So giving 1h daggers and swords the same damage reduction as arrows vs heavy armor would be realistic

On the other hand increase the damage of blunt weapons against heavy armor.

Blunt weapons are made to cause injuries through plate armor.

 

I left out 1h axes in particular. I know an axe is an edged weapon. An axe does concentrates its force into the axe head.

This is due to the heavy weight of the axe head. Becaus of thats its possible to convert much more power into an attack.

Making it possible to damage heavy armor more then daggers and swords do.

 

This only covers 1h melee damage vs heavy armor. This is just my basic thought and there's so much more.

This is the first time someone actually asked what i like or want.

Sadly i have no knowledge how to make a mod or something like that.

I cant really help you, except for some basic inspiration, i'm sorry.

[Mattiewagg]

You could use scripts and keywords for that, though there's probably a better way.

[Arrogancy]

"how many hits should enemies take to kill" or in general Damage // Armor balancing is one hell of a task.

Every player got a different taste and it's impossible to please all of them.

I'm not trying to please everyone.

 

Figuring out how many hits enemies should take to kill is not hard. Bosses should be long combats and take lots of hits to kill. Anything you fight en masse should take less than five hits to kill unless it's basically meant as a boss encounter. Things you duel with that aren't bosses should take less than ten. From there you can just test. Once you know roughly what the hit numbers are you just adjust all the other values. I've got a math degree and a bunch of spreadsheets. Easy.

 

Numerically solving a set of differential equations to model the inside of a star - THAT is hard.

[Doomsdayman]

After looking over your spreadsheet, I have to say I'm excited; you've clearly actually spent the time to think about the balance problems in the Vanilla system. Also excellent sense of humor, especially for a mathematician ;)

So my personal desires?

Perks and Skills:

More 'role-play' and realism whilst keeping Vanilla's freedom of choice: You can still viably specialize in whatever weird combinations suit your character; you just can't master all of them. There's a character in the Interesting NPCs mod (whose name I forget) who is a smiting mage. I love that as an idea for a character. Yet the Dragonborn being a "heavy armored sneaky battlemage master smith alchemist enchanter" has always been immersion breaking for me. This problem is especially true of the crafting skills, is it just me or is it ridiculous the PC can master one of those crafts so easily, let alone all three? So I refuse to level outside the "skill set" I decide my character possesses, and it's annoying that other overhauls tend to (perhaps inadvertent) penalize you for this. Look at the Requiem's guides section, players often suggest grinding X skill to help with the brutal start, well what if my character doesn't like X? Why am I being punished for not playing one of the builds the author had in mind when designing the mod? (Poor design imo)

In game terms...
Better balance between the trees (e.g. block is not insanely strong to the point of being essential, a-la SkyRe).
Larger and deeper perk trees whose branches really encourage a player to define their character.

Perks on said trees that feel both powerful AND limiting/specific. It would be great if choosing a perk felt like a decision, a trade-off that would help define your character's strengths and weaknesses.
Skills that do not offer much reward to player for just grinding levels in them. For example having no effect beyond unlocking perks, or at least no effect without perks.

Combat:

More variation in the options the player has DURING combat, and better clarity in those options. Right now a melee character has only 6 options in combat, which are really only 4 options. 1.) Attack-Swing, Bash, or Power Swing 2.) Block 3.) Run 4.) Switch to another modality. An archer has 3 options, 1.) Attack/Shoot 2.)Run 3.) Switch. Mages are offered a fair amount of choice, but (since there is very little difference in the impact most spells have) one can boil their options down to 1.) Deal damage 2.) Buff/healing allies/self 3.) Summon creature 4.) Place Trap/Rune 5.)Run 6.) Switch

Also combat should seem fair and balanced. By fair I mean the player should feel like it was a conscious mistake on their part that caused a death. No insta-death, whether from an eagle-eyed snipers hiding in a bush, a bear sneak attack, or a random dragon attack (Seriously please try to avoid this, it's what killed Requiem for me). By balanced I mean the player should never feel they are doomed to die, nor destined to win against enemies of equivalent level; difficulty might vary based on build and enemy but victory and defeat are ideally always possible. [Ok so in an open world this is near impossible to achieve, but it seems a nice goal to aim for]

In game terms:

Better clarity in the strengths/weaknesses of weapons. Spells should feel more unique so that choosing one over another is not just a matter of which color/animation you prefer. If you're really clever removing/decreasing spell/material obsolescence would be a nice touch
Some way to give more choice to melee/archer types IN COMBAT. Example: More 'moves' for archer types and melee type, like feints, crippling shots, disarms, traps. Very hard to implement admittedly....

World:

Loot -More realism in the leveled lists. Bandits should not walk around in ebony, that's just ridiculous.
Enemy variation. One of my favorite things Requiem does right; enemy types really do feel unique and discovering their weaknesses is a puzzle to solve.
Watch economy. Lots of great overhaul out there already; I only mention it because changes to loot, crafting, and item value to the player all will effect the 'economy' the player experiences.

Alright I've droned on long enough. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope you may be inspired by my ranting in some way, and I wish you all the best with this mod!